Have a question about VERY sick people who come to AA
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
LOL I maybe be old, or even an old timer, but let me preface my remarks by saying I have no personal knowledge of AA or it's meetings....
It's not wrong to want to help someone or be concerned - but I dunno the details...
maybe someone has asked - maybe they were rebuffed?
Maybe people prefer to wait until this woman approaches them?
maybe the prevailing thought is she needs to want to take action herself?
That why I think you should speak to others in your group if you're concerned 1undone
D
It's not wrong to want to help someone or be concerned - but I dunno the details...
maybe someone has asked - maybe they were rebuffed?
Maybe people prefer to wait until this woman approaches them?
maybe the prevailing thought is she needs to want to take action herself?
That why I think you should speak to others in your group if you're concerned 1undone
D
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 228
You're never too new to offer help and ESH to a wet drunk. I've found this to be the best method of keeping the insanity at bay at times.
As far as the jaundice. A number of things could be causing it, gallstones, pancreatic cancer, hepatitis, whatever it is, we have no idea unless we are their physician. I don't feel a strong need to somehow alert any authorities because of this. What I do feel a strong need to do though when I smell alcohol at a meeting is offer the person my hand, a cup of coffee, my number, and the option of getting to work on a solution. Sometimes it works, sometimes I never see them again. Either way, I've never taken a drink after doing that.
As far as the jaundice. A number of things could be causing it, gallstones, pancreatic cancer, hepatitis, whatever it is, we have no idea unless we are their physician. I don't feel a strong need to somehow alert any authorities because of this. What I do feel a strong need to do though when I smell alcohol at a meeting is offer the person my hand, a cup of coffee, my number, and the option of getting to work on a solution. Sometimes it works, sometimes I never see them again. Either way, I've never taken a drink after doing that.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,279
If your new to recovery then it is probably best to try not to fix her, that being said a friendly smile, hello & some conversation should be fine. Are there long timers in the group, I am sure they know the basics of her story.
Take care & all of the best in your recovery (and hers).
Cheers ~ NB
Take care & all of the best in your recovery (and hers).
Cheers ~ NB
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
A long time ago I was drinking and often drunk in meetings. The people were kind and said nothing directly to me about it. One guy did mention in his pitch 'we can smell our hypocrites'.
If it bothers you to watch sick people getting worse by foolishly choosing to not take some simple actions to get better, then you're going to be bothered a lot for as long as you're in AA. They don't generally change colors as this lady, but evidence it in different ways.
One of the many benefits of taking the steps is you'll get to retain your normal skin color. Hopefully you're making the progress this lady is denying herself. If not, then you may find yourself shocking newcomers by your smell and/or appearance at some future point.
Every person you encounter in AA is in the process of experiencing the good or bad results from the choices they've made to this point. Watching how it goes for others based on what they do or do not do is always interesting and enlightening, but is also sometimes very sad as often people choose badly for themselves out of ignorance or pride, or other reasons.
In AA we cannot and don't want to compel people to save their lives. You are no more responsible for her drinking herself to death than she would be responsible for you if the tables were turned.
If you haven't a dark suit already then get one, as you'll need it often in AA.
If it bothers you to watch sick people getting worse by foolishly choosing to not take some simple actions to get better, then you're going to be bothered a lot for as long as you're in AA. They don't generally change colors as this lady, but evidence it in different ways.
One of the many benefits of taking the steps is you'll get to retain your normal skin color. Hopefully you're making the progress this lady is denying herself. If not, then you may find yourself shocking newcomers by your smell and/or appearance at some future point.
Every person you encounter in AA is in the process of experiencing the good or bad results from the choices they've made to this point. Watching how it goes for others based on what they do or do not do is always interesting and enlightening, but is also sometimes very sad as often people choose badly for themselves out of ignorance or pride, or other reasons.
In AA we cannot and don't want to compel people to save their lives. You are no more responsible for her drinking herself to death than she would be responsible for you if the tables were turned.
If you haven't a dark suit already then get one, as you'll need it often in AA.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
1un,
i was that person
and i took the help offered.
the bottom line, we have to want it!
do hope some day that one does,
as i cant believe no one offered some kind of help to her at the meeting
i was that person
and i took the help offered.
the bottom line, we have to want it!
do hope some day that one does,
as i cant believe no one offered some kind of help to her at the meeting
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Where the sun is always shining
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by switchboard 
I can't speak for everyone, but yes (for me).... I am 46, and last year I came back from severe jaundice and liver #s that were the highest they'd ever seen. They talked about transplantation if they couldn't "bring me back" by way of fluids, vitamins and slowly reintroducing food as I hadn't eaten in a long time. They also mentioned death (I asked), but we concentrated on getting better. They did a ton of tests .. including ultrasound, CT scan, blood tests at least once a day, etc.
I was dehydrated, and hadn't eaten for about six months. I blamed it on anxiety, depression, marriage breakdown, etc. No one knew I was addicted to alcohol - In fact, I hid my detoxing in the hospital. I figured I was in there anyway, so if anything went wrong I'd have help ... I suffered through it silently, told no one, pretended my way around it, etc.... And I did it .. somehow. I didn't have any alcohol in my system when I went in because I knew I'd be going in the next day, so I started my own "cold turkey" the day before. What a fool, huh.)
My skin was glowing yellow and my eyes were fully yellow-orange. I had been drinking - secretly - for a very long time .. constantly (when I wasn't puking), around the clock, to keep from withdrawing... Never drunk, I drank to function (barely function, that is - but I muddled through and worked hard to smile and hide my difficulties). If it hadn't been for my family telling me how yellow I was and insisting I go have a clinic doctor look at me (he told me to get to emerg. asap), I probably would have died, perhaps by slipping into a coma in my sleep.
I don't know if my advice is right or wrong .. but if it were me, back then, who was "that woman" in your AA group ... I think I would have probably been there out of desperation, knowing deep down how "far gone" I was already, and hoping for some sort of miracle chance to get out of this lifestyle, before I die. I would have wanted you to offer to go to the doctor or emerg. with me, or at least to talk about going and maybe help me get a plan together, tell me a few good stories that turned out well (like the one I just told you here, in this post). I'm sure she feels very alone and scared.
But ... that's just me. I don't know if it's the right advice, but that's what I would have wanted.
Hope she is going to be OK.
I was dehydrated, and hadn't eaten for about six months. I blamed it on anxiety, depression, marriage breakdown, etc. No one knew I was addicted to alcohol - In fact, I hid my detoxing in the hospital. I figured I was in there anyway, so if anything went wrong I'd have help ... I suffered through it silently, told no one, pretended my way around it, etc.... And I did it .. somehow. I didn't have any alcohol in my system when I went in because I knew I'd be going in the next day, so I started my own "cold turkey" the day before. What a fool, huh.)
My skin was glowing yellow and my eyes were fully yellow-orange. I had been drinking - secretly - for a very long time .. constantly (when I wasn't puking), around the clock, to keep from withdrawing... Never drunk, I drank to function (barely function, that is - but I muddled through and worked hard to smile and hide my difficulties). If it hadn't been for my family telling me how yellow I was and insisting I go have a clinic doctor look at me (he told me to get to emerg. asap), I probably would have died, perhaps by slipping into a coma in my sleep.
I don't know if my advice is right or wrong .. but if it were me, back then, who was "that woman" in your AA group ... I think I would have probably been there out of desperation, knowing deep down how "far gone" I was already, and hoping for some sort of miracle chance to get out of this lifestyle, before I die. I would have wanted you to offer to go to the doctor or emerg. with me, or at least to talk about going and maybe help me get a plan together, tell me a few good stories that turned out well (like the one I just told you here, in this post). I'm sure she feels very alone and scared.
But ... that's just me. I don't know if it's the right advice, but that's what I would have wanted.
Hope she is going to be OK.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Where the sun is always shining
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by cuyootoo
And that particular individual might be contagious. So, calling an ambulance is reasonable. If the hospital found that her alcoholism was to blame they could have her committed to the psychiatric ward until she was no longer a danger to herself. And then after a month or so, she could be a lot better.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Where the sun is always shining
Posts: 425
1undone,
It is obvious that you have a compassionate, loving heart. That is a blessing and a curse at the same time. I agree that it may be wise to ask one of the "long timers" what they think. Sitting by watching someone slowly die is very painful. Maybe she wants someone to say something to her but she has too much shame to ask. Most of us had that feeling that no one cares. It is obvious she wants some kind of help as she would not be at an AA meeting otherwise. The problem here is that if one were to offer help, are they really prepared to except what that may entail if she excepted the offer? Most are not equipped. I would not stop going to your AA meetings. Life is going to throw you painful situations. You have a battle in front of you right now. Concentrate on that. We have to save ourselves first before we try to help save others. Talk to someone in the group that you trust. If you are a spiritual person, pray for her. Most importantly, take care of you first.
It is obvious that you have a compassionate, loving heart. That is a blessing and a curse at the same time. I agree that it may be wise to ask one of the "long timers" what they think. Sitting by watching someone slowly die is very painful. Maybe she wants someone to say something to her but she has too much shame to ask. Most of us had that feeling that no one cares. It is obvious she wants some kind of help as she would not be at an AA meeting otherwise. The problem here is that if one were to offer help, are they really prepared to except what that may entail if she excepted the offer? Most are not equipped. I would not stop going to your AA meetings. Life is going to throw you painful situations. You have a battle in front of you right now. Concentrate on that. We have to save ourselves first before we try to help save others. Talk to someone in the group that you trust. If you are a spiritual person, pray for her. Most importantly, take care of you first.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by soberred
Don't kid yourself. They knew. There are labs that show chronic alcohol abuse even when there is no alcohol in the system. They may not have said anything to you but they knew. I am sure your thiamine, folic acid, b vitamins, potassium, and magnesium were low as well.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
I hope no one is offended by this, but here goes.
I saw plenty of the type of thing you're talking about when I was attending AA meetings, years ago.
After I left AA, I educated myself about the other options that exist for help with addictions, and there are many.
Now, looking back, I wonder if people like this woman could have been helped if they had been told about, or tried, different approaches. So often, people like this woman know nothing but AA, and AA members repeat the "it's AA or die" mantra, and if AA is not a good fit for the person they feel hopeless.
Now in saying this I am not saying that this woman would definitely recover if offered a different approach, nor am I saying that AA itself is worthless. I am just saying that all too often people paint themselves into a corner thinking that there's only one way to recover, and no one bothers to correct that misimpression.
I should also mention that it is not unheard of for AA members to recommend other programs. In fact, my former AA sponsor not infrequently gets me involved with people who aren't recovering in AA, and I help them out with SMART Recovery.
I saw plenty of the type of thing you're talking about when I was attending AA meetings, years ago.
After I left AA, I educated myself about the other options that exist for help with addictions, and there are many.
Now, looking back, I wonder if people like this woman could have been helped if they had been told about, or tried, different approaches. So often, people like this woman know nothing but AA, and AA members repeat the "it's AA or die" mantra, and if AA is not a good fit for the person they feel hopeless.
Now in saying this I am not saying that this woman would definitely recover if offered a different approach, nor am I saying that AA itself is worthless. I am just saying that all too often people paint themselves into a corner thinking that there's only one way to recover, and no one bothers to correct that misimpression.
I should also mention that it is not unheard of for AA members to recommend other programs. In fact, my former AA sponsor not infrequently gets me involved with people who aren't recovering in AA, and I help them out with SMART Recovery.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Where the sun is always shining
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by switchboard
By "no one knew", I was talking about my family. I guess I was unclear - sorry. Don't worry, I am not "kidding myself". I am sure the doctors knew, and I talked to them about it and about how much I drank (and, as any alcoholic, I diminished it). But there was no way I was going into that hospital drunk, so I quit cold turkey the day before. As for the vitamins, etc., I certainly know all about those too. I learned a lot in that hospital, and I have several doctors in my family anyway ... as well as several alcoholics. Thank you.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Posts: 160
Originally Posted by soberred
I meant no harm by that comment. Did not mean for it to come off so harsh. My apologies
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
Good point, OTT. I wouldn't say SMART is itself entirely worthless, and suggesting she go away and try reading their material or doing some online meetings might be all the help this woman needs to save herself.
Hopefully someone will be kind enough to tell her.
Hopefully someone will be kind enough to tell her.
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