My Faithlessness: The atheist way through AA
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
AVRT:
Many thanks for introducing more precision into my muddled thinking! You apparently have a much broader knowledge of the subject than I do. Yet, despite my inaccuracies, despite my ignorance of "current developments", despite my lack of understanding of the "real nature" of this illness, or whatever one may call it, despite all this, if someone were to come to me today, someone who has gone through what I went through for forty years, who has suffered as I have suffered, and if that someone were to say, "What would you recommend I do to get myself out of this mess?" I would say, "First, find a physician who has been well trained to deal with these issues, then be entirely candid with that physician, follow his or her recommendations, and, finally, seek some kind of group support. Try AA if you feel you can do that. Try several groups. If you feel that AA is not compatible or uncongenial, then try some other group program. But even if you have to do it alone, preferably with some kind of counseling (that didn't really work for me, however) there's one thing that you must do and that one thing is NEVER GIVE UP".
That's all I have to say. I hope I'm entitled to say it since I've been to the territory and I've come back.
W.
Many thanks for introducing more precision into my muddled thinking! You apparently have a much broader knowledge of the subject than I do. Yet, despite my inaccuracies, despite my ignorance of "current developments", despite my lack of understanding of the "real nature" of this illness, or whatever one may call it, despite all this, if someone were to come to me today, someone who has gone through what I went through for forty years, who has suffered as I have suffered, and if that someone were to say, "What would you recommend I do to get myself out of this mess?" I would say, "First, find a physician who has been well trained to deal with these issues, then be entirely candid with that physician, follow his or her recommendations, and, finally, seek some kind of group support. Try AA if you feel you can do that. Try several groups. If you feel that AA is not compatible or uncongenial, then try some other group program. But even if you have to do it alone, preferably with some kind of counseling (that didn't really work for me, however) there's one thing that you must do and that one thing is NEVER GIVE UP".
That's all I have to say. I hope I'm entitled to say it since I've been to the territory and I've come back.
W.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by wpainterw 
...if someone were to come to me today, someone who has gone through what I went through for forty years, who has suffered as I have suffered, and if that someone were to say, "What would you recommend I do to get myself out of this mess?" I would say, "First, find a physician who has been well trained to deal with these issues, then be entirely candid with that physician, follow his or her recommendations, and, finally, seek some kind of group support.
Originally Posted by wpainterw
Try AA if you feel you can do that. Try several groups. If you feel that AA is not compatible or uncongenial, then try some other group program. But even if you have to do it alone, preferably with some kind of counseling (that didn't really work for me, however) there's one thing that you must do and that one thing is NEVER GIVE UP".
That's all I have to say. I hope I'm entitled to say it since I've been to the territory and I've come back.
That's all I have to say. I hope I'm entitled to say it since I've been to the territory and I've come back.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Sugah
I think, instead, what I have a hard time believing is that anyone can live, or desires to live, with the idea that all this is random, that we're random, and that some little blip in the chaos spit us out, and everything we've built is no big deal.
Sugah, I don't think that an atheist who feels that life was not created, that it was a "blip in the chaos," necessarily feels that it is all "no big deal." For an atheist who does not believe in intelligent creation, might not the existence of life, and human life in particular, in spite of the very slim chances, make it quite a big deal? For an atheist who does not believe in an afterlife, might not the belief that this is the only life they have to live, without possibility of another, make it all the more valuable to them?
The more scarce and rare that something is, the more valuable it is, no?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by AVRT
For an atheist who does not believe in an afterlife, might not the belief that this is the only life they have to live, without possibility of another, make it all the more valuable to them?
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
You folks have given a great deal of thought to this and I find your exchange fascinating. Bookmarked to that I can take my time to digest these ideas. I completely agree with the locus of control distinction. Thanks.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by wpainterw
I can't understand this. The assertion seems to imply that anything spiritual makes no sense. Thus (if "It is spiritual" then "it makes no sense"). Spirituality, then, is senseless, nonsense. I humbly and respectfully disagree and I am joined in this by I estimate several billions of persons over around seven thousand centuries. In believing in "nonsense" at least I'm in good company!
Zen Statistics: How Many Buddhists Are There Worldwide? | NowPublic News Coverage
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,888
Oh me...
Harmony...that's a spiritual act...yes? Would also harmony between those of different beliefs be spiritual too? Hows the record of harmony reflected between those that have different faiths recorded in time? Just some ponderances on my part...food for thought on spiritual matters maybe. Oh, never mind. No 
so that's a good thing.
Originally Posted by wpainterw
Spirituality, then, is senseless, nonsense. I humbly and respectfully disagree and I am joined in this by I estimate several billions of persons over around seven thousand centuries. In believing in "nonsense" at least I'm in good company!
so that's a good thing.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,366
I can (just about) define spirituality for myself, but I wouldn't presume to define it for others...
it's too personal IMO - not to mention I think it's trying to catch a gale with a sieve anyway....
I fear we're heading up an idealogical cul de sac here.
D
it's too personal IMO - not to mention I think it's trying to catch a gale with a sieve anyway....
I fear we're heading up an idealogical cul de sac here.
D
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