Train Wreck Coming?
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Train Wreck Coming?
I have a friend who has a daughter and it appears that the latter is having a very tough time with her illness. An old, old story- trips to the rehab and then drinking resumes shortly after and gets worse. Her family is of course concerned and upset but continues to allow her to live at home when things get tough. When she gets in trouble they figure that it's their mission to "rescue" her. And trouble often comes, since fairly recently there was apparently an auto accident. She was driving, totaled the car and could have killed two passengers. Sent to a rehab or halfway house (i'm not sure which) under a court order and, now released, is said to be drinking again.
It seems fairly apparent that there's only one person who can turn this business around and avoid a total train wreck and that's the person herself. Her parents and her other relatives know that I'm a recovering alcoholic and I have at times offered to do what I could but I'm quite sure that because I'm an older man, with an enormous age difference, she would very likely make headway, if at all, only with a woman her age who has managed to have some success with recovery. This is what I would recommend if asked. But I haven't been asked. All I know is what I hear from my wife, who has discussed this with the girl's aunt. Interesting that I've been left to get any news by talking to my wife.
Should I write them a letter? Say something? Or just wait here for further news of a possible disaster and take care that I watch out with my own driving that she's not headed in my direction? Offhand I've decided to do nothing, since in all likelihood she must have been advised (like in the rehab) to find another person her age with recovery time. If she's done so and it hasn't worked out then we'll just have to sit on the sidelines and hope.
W.
It seems fairly apparent that there's only one person who can turn this business around and avoid a total train wreck and that's the person herself. Her parents and her other relatives know that I'm a recovering alcoholic and I have at times offered to do what I could but I'm quite sure that because I'm an older man, with an enormous age difference, she would very likely make headway, if at all, only with a woman her age who has managed to have some success with recovery. This is what I would recommend if asked. But I haven't been asked. All I know is what I hear from my wife, who has discussed this with the girl's aunt. Interesting that I've been left to get any news by talking to my wife.
Should I write them a letter? Say something? Or just wait here for further news of a possible disaster and take care that I watch out with my own driving that she's not headed in my direction? Offhand I've decided to do nothing, since in all likelihood she must have been advised (like in the rehab) to find another person her age with recovery time. If she's done so and it hasn't worked out then we'll just have to sit on the sidelines and hope.
W.
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They know through your wife that you are a recovering alcoholic. Wait for them to ask.
If you 'interfere' or give your unsolicited 'advice' and it does not agree with their ideals of 'helping' her then you have folks mad at you.
J M H O, but at this time, IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Mohammad does not come to the mountain, the mountain comes to Mohammad.
She obviously, based on what you have garnered and posted here, IS NOT YET READY.
Love and hugs,
If you 'interfere' or give your unsolicited 'advice' and it does not agree with their ideals of 'helping' her then you have folks mad at you.
J M H O, but at this time, IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Mohammad does not come to the mountain, the mountain comes to Mohammad.
She obviously, based on what you have garnered and posted here, IS NOT YET READY.
Love and hugs,
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Sorry! This makes me feel like I've been presumptuous! You say that it is none of my business. I agree. But I am nonetheless hurting and upset because I am fond of these people. Do you think that this too is wrong, that is for me to feel helpless? Might you feel this way if you saw someone about to drive over a cliff and, in the process hurt others?
All I wanted here was to talk to someone, like you folks. And I'm feeling bad about that...
May I now withdraw this thread or ask that it be closed?
W.
All I wanted here was to talk to someone, like you folks. And I'm feeling bad about that...
May I now withdraw this thread or ask that it be closed?
W.
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I'm sorry you're upset w.
I don't think anyone was criticising you wpainter - I know very well what it's like to care for someone, and to feel utterly helpless to do anything to stop what looks from my perspective like a slow motion car crash....that's a natural human reaction.
but I really believe now, after very painful experience, that I can't save anyone.
Thats their job, not mine - it has to be that way, like it was for me - and I assume it was for you too?
Like I say - be ready to offer help and advice if asked...and I hope you will be - but it's best if the overture comes from the person in trouble...your advice is more likely to help then, I think.
Personally, I think this is a great topic and a very valuable thread - but - think about it - and if you want to close the thread that's your call.
PM me...
D
I don't think anyone was criticising you wpainter - I know very well what it's like to care for someone, and to feel utterly helpless to do anything to stop what looks from my perspective like a slow motion car crash....that's a natural human reaction.
but I really believe now, after very painful experience, that I can't save anyone.
Thats their job, not mine - it has to be that way, like it was for me - and I assume it was for you too?
Like I say - be ready to offer help and advice if asked...and I hope you will be - but it's best if the overture comes from the person in trouble...your advice is more likely to help then, I think.
Personally, I think this is a great topic and a very valuable thread - but - think about it - and if you want to close the thread that's your call.
PM me...
D
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Originally Posted by wpainterw 
But I am nonetheless hurting and upset because I am fond of these people. Do you think that this too is wrong, that is for me to feel helpless? Might you feel this way if you saw someone about to drive over a cliff and, in the process hurt others?
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Thanks Dee. Maybe I overreacted to being told in rather strong terms that it was "none of my business". I thought my initial post was fairly clear that I had already arrived at the conclusion that I had no business "interfering" in any way. And at the close of my post I indicated that I had decided to do nothing. I can always go to the funeral, that is if I'm invited.
Maybe what was upsetting me was that the girl's aunt keeps coming over and talking about this with my wife and never with me, like I'm some kind of outsider. This makes me feel isolated and increases the loneliness which is inevitable in old age. I had a friend with whom I could share such concerns by Email but now he is in the final stages of Parkinson's and the last time I was in his neighborhood I didn't see him since I sensed that he didn't want to see me. So I guess I used this website just to say how all this makes me feel, just like I would have done if my friend were there.
In the final analysis, Harry Truman was right when he said that "If you want a friend [in Washington], buy a dog." I have a dog.
W.
Maybe what was upsetting me was that the girl's aunt keeps coming over and talking about this with my wife and never with me, like I'm some kind of outsider. This makes me feel isolated and increases the loneliness which is inevitable in old age. I had a friend with whom I could share such concerns by Email but now he is in the final stages of Parkinson's and the last time I was in his neighborhood I didn't see him since I sensed that he didn't want to see me. So I guess I used this website just to say how all this makes me feel, just like I would have done if my friend were there.
In the final analysis, Harry Truman was right when he said that "If you want a friend [in Washington], buy a dog." I have a dog.
W.
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I think a lot of women probably feel more comfortable discussing things with other women - I wouldn't take it personally
I'm sorry for your friend too - a man I've known all my life is slowly disappearing due to Parkinsons - it's very very hard to watch.
and going off on a little tangent - I'm not sure I agree loneliness is inevitable at any age...I used to be involved in community work and there's usually a lot of activities on offer for older people and people with disabilities like myself....
my grandmother was always involved in a lot of senior citizen groups and activities - she had a lot of fun
I'm not saying bingo and bustrips are the answer for you lol but maybe it wouldn't hurt for you to take a look at what's available in your community?
D
I'm sorry for your friend too - a man I've known all my life is slowly disappearing due to Parkinsons - it's very very hard to watch.
and going off on a little tangent - I'm not sure I agree loneliness is inevitable at any age...I used to be involved in community work and there's usually a lot of activities on offer for older people and people with disabilities like myself....
my grandmother was always involved in a lot of senior citizen groups and activities - she had a lot of fun
I'm not saying bingo and bustrips are the answer for you lol but maybe it wouldn't hurt for you to take a look at what's available in your community?
D
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You could mention to your wife that would not be averse to helping out if they wanted the help. She could pass the word along. You never know, they may feel they are imposing otherwise. If nothing comes of that, though, then you may have to let things play out on their own.
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W,
Through your years of experience you know that self-delusion is the cornerstone of addiction. She has been to rehab, made the rounds at the courthouse multiple times, nearly killed others, and still doesn't "get it." The problem is not your age, the problem is that she is unwilling to face the truth.
I don't see any harm in offering to help, it certainly won't cause her to act any more destructively than she already is. Odds are that someone with whom she would more easily identify would have a better chance of success. But nobody can keep her sober against her will, only she can do that. Make the offer without expectation as to it even being accepted, much less an outcome if it is, and see where it leads you. You never know... miracles do happen, and the only way to know is to try.
Through your years of experience you know that self-delusion is the cornerstone of addiction. She has been to rehab, made the rounds at the courthouse multiple times, nearly killed others, and still doesn't "get it." The problem is not your age, the problem is that she is unwilling to face the truth.
I don't see any harm in offering to help, it certainly won't cause her to act any more destructively than she already is. Odds are that someone with whom she would more easily identify would have a better chance of success. But nobody can keep her sober against her will, only she can do that. Make the offer without expectation as to it even being accepted, much less an outcome if it is, and see where it leads you. You never know... miracles do happen, and the only way to know is to try.
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WpaniterW,
I am glad that you didn't withdraw the thread. It started making me think why I gave up. (forever).
A combination of people, best friend and a BB thumping AA member, seem to have done the trick.
I feel your frustration, one because you are the obvious person to talk to and two we are not programmed to watch train crashes without jumping in to help.
Allthe best
CaiHong
I am glad that you didn't withdraw the thread. It started making me think why I gave up. (forever).
A combination of people, best friend and a BB thumping AA member, seem to have done the trick.
I feel your frustration, one because you are the obvious person to talk to and two we are not programmed to watch train crashes without jumping in to help.
Allthe best
CaiHong
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(((((Painter)))))
I am sorry if I did not word my post in a way that would not offend. You see having been around a LONG TIME, lol I am what is called a "Double Winner" and that post was my 'Alanon' side rearing up. At 3 years to the day sober, my AA sponsor STRONGLY SUGGESTED that I also get my butt to Alanon and get an Alanon Sponsor. I am so grateful, to this day that she did 'suggest' this and that I had sense enough to follow her suggestion, even though I DIDN'T THINK I NEEDED ALANON, rofl.
Something I have seen over and over and over in those I work with in recovery and know in recovery is that we also have a 'condition' whereby we can become very "Co Dependent" and want to "fix" others that we care about and are hurting.
Of course, you care. I understand that, boy do I understand that one. Something I had DRILLED into me from about 3 months on, is for my own sake, I CANNOT, MUST NOT and SHOULD NOT attempt to "12 Step" anyone that I am emotionally involved with ...................... ie parents, siblings, siblings' children, friends, children and siblings of friends, etc.
My daughter and S-I-L had been married about 3 years, (they have been married over 15 now, lol) when SIL asked me if I would speak with his sister who at that time had a really bad alcohol and drug problem. I said no, but what I would do is every time she was at the house, if he would let me know, I would be there, and possibly over time as she heard and saw how I lived sober and clean she would come to me herself. It took 4 1/2 years, but she finally did.
Took her a bit after that, but she has worked very hard and now has a tad over 4 years, by WORKING VERY HARD ON HERSELF.
Work the program you would like to see this youngster work. Walk your recovery every day ............................. she will hear and see when she is ready to hear and see.
Again, you can care, you CANNOT 'fix'. It is None Of Your Business.
I have found in recovery that I can 'be of service' in so many way. Years ago, I started going to Nursing Homes, asking the Shift Nurse who no longer got visitors and then would pick one to just go and visit. Believe me, they did more for me than I believe I ever did for them.
Now that I am a 'senior citizen', ugh how I hate that phrase, lmao I have started going to the 'Senior Citizen's Center' in my area, and have made some pretty 'kewl' friends. Found some Canasta lovers, and Majong lovers, and it almost never fails that one of them is calling me or I am calling some of the others and we get together for Canasta and/or Majong at the center. Sometimes we go early and have 'lunch' at the center (pretty good and decent meals for a $1.50 and nutritious too and fit my diabetic diet!) or we meet elsewhere 'early' to get the 'early bird specials' for supper, lol.
Or if one of us is having 'health issues' (sometimes my neuropathy, from both alcoholism and diabetes, acts up and I just cannot walk far or drive) and the person is willing, we meet at each others homes, or pick up the one with 'issues' of the moment.
So again, I was not being mean, did not mean my words to sound mean, have just found that as much as I would like to 'help' and/or 'fix' others, it is out of my control. I can only show by example and wait to see if my advice and/or help is asked for.
Love and hugs,
I am sorry if I did not word my post in a way that would not offend. You see having been around a LONG TIME, lol I am what is called a "Double Winner" and that post was my 'Alanon' side rearing up. At 3 years to the day sober, my AA sponsor STRONGLY SUGGESTED that I also get my butt to Alanon and get an Alanon Sponsor. I am so grateful, to this day that she did 'suggest' this and that I had sense enough to follow her suggestion, even though I DIDN'T THINK I NEEDED ALANON, rofl.
Something I have seen over and over and over in those I work with in recovery and know in recovery is that we also have a 'condition' whereby we can become very "Co Dependent" and want to "fix" others that we care about and are hurting.
Of course, you care. I understand that, boy do I understand that one. Something I had DRILLED into me from about 3 months on, is for my own sake, I CANNOT, MUST NOT and SHOULD NOT attempt to "12 Step" anyone that I am emotionally involved with ...................... ie parents, siblings, siblings' children, friends, children and siblings of friends, etc.
My daughter and S-I-L had been married about 3 years, (they have been married over 15 now, lol) when SIL asked me if I would speak with his sister who at that time had a really bad alcohol and drug problem. I said no, but what I would do is every time she was at the house, if he would let me know, I would be there, and possibly over time as she heard and saw how I lived sober and clean she would come to me herself. It took 4 1/2 years, but she finally did.
Took her a bit after that, but she has worked very hard and now has a tad over 4 years, by WORKING VERY HARD ON HERSELF.
Work the program you would like to see this youngster work. Walk your recovery every day ............................. she will hear and see when she is ready to hear and see.
Again, you can care, you CANNOT 'fix'. It is None Of Your Business.
I have found in recovery that I can 'be of service' in so many way. Years ago, I started going to Nursing Homes, asking the Shift Nurse who no longer got visitors and then would pick one to just go and visit. Believe me, they did more for me than I believe I ever did for them.
Now that I am a 'senior citizen', ugh how I hate that phrase, lmao I have started going to the 'Senior Citizen's Center' in my area, and have made some pretty 'kewl' friends. Found some Canasta lovers, and Majong lovers, and it almost never fails that one of them is calling me or I am calling some of the others and we get together for Canasta and/or Majong at the center. Sometimes we go early and have 'lunch' at the center (pretty good and decent meals for a $1.50 and nutritious too and fit my diabetic diet!) or we meet elsewhere 'early' to get the 'early bird specials' for supper, lol.
Or if one of us is having 'health issues' (sometimes my neuropathy, from both alcoholism and diabetes, acts up and I just cannot walk far or drive) and the person is willing, we meet at each others homes, or pick up the one with 'issues' of the moment.
So again, I was not being mean, did not mean my words to sound mean, have just found that as much as I would like to 'help' and/or 'fix' others, it is out of my control. I can only show by example and wait to see if my advice and/or help is asked for.
Love and hugs,
instant
Join Date: May 2011
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As someone new to all this I recall how much trouble I had with myself. There is a risk those trying to help us are seen as "the problem" and are resented for their interference. I certainly felt this way about my wife. She stopped "helping" and got on with her life. After a while it became obvious even to me that I was being left behind.
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Laurie: With respect, I'm afraid that this is getting us no where. As I have said in previous posts I have no wish to "12 step" this person and would refuse to do so if she asked me, since I believe that she is better off with a young woman who has some recovery time. You keep saying that it is "none of my business". All I can say is that it is my business if it keeps me awake at nights as it did last night after I had read your post. It's my business to try to get this out of my mind now. Let me try to be completely clear about this. I have no intention of becoming involved in any way with this alcoholic. But I did wonder whether I might pass the word, perhaps to her aunt, or perhaps to my wife to say to her aunt, that I think it a good idea that this person seek a female friend her age who might be of help. Do you think that I "have no business" making this suggestion either to her aunt or to my wife? Secondly, do you think that I 'have no business" suggesting to my wife that when the aunt comes over to visit that perhaps the aunt might wish to talk with me if she thinks that might help? Or would I not be minding my own business if I made such a suggestion? I'm getting a bit tired of repeating all this stuff over and over so this is my last post.
Incidentally, I see that you are a dog lover. Good for you!
W.
Incidentally, I see that you are a dog lover. Good for you!
W.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Did Bill W. wait for Bob to show up at his doorstep? Did Bob and Bill wait for Bill D. to come waltzing in?
I understand your concern about having someone with more similar life experiences approach her. Can you have a younger, female member of the fellowship make a call and offer to meet with her? She'll either take that phone call or she won't. Either way, you'll know you've done what you can.
I understand your concern about having someone with more similar life experiences approach her. Can you have a younger, female member of the fellowship make a call and offer to meet with her? She'll either take that phone call or she won't. Either way, you'll know you've done what you can.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 174
Hi W,
Having no knowledge of the dynamics at play in this situation, this would be my gut reaction as well. Those close to you may appreciate that you are recovered but not understand exactly what that means and not feel comfortable reaching out to you about it. As your wife is the one they have chosen to seek assistance from (the spouse of a former alcoholic), advice/suggestion from her about enlisting your assistance would carry a different weight.
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
You could mention to your wife that would not be averse to helping out if they wanted the help. She could pass the word along. You never know, they may feel they are imposing otherwise. If nothing comes of that, though, then you may have to let things play out on their own.
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Thank you, Keith J and Aegean for your concerns and suggestions. Actually it's a bit more complex than merely having some young person or persons go over. It appears that the whole family is involved and that, as often happens, there may be considerable codependency, enabling, denial, etc. My fear is that if the situation continues the person may have to do some jail time, which would be traumatic not only for her but for her family. The upside of that is that such a drastic outcome might bring them all to their senses, spark some real incentive to get well. It may well be that the best persons to help her are recovering alcoholics now in jail who are really honest about their plans for recovery. Wisdom sometimes makes house calls in the prison.
I do not plan to talk with her but I may discuss this with the family or the aunt if given the opportunity. Thanks, everyone for your concern and all your suggestions. I sense that this situation is unstable and will either get better or get worse in the near future. I just hope that no one is killed or hurt in the process. The true injustice is when the problem affects innocent people.
W.
I do not plan to talk with her but I may discuss this with the family or the aunt if given the opportunity. Thanks, everyone for your concern and all your suggestions. I sense that this situation is unstable and will either get better or get worse in the near future. I just hope that no one is killed or hurt in the process. The true injustice is when the problem affects innocent people.
W.
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