Rapid Recovery; AVRT
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by lund1982 
I find Rational Recovery severely offensive for a variety of different reasons. Their books aren't really books at all, but manifestos aimed at knocking AA & 12 step programs at every turn.
Originally Posted by lund1982
I think that Trimpey's whole idea that one can get sober on willpower alone by denying a "voice" is irresponsible & harmful to people who are struggling with addiction.
Originally Posted by lund1982
If people can stay sober using this method then more power to them, but what about the people who can't? I think that anyone that wants to stay sober has to do so with an open mind & explore all the options out there.
Originally Posted by lund1982
Aren't the little voices inside our head the root of the problem that kept us drinking or using time & again?
Originally Posted by lund1982
I know for a fact that my "rational" thinking can turn on me in a heartbeat &, no matter how much I want to quit, my thoughts alone are not going to keep me from getting drunk. I tried this method independently for 14 years with no results whatsoever. Ultimately, being sober is a gift no matter what program you use, but my advice to anyone is to explore all the options out there with an open mind if you want to really stop drinking or drugging once & for all.
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^^^^ Exellent, AVRT!
Originally Posted by AVRT
Although the name of the company is "Rational Recovery," it does not refer to "rational" in the Ellisian sense, as used in Rational-Emotive Therapy. AVRT is "rational" in the sense that it is "agreeable to reason, according to a logical thought process," but AVRT is actually absolutist, almost fanatical in its insistence on abstinence. There is no reasoning or arguing in AVRT, however. If you want "rational" in the form of Cost-Benefit analyses and debates over the pros and cons of drinking/using, which some people do, there is always SMART Recovery.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
...
4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
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Originally Posted by PaperDolls
4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by lund1982
Yes, AVRT, I would like you to cite the very many "severely offensive" passages from the Big Book and the 12x12.
Just pointing out that "severely offensive" is a matter of perspective - that's why I used quotes.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 35
There's nothing in the BB that is offensive. The program is there if you want it. I find it more offensive, AVRT, that people die every day as a result of the disease of addiction. I wish the best for you & everyone else out there no matter what my opinion on this matter is. My one hope is that people struggling know that there is help out there for free from people who genuinely care. Thankfully, AA has no dues or fees to pay & no axes to grind.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by lund1982
In my experience, ElvisInASkirt, it's a decision that's bound to change at any moment for someone who has substance abuse issues. Addiction is a cunning, baffling, & powerful thing. Our brains are lovely things, but they also have the power to deceive us, especially when you're using or struggling not to use. If there were a miracle cure for alcoholism, no one in the world would have these problems. Unfortunately, the reality is that all you need to do is look around you on any large city street to see how alcoholism & addiction are still ruining people's lives. I wonder how many such people, if given the book mentioned, would be helped by this sort of method? I've quit many times cold turkey with a determination to never drink again only to find myself back to square one when life didn't go the way I thought it should. I think that having an open mind & having the courage to ask for help are good for everyone no matter who they are. I got sober by working at it on a daily basis & doing things that weren't always comfortable for me to do, not by reading a book that demonizes things that have helped millions of others.
I think RR is very effective for atheists like myself who needed to snap out of addiction.
Addiction gets more cunning the more you feed it both mentally and physically. AVRT aims to cease feeding the addiction in both ways.
I'm never drinking again and there is no room for relapses.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
There are many many ways to quit drinking and improve your life...AA and AVRT are only 2....
Please do find whatever you think will work...if it does not...try another.
[Wishing everyone the peace and joy I've found...
Please do find whatever you think will work...if it does not...try another.
[Wishing everyone the peace and joy I've found...
Last edited by CarolD; 08-08-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 273
I remember once upon a time I read Chris Prentiss' Addiction Cure, and after reading the blurb about AVRT,
I see more similarities than I do differences, except for them purposely catering to those who have a beef with AA, hense the little digs about "hey, you don't have to ______".
I applaud anyone following a program to get sober. These differences to me are semantics.
I can say i'm self recovered too, using the format suggested by AA. It didn't work the first time I tried it, Prentiss' cure didn't work for me, but this time since I really wanted it to work, the rehab I went to used the AA 12 step program, and it worked. I successfully silenced that beast, and I feel it's once and for all.
I think if we set our mind to it, ANY program has the chance for 100% success.
I see more similarities than I do differences, except for them purposely catering to those who have a beef with AA, hense the little digs about "hey, you don't have to ______".
I applaud anyone following a program to get sober. These differences to me are semantics.
I can say i'm self recovered too, using the format suggested by AA. It didn't work the first time I tried it, Prentiss' cure didn't work for me, but this time since I really wanted it to work, the rehab I went to used the AA 12 step program, and it worked. I successfully silenced that beast, and I feel it's once and for all.
I think if we set our mind to it, ANY program has the chance for 100% success.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 609
I'm neither AA nor RR, though I've used aspects of both programs. I think you owe it to yourself to check out all avenues of recovery, I sure did when starting out. A lot of people find the anti AA sentiment in the RR materials off putting. AA isn't for everyone, a lot of people in AA will admit that, different things may work for different people.
I see pros and cons in just about every program out there, you have to try and balance them up. There's pros and cons in the 'powerless' or 'disease' model of alcoholism. It can work for you or against you, depending on how you apply it.
I'm of the philosophy if it's working for you, stick with it.
I see pros and cons in just about every program out there, you have to try and balance them up. There's pros and cons in the 'powerless' or 'disease' model of alcoholism. It can work for you or against you, depending on how you apply it.
I'm of the philosophy if it's working for you, stick with it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: midwest
Posts: 68
Avrt
I had no idea this subject was so sensitive to so many.
... of course we should all defend the program that works for us personally. It is our very belief in that program that contributes to our success.
... of course we should all defend the program that works for us personally. It is our very belief in that program that contributes to our success.
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Originally Posted by Raindance
I remember once upon a time I read Chris Prentiss' Addiction Cure, and after reading the blurb about AVRT, I see more similarities than I do differences, except for them purposely catering to those who have a beef with AA, hense the little digs about "hey, you don't have to ______".
Originally Posted by Raindance
I think if we set our mind to it, ANY program has the chance for 100% success.
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Originally Posted by 725bygrace
I had no idea this subject was so sensitive to so many.
... of course we should all defend the program that works for us personally. It is our very belief in that program that contributes to our success.
... of course we should all defend the program that works for us personally. It is our very belief in that program that contributes to our success.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 35
725bygrace, I really wish that you would try the other options that are available to you. Judging by your other posts & our interactions, it seems that you have a lot of preconceived notions about 12 step programs. Based on what you've been through, I think it would do you a world of good to explore what else is out there, because recovery is a life-long process. Talking to others who've went through similar ordeals allows for healing to happen, whether it be counseling or a support group.
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Originally Posted by AVRT
With AVRT, once securely abstinent, you are on your own.
For me, it's the dissociation that's key. There's ME and there's the AV. The AV is in not all powerful, I am. Once you split from the AV... realize it is not YOU. It's the addiction talking, it does set you free. It did for me anyway.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here, Now
Posts: 4,268
Why do any of us need to defend anything, or need to be defensive? Isn't SR all about our recovery (not just sobriety)? I'm here to support my recovery and here to support the recovery of others. I don't want to lose that premise or focus. I appreciate everyone who's on the journey on whatever path leads them out of the darkness and dispair of addiction. I'm kind of naive sometimes, though. Namaste
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by lund1982
There's nothing in the BB that is offensive. The program is there if you want it.
Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book" Online
Alcoholics Anonymous "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" Online
"Big Book" and "12x12" Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Michigan / California
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Originally Posted by 725bygrace
I had no idea this subject was so sensitive to so many.
... of course we should all defend the program that works for us personally. It is our very belief in that program that contributes to our success.
... of course we should all defend the program that works for us personally. It is our very belief in that program that contributes to our success.
What works for one will not work for the next.
You concentrate on what will work for you, and that is all that matters.
You are the most important before anyone else
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