My fantasy
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 78
Pigtails,
At the recommendation of someone here at SR, I just finished reading a book that addresses this very subject or returning to "normal" drinking. The book is called "The Easy Way to Stop Drinking," by Allen Carr. The book makes a great argument about why it would make no sense to attempt to return to "normal" drinking. It also does a great job of explaining why we should feel "relieved" for giving up alcohol, rather than "deprived." The book's approach definitely differs from AA, so you will want to keep an open mind if you read it. I, personally, found the book to be very insightful. You may want to check it out.
At the recommendation of someone here at SR, I just finished reading a book that addresses this very subject or returning to "normal" drinking. The book is called "The Easy Way to Stop Drinking," by Allen Carr. The book makes a great argument about why it would make no sense to attempt to return to "normal" drinking. It also does a great job of explaining why we should feel "relieved" for giving up alcohol, rather than "deprived." The book's approach definitely differs from AA, so you will want to keep an open mind if you read it. I, personally, found the book to be very insightful. You may want to check it out.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Yeeaahhh....I used to think about drinking when I wasn't drinking. Wasn't long before I was drinking again. I stopped drinking at home and would just have 'a drink' if we went out for dinner. Well, we were going out to dinner every other night. LOL Then I thought, well, if I just drink wine coolers...it's not really drinking, right? Wrong. After about (3) 4packs I was sucking whiskey again.
For me...I don't think about 'how nice it would be' to just have one. It's not nice and I couldn't have just one. It makes me drunk, it makes me sick, it makes my family miserable, it makes me do stupid stuff, say stupid stuff and be a stupid person. It makes me feel like I could die. I spent too much money, I spent too much time thinking and planning. I spent too much time giving everyone around me heartache. Why the h3ll would I contemplate drinking? Just doesn't make sense at this point of my life.
For me...I don't think about 'how nice it would be' to just have one. It's not nice and I couldn't have just one. It makes me drunk, it makes me sick, it makes my family miserable, it makes me do stupid stuff, say stupid stuff and be a stupid person. It makes me feel like I could die. I spent too much money, I spent too much time thinking and planning. I spent too much time giving everyone around me heartache. Why the h3ll would I contemplate drinking? Just doesn't make sense at this point of my life.
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When I got sober I did it in part by retraining my brain to view alcohol as a foul poison that tastes awful and makes me feel awful, even just one sip. So getting drunk on special occasions is completely at Odds with how I view alcohol.
The only reason I can forswear ever drinking again is if I decide to kill myself.
P.s. - the special occasions would start as your sisters wedding, progress to holidays, then Saturday's and then guess what? I wOke up this morning...that's a special occasion
The only reason I can forswear ever drinking again is if I decide to kill myself.
P.s. - the special occasions would start as your sisters wedding, progress to holidays, then Saturday's and then guess what? I wOke up this morning...that's a special occasion
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,193
Originally Posted by Dee74 
when I used to daydream about 'normal drinking' it was pretty much like how you described it pigtails - I'd always reserve the right to have a 'blow out' - because everyone gets drunk sometimes right?
I struggled with acceptance for 20 years.
In the end I had to sit myself down and say:
Dee, you're not like everyone else - alcohol affects you differently.
Everyone else takes a drink - you take a week off.
Every time you drink, you change. It doesn't matter what kind of drink it is, or how long it is between drinks, or what kind of occasion it is - alcohol and you have a toxic relationship and you always will.
If you want the kind of life you want, and if you want to be the person you want to be, you can't drink.
You can have one...or the other...but not both.
that other Dee's pretty smart
D
I struggled with acceptance for 20 years.
In the end I had to sit myself down and say:
Dee, you're not like everyone else - alcohol affects you differently.
Everyone else takes a drink - you take a week off.
Every time you drink, you change. It doesn't matter what kind of drink it is, or how long it is between drinks, or what kind of occasion it is - alcohol and you have a toxic relationship and you always will.
If you want the kind of life you want, and if you want to be the person you want to be, you can't drink.
You can have one...or the other...but not both.
that other Dee's pretty smart
D
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 226
Pigtails I'm not going to lecture you because I am hardly a gleaning image of sobriety, but, it was this kind of thinking that lead me to relapse.
I call it the "AHHH F IT" relapse because I know I'm going to get drunk and just do it anyways. I got drunk at my sister's wedding after 5 months thinking I would just get drunk at only "special" functions. It just led me back to my biweekly four day binges. Try to remember the reason you came here.
I call it the "AHHH F IT" relapse because I know I'm going to get drunk and just do it anyways. I got drunk at my sister's wedding after 5 months thinking I would just get drunk at only "special" functions. It just led me back to my biweekly four day binges. Try to remember the reason you came here.
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Originally Posted by doggonecarl
Hypothetically speaking, perhaps you can have a "reverse intervention" where you gather all your friends and family together and explain to them your problem with drinking, what you are trying to accomplish, and beg them to support you. And if they don't support you fully, tell them that you will establish boundaries that could possibly exclude them.
Sounds extreme, but families often take drastic measures to convince us alcoholics of our problems. Why not take similar measures if friends and family pose a threat to our recovery?
I don't know what conversations you have had with your boyfriend, but I wonder why he'd try to undermine you like that, telling you that you don't have a problem. Is your recovery cramping his style?
Sounds extreme, but families often take drastic measures to convince us alcoholics of our problems. Why not take similar measures if friends and family pose a threat to our recovery?
I don't know what conversations you have had with your boyfriend, but I wonder why he'd try to undermine you like that, telling you that you don't have a problem. Is your recovery cramping his style?
It's incredibly confusing because I start to wonder how I think I have this big problem, and everyone close to me doesn't think so. I know I'm good at being sneaky and having a double life, but even those I let in to pretty much everything (namely my boyfriend and sister) don't think I have a problem worth quitting over.
I know if I were to tell my mom, she would agree with me and support me. Her father was an alcoholic, she doesn't drink anything at all, and she hates when the rest of us do. And my brother maybe, who stopped drinking over a year ago. Maybe I'm just talking to the wrong people. My mom and brother live far away and aren't part of my daily life, and my mom has many issues of her own, but, maybe I should try using them for support.
My boyfriend... I don't know. :-/ I know he enjoys drinking, sometimes quite a lot, sometimes way too much. I know he would prefer it if I sometimes got drunk with him but he also wants to support me in whatever I want. I try not to get enmeshed in his issues with alcohol because I know I had/have my own journey to follow. But it is hard to be sober with a boyfriend who likes to drink. Because yeah I liked to drink too. Now I don't but that initial tie is still there. It's hard to sever.
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Originally Posted by UofI2008
Pigtails I'm not going to lecture you because I am hardly a gleaning image of sobriety, but, it was this kind of thinking that lead me to relapse.
I call it the "AHHH F IT" relapse because I know I'm going to get drunk and just do it anyways. I got drunk at my sister's wedding after 5 months thinking I would just get drunk at only "special" functions. It just led me back to my biweekly four day binges. Try to remember the reason you came here.
I call it the "AHHH F IT" relapse because I know I'm going to get drunk and just do it anyways. I got drunk at my sister's wedding after 5 months thinking I would just get drunk at only "special" functions. It just led me back to my biweekly four day binges. Try to remember the reason you came here.
Dieting, working out, being discliplined at work -- if I'm on, I'm on, and if I'm off, I'm way off. With most areas of my life I am aiming for moderation and balance. But with drinking, I think it has to be the "nothing" part of all or nothing. I completely hear what you're saying and I thank you for it.
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Originally Posted by Jester1025
Pigtails,
At the recommendation of someone here at SR, I just finished reading a book that addresses this very subject or returning to "normal" drinking. The book is called "The Easy Way to Stop Drinking," by Allen Carr. The book makes a great argument about why it would make no sense to attempt to return to "normal" drinking. It also does a great job of explaining why we should feel "relieved" for giving up alcohol, rather than "deprived." The book's approach definitely differs from AA, so you will want to keep an open mind if you read it. I, personally, found the book to be very insightful. You may want to check it out.
At the recommendation of someone here at SR, I just finished reading a book that addresses this very subject or returning to "normal" drinking. The book is called "The Easy Way to Stop Drinking," by Allen Carr. The book makes a great argument about why it would make no sense to attempt to return to "normal" drinking. It also does a great job of explaining why we should feel "relieved" for giving up alcohol, rather than "deprived." The book's approach definitely differs from AA, so you will want to keep an open mind if you read it. I, personally, found the book to be very insightful. You may want to check it out.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,707
Just to reiterate what everyone else has said, it has taken me years to get here but I've finally realized that I am not physically capable of drinking for one night and leaving it at that. It is ALWAYS the beginning of a horrible downward spiral which ends with me sick, making bad choices, and hating myself. NOT worth the "just one night". Being able to remember those special events without embarrassment will be nice, too.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate New York
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Originally Posted by EmeraldRose
Yeeaahhh....I used to think about drinking when I wasn't drinking. Wasn't long before I was drinking again. I stopped drinking at home and would just have 'a drink' if we went out for dinner. Well, we were going out to dinner every other night. LOL Then I thought, well, if I just drink wine coolers...it's not really drinking, right? Wrong. After about (3) 4packs I was sucking whiskey again.
For me...I don't think about 'how nice it would be' to just have one. It's not nice and I couldn't have just one. It makes me drunk, it makes me sick, it makes my family miserable, it makes me do stupid stuff, say stupid stuff and be a stupid person. It makes me feel like I could die. I spent too much money, I spent too much time thinking and planning. I spent too much time giving everyone around me heartache. Why the h3ll would I contemplate drinking? Just doesn't make sense at this point of my life.
For me...I don't think about 'how nice it would be' to just have one. It's not nice and I couldn't have just one. It makes me drunk, it makes me sick, it makes my family miserable, it makes me do stupid stuff, say stupid stuff and be a stupid person. It makes me feel like I could die. I spent too much money, I spent too much time thinking and planning. I spent too much time giving everyone around me heartache. Why the h3ll would I contemplate drinking? Just doesn't make sense at this point of my life.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 694
I went into a store last night, this lady pops a six pack on the counter, I could see the cold liquid suds through the bottle and I thought ‘that looks good’, I would be satisfied with just a swallow, then I thought that I probably could drink just one out the pack, then if it was only a six pack and not a 12.
I quickly seen this pattern, although I wasn’t going to drink not even that first sip my thoughts were lining up in there old ways, ‘one sip’ to me would be a train wreck in my mind, but today I am still sober because I didnt take even a sip.
I quickly seen this pattern, although I wasn’t going to drink not even that first sip my thoughts were lining up in there old ways, ‘one sip’ to me would be a train wreck in my mind, but today I am still sober because I didnt take even a sip.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Special occasions...funny thing about those. They started out as few and far between in my mind. Over time my addicted voice took over and it was "oh, it's a random Tuesday at noon? That sounds special enough for me!"
For me all boundaries changed with alcohol... the special occasion drinking is exactly the same as all the other lies I told myself. I will only drink on special occasions, I will only drink on weekends, I will only drink after the kids go to bed, I will never drive drunk with my children in the car....the list goes on and on. The lines are drawn...then redrawn....redrawn...
I agree with LaFemme although I haven't read Carr's book in it's entirety. I do not look at alcohol at all in the same way I used to. There is NO occasion that would warrant drinking for me....be it happy or tragic. The idea of it completely grosses me out.
For me all boundaries changed with alcohol... the special occasion drinking is exactly the same as all the other lies I told myself. I will only drink on special occasions, I will only drink on weekends, I will only drink after the kids go to bed, I will never drive drunk with my children in the car....the list goes on and on. The lines are drawn...then redrawn....redrawn...
I agree with LaFemme although I haven't read Carr's book in it's entirety. I do not look at alcohol at all in the same way I used to. There is NO occasion that would warrant drinking for me....be it happy or tragic. The idea of it completely grosses me out.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montgomery AL
Posts: 507
Pigtails, it's not really up to anyone else to decide whether or not you're an alcoholic. Your boyfriend, friends and family, anyone who thinks "you're not that bad"....the only person who can decide if you've crossed that line into the mental, physical and spiritual disease of addiction is YOU. It would be great if everyone in our lives were understanding and supportive, but I've found that the only other people who can really understand me and what I go through/have gone through are other alcoholics or (to a lesser extent) "normies" who've had their lives affected by an alcoholic. That's why places like SR and AA are so important to me. I also think it's important not to compare my own personal "adventures" with others -- I've met so many alcoholics who were way worse off or better off than me when they finally decided they'd had enough. I've always been able to relate to any person with a desire to stop drinking as long as I listen for the similarities instead of the differences. Everyone has a different bottom and I'm glad yours hasn't been the ground floor.
--Fenris.
--Fenris.
Last edited by Fenris; 11-22-2011 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Ever wonder why it's so common that some alcoholics would try about anything at all to drink like a normal person?
It's often called the desperate experiment.
There are email mailing lists available to sign up and observe bad drunks trying hard to moderate and manage their drinking. They alternate between soaring determination and deep confusion when they again fail, having no idea why success in something so simple as just having a few now and then without getting drunk and sick is unavailable to them. It really is pretty terrible.
Glad it's not encouraged here on SR.
It's often called the desperate experiment.
There are email mailing lists available to sign up and observe bad drunks trying hard to moderate and manage their drinking. They alternate between soaring determination and deep confusion when they again fail, having no idea why success in something so simple as just having a few now and then without getting drunk and sick is unavailable to them. It really is pretty terrible.
Glad it's not encouraged here on SR.
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One important part of becoming sober, for me, is learning how to cope with being uncomfortable - sans Jack Daniels. Being a working musician I saw how certain social interactions and most industry events - without a doubt - drinking was almost required activity. From that spotlight I saw how drinking was definitely my preferred coping mechanism for life's more profoundly uncomfortable moments. Add to that, if I didn't drink my game just seemed 'off'. Hell, off is an understatement, my game/swag was non-existent without a buzz. I'd leaned on booze so much for so long, I completely forgot how to interact in certain situations without it.
I think alcoholics can experience a mourning process as we first begin to recognize that drinking normally is no longer an option. It becomes a kind of incessant sadness knowing we've lost the wall that 'normies' can lean on whenever they like. That grief is something that remains to our disadvantage until we learn ways to actually get comfortable in uncomfortable situations - without booze backing us up. Until we figure out how to do naturally what booze has done for us in the past, we feel handicapped, at least I certainly did. Thing is; most normal folks can walk through any stressful/anxious/excitable situation trusting alcohol to take the edge off and dial down worries and apprehensions. We can't have that anymore and it just bloody sucks.
Let's face it; in most societies the #1 ice-breaker for anything from a blind date to a business meeting is the ubiquitous 'getting together for drinks' scenario. We've all been conditioned in that way to some degree, whether it be a simple night out with friends or some elaborate New Years Eve party. As more sober days accumulated for me it got pretty obvious that not drinking would mean a constant battle, a struggle against that conditioned response, and that winning meant learning to live in THAT world without utilizing the one and only way I knew how to enjoy it. I was just high and dry while normal folks could make use of the 'happy' crutch.
Pigtails, the reason I bring this up is because I looked at sobriety in that light when I first came to realize drinking was no longer an option. Perhaps in some ways you are too. As a result of that initial perception of sobriety I began wishing and fantasizing all the things you are talking about here. On a good day I would daydream about a time when I could finally drink like everyone else. On a bad day I would hate life because it was so unfair that I couldn't get silly anymore. Functions were the worst. When they came up I'd panic at the thought of attending without my 'coping' mechanism. If and when I did attend and not drink I ended up walking around in some sort of stupified daze, feeling either angry or just socially ********. Friends would hang out and I'd feel so rotten that I couldn't truly join in. Then the memories kicked in. Remembering how fun it was to be off my face with my mates, and how life just wasn't the same anymore since I quit...
As I continued to believe sobriety was this never-ending battle, a constant call for structure, discipline, and responsibility, well that was exactly how I relapsed as many times as I did in the last decade. Every time I tried to quit, previous to my bottom, there came a point when I got sick and tired of being handicapped. As soon as I got fed up enough it was off to the liquor store for respite.
The kicker is that - at one point - I found that recovery wasn't a struggle at all. I guess that's what they call a moment of clarity. All of a sudden sobriety didn't mean I had to be stern, boring, or even responsible if I didn't want to be. I could be as silly as I wanted, party like it was 1999 every time, and booze had nothing to do with it. I found out that sobriety could live in complete opposition to the life of struggle and yearnings I had expected to live by NOT drinking. Long story short is I caught a glimpse of a reality that belittled every drinking fantasy I had ever envisioned.
Keep your focus on staying sober and on recovery. The veil will be lifted for you also. For some that clarity comes from a process like AA. For others using the techniques of AVRT as outlined in Rational Recovery helps. Some come to such a point on their own. I've heard Allen Carr's book is also worth a read, as mentioned in this thread a few times. Whatever your chosen method happens to morph into over time, as long as you continue focusing on sobriety, eventually it will hit you in the same exact spot it did for me. At that point you'll see that drinking was never the power supply you plugged up in order for good times, relaxation, and enjoyment to ensue. You were.
I think alcoholics can experience a mourning process as we first begin to recognize that drinking normally is no longer an option. It becomes a kind of incessant sadness knowing we've lost the wall that 'normies' can lean on whenever they like. That grief is something that remains to our disadvantage until we learn ways to actually get comfortable in uncomfortable situations - without booze backing us up. Until we figure out how to do naturally what booze has done for us in the past, we feel handicapped, at least I certainly did. Thing is; most normal folks can walk through any stressful/anxious/excitable situation trusting alcohol to take the edge off and dial down worries and apprehensions. We can't have that anymore and it just bloody sucks.
Let's face it; in most societies the #1 ice-breaker for anything from a blind date to a business meeting is the ubiquitous 'getting together for drinks' scenario. We've all been conditioned in that way to some degree, whether it be a simple night out with friends or some elaborate New Years Eve party. As more sober days accumulated for me it got pretty obvious that not drinking would mean a constant battle, a struggle against that conditioned response, and that winning meant learning to live in THAT world without utilizing the one and only way I knew how to enjoy it. I was just high and dry while normal folks could make use of the 'happy' crutch.
Pigtails, the reason I bring this up is because I looked at sobriety in that light when I first came to realize drinking was no longer an option. Perhaps in some ways you are too. As a result of that initial perception of sobriety I began wishing and fantasizing all the things you are talking about here. On a good day I would daydream about a time when I could finally drink like everyone else. On a bad day I would hate life because it was so unfair that I couldn't get silly anymore. Functions were the worst. When they came up I'd panic at the thought of attending without my 'coping' mechanism. If and when I did attend and not drink I ended up walking around in some sort of stupified daze, feeling either angry or just socially ********. Friends would hang out and I'd feel so rotten that I couldn't truly join in. Then the memories kicked in. Remembering how fun it was to be off my face with my mates, and how life just wasn't the same anymore since I quit...
As I continued to believe sobriety was this never-ending battle, a constant call for structure, discipline, and responsibility, well that was exactly how I relapsed as many times as I did in the last decade. Every time I tried to quit, previous to my bottom, there came a point when I got sick and tired of being handicapped. As soon as I got fed up enough it was off to the liquor store for respite.
The kicker is that - at one point - I found that recovery wasn't a struggle at all. I guess that's what they call a moment of clarity. All of a sudden sobriety didn't mean I had to be stern, boring, or even responsible if I didn't want to be. I could be as silly as I wanted, party like it was 1999 every time, and booze had nothing to do with it. I found out that sobriety could live in complete opposition to the life of struggle and yearnings I had expected to live by NOT drinking. Long story short is I caught a glimpse of a reality that belittled every drinking fantasy I had ever envisioned.
Keep your focus on staying sober and on recovery. The veil will be lifted for you also. For some that clarity comes from a process like AA. For others using the techniques of AVRT as outlined in Rational Recovery helps. Some come to such a point on their own. I've heard Allen Carr's book is also worth a read, as mentioned in this thread a few times. Whatever your chosen method happens to morph into over time, as long as you continue focusing on sobriety, eventually it will hit you in the same exact spot it did for me. At that point you'll see that drinking was never the power supply you plugged up in order for good times, relaxation, and enjoyment to ensue. You were.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Wow Binderdonedat...
all I can say is...right on!
BOOM. What powerful words. I feel the same way. Thanks for putting this in words so beautifully.
Originally Posted by binderdonedat
All of a sudden sobriety didn't mean I had to be stern, boring, or even responsible if I didn't want to be. I could be as silly as I wanted, party like it was 1999 every time, and booze had nothing to do with it.
Originally Posted by binderdonedat
At that point you'll see that drinking was never the power supply you plugged up in order for good times, relaxation, and enjoyment to ensue. You were.
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That fantasy makes perfect sense. You're an alcoholic. I think it's actually refreshing to not hear the old "I just love the taste" alibi (which I told myself many times).
My recovery is a dam that holds back a river of misery. If I allow the smallest opening, the slightest trickle, I will eventually be swept away in a torrent.
Besides, life got a lot more enjoyable when I let go of the fantasy of the occasional buzz. I'm not sacrificing anything. I'm not missing out on anything. Been there, done that, more times than anyone should. Like LaFemme, I find it a relief to not have to waste a second thinking about booze. I found obsessing over alcohol was tedious and exhausting, regardless of whether the next drink was a minute or a month away.
My recovery is a dam that holds back a river of misery. If I allow the smallest opening, the slightest trickle, I will eventually be swept away in a torrent.
Besides, life got a lot more enjoyable when I let go of the fantasy of the occasional buzz. I'm not sacrificing anything. I'm not missing out on anything. Been there, done that, more times than anyone should. Like LaFemme, I find it a relief to not have to waste a second thinking about booze. I found obsessing over alcohol was tedious and exhausting, regardless of whether the next drink was a minute or a month away.
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