Pigtails

I was just thinking this way today! Like, maybe I made bad life choices and haven't been giving my full effort, but I shouldn't blame alcohol.

WTH?! It's like Alcohol is arguing with me, saying "Don't blame me... these were all your decisions, and you can still have a good life if you change all these other things, but still drink me in moderation."

Sure, I need to evaluate all areas of my life and make big changes in order to be happy, but alcohol is a big part of that! Since I've realized that drinking only worsens my life, why in the world woudl I still want to drink?! I guess it's because I realize its one benefit: it allows me to escape, to self-medicate, to numb the pain. And one or two drinks socially won't do that! Sure, they might help me loosen up and relax, but soon I am wanting more.

So whenever Alcohol starts telling me that, I just tell Alcohol: I'm sorry but I have given you up because you are not good for me, at all. There is no reason to drink you! Any benefit is outweighed by the drawbacks. I have goals, which include getting to know myself sober and handling any situation-- even awkward social situations -- sober, so that knocks down the only potential "good" argument you had to offer me, which was loosening up in social situations. I'm going to have to learn how to do that--or just be myself--without you in the picture anymore.

I'm realizing what they mean when they say "cunning and baffling." My own mind deceives me, which is crazy to think about.

Dee74

I hope both you and Jim stick around Camille.

I spent years just trying to figure out how to be sober. It scared me. Drinking defined me.

I didn't want to be different, I didn't want to have to change...

I actually just wanted to be able to drink a few times a year and not 'go overboard'.
What I really wanted was those bad consequences that happened most times I drank to go away.

I wanted to be a normal drinker.

I had good periods where I didn't drink out of control, I even had periods where I didn't drink at all (record 8 weeks) but I always always returned to the self destructive all out drinking.

I drank for 20 years.

In the end, I had to accept that I'm not a normal drinker - alcohol changes me, and once I drink, I'm not in control of what happens anymore.

If it's a good night, it's down to luck, not me.

If I lose control when I drink, and my drinking has nearly destroyed my life and those I love, how can me drinking be a good thing?

Thats the experience I was speaking from.
It's what we do here, and what makes this place great.

You may read this and think I'm a pompous ass - & that's ok too - but I wouldn't be doing the folks in this forum a service if I didn't share my experience

D

BigJim

Oh I'm not going anywhere. I should be clear that since I decided to quit, I haven't once picked up a drink for the sake of drinking and I wouldn't typically drink at all if not for the sake of getting drunk. I have had several well timed drinks as a means of keeping Friends and Family at bay, not that they would give me a hard time, but I feel I need to start this journey on my own before I begin letting others know my full intentions. I will bring my loved ones in when the time is right, but I don't intend on taking the focus from a wedding or funeral for myself and my personal struggle.

I think the big difference is that I'm not choosing to drink because I want to drink and think I can master it, my experience has shown me this is not necessarily within the realm of my control. The one thing I can control is the pace with which I move down this path. Had I tried to make a big deal of it publicly, I'm quite certain the pressure would have driven me back. Nobody knows us the way we know ourselves, and only within ourselves can we draw up a winning plan of attack in this battle for our lives. Good luck to everyone.

Dee74

I hope you're right Jim.

D

BigJim

There is no one way that will work for everyone, each of our experiences apply to us and us alone. Some may feel that cold turkey is the only way to go, but this is absolutely the wrong path for some people just as an attempt at moderation is the absolute wrong path for others. AA works for many, but not all. Alcohol affects every culture that exists on the planet, there is not a "right" way to deal with it, only the way that works for the person who has made the decision to fight it.

I feel that what Camille was saying is that there seems to be a large group that feels there is only one way, and that any deviation from that is considered an incorrect approach. I can understand her frustration at the idea that stopping after a single drink is somehow considered less of a sucess than going on a complete binge, then re-committing to the plan. Sure, most of us would like to never pick up a drink again, but if it were that simple, none of us would be here now.

ACT10Npack

For me it comes down to if I'm happy or not. Getting drunk just does not make me happy. I general thinking I wish I could drink or I don't want to drink. Just want to feel happy and peaceful most of the time and alcohol just does not do that for me. Maybe in the future but now, I'm glad I feel good with myself.

BigJim

Exactly right Action. Many people think that drinking will make them happy again only to realize how unhappy they then become at the idea that they failed themselves and their loved ones by falling off. It hurts to know that after all of the work they put in, alcohol still had the power to reach their lips once again. I know that getting drunk will make me unhappy, so I avoid it. When I do decide to drink, it is with the knowledge that I am doing it by my own choice and without the intention of achieving inebriation or even a buzz. Considering my daily routine from less than a month ago, this makes me very happy. I feel I have taken a strong first step and will be well prepared when the time comes for my next one.

Dee74

We all have our own path to travel - it wouldn't have made any sense to me to travel someone else's path - every mistake and every success I had got me to where I am today....but I can't share anyone else's path but my own either

We obviously disagree Jim, but I really meant it when I said I hope you're right.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you. You're obviously committed to drinking a little, for whatever reasons, and nothing anyone can say here is going to change that.

I sincerely hope you'll come to me in 6 months time and tell me I was completely wrong, you didn't fall back into the same old traps, and you're doing well.

D

cuyootoo

The problem with drinking without getting drunk is that it's no fun unless it's dangerous. So what's the point of drinking then, because alcohol is certainly not nutritious.

BigJim

In this, I feel we agree completely. Just as you can acknowledge that it would not make sense for you to walk the path of another, so should it also be considered a mistake to expect all others to follow yours, mine or anyone's but their own. We are all trying to get to the same place, an as our starting points are different, so shall our paths differ. All we can do is share our personal experiences and hope they can help another in their journey. I consider you an important contributor here and I certainly did not intend to create any tension, I am merely sharing my opinion regarding my own personal journey.

michelle01

I feel sad for those who get in these patterns more than anything else. When I was doing this for a year or so I wasn't very happy, in fact became quite disillusioned, and I recognize that same tone in other posts on these boards. It makes me sad because I remember how frustrating it was to be in that place. I'm so glad I stuck with it though so that I could see how sobriety really does work. So I am not judging anyone here. Most of us here have made all the mistakes ourselves, when we are cautioning others.

It'd be nice if moderation could work, but I've seen that happen in very few cases in any genuine sense. More often the hope for moderation seemed to end in frustration and very real pain/anguish. I know it's just not possible for me.

BigJim

I agree cuyootoo, and I want to again reiterate that I did not have a drink for the fun of it or for the sake of getting drunk. I made a premeditated decision based on my situation and followed through exactly as I planned. This exercise in personal control was important to me and will allow me (in my opinion) to go into my next step of complete abstinence with more strength and conviction. I am in no way recommending anyone else proceed by any method other than what they feel will work best for them. Just a few weeks ago I drank day and night every day for the sole purpose of getting drunk, and I refuse to let the profound change I've experienced to be considered a failure by anyone's standards. Maybe the fact that so many feel there is only one way to approach recovery is the reason so many end up relapsing. There is more than one way to skin a cat and the fact of the matter is that the only person who has any right to criticize my progress is myself, and I can say with no false modesty that I'm doing just fine. Although I must admit my coffee habit is getting a bit out of hand

ru12

I'm going to speak in practical terms I guess: less harm is better than more harm. If someone stops drinking after 2 drinks it is probably better than 20 drinks. I would rather someone get drunk at home and stay put, then get drunk and drive around. I do think Harm Reduction is a valuable concept. With that said, there are so many people that just cannot consistently stop after 2 drinks. Their best intentions are thrown out the window once they introduce alcohol into their bodies. If they drink 2 they are just getting started. And soon they are completely out of control.

If I were to pick up again, I would rather that I stopped at 2 than drink until blackout. And I hope and pray that I wouldn't get in my car and drive But I am not certain that I would stop or that I wouldn't drive, so I have no intention of putting it to the test. Heck even the Big Book tells people to try some controlled drinking if they aren't yet convinced of their alcohol problem. I wouldn't advise that. I would tell people to honestly look at their past experiences with alcohol. I think that is all the proof they really need.

Pigtails

If we admit we are alcoholics, then why would we drink? BigJim says to keep family and friends at bay -- forget them, this is about you. I am not sure what Camille's reasoning is. My own reasoning for drinking was that I hadn't admitted I was an alcoholic and then, once I did, I wasn't ready to commit to what it took to change. I am seriously trying to think of any reason an alcoholic should drink, and I can't. How can it be good for us? Why would we support any alcoholic drinking? I am not sure what advice we are supposed to give here besides "don't drink." To me, that is the only advice for an alcoholic. Otherwise we are encouraging self-destruction. A true alcoholic cannot control their drinking long-term. So if we are talking about control/moderation for someone who is not an alcoholic, okay, I get it. But the point of this site is for alcoholics to overcome their addiction, and I am confused as to how anyone thinks there's another path to that except for sobriety? Or how sobriety could mean anything other than total abstinence?

Nirvana1

2 drinks is fine for a normal drinker. I assume most of us are here because we have been out of control for a very long time. I didn't give up drinking for years after I should have and I'm still in my 20's. If I had to divide my drinking career into 100 nights my stats would look like this:

10 nights: only a couple drinks and nothing happened.

30 nights: Drank way too much and was atleast really hungover.

60 nights: Out of control and either did something I didn't like or had some sort of alcohol related problem.

I don't know how everyone else's break down, but I kept rationalizing that everything was ok based on the 10 nights out of 100 that nothing happened. Then I stretched it out to 1/3rd of my nights that "weren't too bad". But if you look at my odds, bad things happened cause of my drinking 90% of the time. I had to give up that 10% fantasy by quitting cold turkey and getting a lot of support.

Obviously I know many who could force themselves to stop at 2 drinks for a night or even a week, but eventually it lead back to out of control. It is hard to see the difference in a drinking cycle, which is why those of us out of the cycle are really pushing not to drink at all. You can't have what we have with any drinking, so the sooner you get to that point, the quicker you will know what we are talking about.

Threshold

In my experience at SR, I think we do both. We acknowledge and congratulate on victories and we encourage growth towards more solid recovery.

This place is awesome!

CaiHong

Earlier on in the thread I thanked Dee for starting this thread, my AV is screaming at me right now to have a drink, it has really stepped up. While reading the posts my AV is highlighting the parts of some posts and interpreting them as it being OK to have a drink. I am of the school that does not want to moderate I would like to get drunk, feel relaxed and at peace for a while then toddle off to bed and never drink again but I know the next time it will be so much easier to pick up even as I write this I am thinking about having a drink.

Camille please don't feel that you can't share your true feelings, it just makes the forum pointless if you can't but don't expect people to say sure go ahead it will be OK. I think I would be heading down to the supermarket right now if they did.
I am coming up to 6 months sober and am thinking what can I do to stop these cravings. I certainly need the "tough" advice.

I sincerely wish you all the best and thankyou so much for your posts. I needed them right now as well.

CaiHong

BigJim

Pigtails, you aren't understanding that this is MY fight and I need to approach it in a way that I feel will give me the most success. Maybe everyone else is fine going cold turkey, but the fact is that almost everyone here has relapsed at some point or another so why is everyone so sure this is the only way? People here seem to think the world is made up of only two kinds of people; Alcoholics and non alcoholics. There are billions of people and alcohol is different for each one. I chose to take several steps rather than just jump off the edge and fail like so many others. I'm making my choices for me and have stated several times that I don't recommend my path for anyone else here. How many people here have not had one drink since the FIRST time they decided to get sober? My guess is not many. People who have had trouble on their own path shouldn't tell others how to go about theirs. I'm beginning to get a sense that there is only one way to do things here, and if anyone does it differently, then they're wrong. This is the exact reason I didn't want to bring my friends and family into it right now. Too many people think they know whats right for you when they don't even know whats right for themselves.

geno1982

i know how the addics brain works, most just try to justify drinking one or two beers it will be ok, but thats how the cycle starts again, and if you are nieave to think you can control that, well your going to create a deeper rock bottom than your did before

Dee74

Hang in there CaiHong - whatever's got you rattled today, I guarantee you'll feel better tomorrow when you wake up sober

Have you tried urge surfing?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3089465

I also like the Allen Carr approach - think about what you want that drink to do for you - think about how unrealistic that want is, and maybe think of other more positive ways you can get whatever you're wanting tonight?

D