Supporting Sobriety without supporting a program
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Legitimate point OTT and one we should all be willing to consider.
The rabbit hole goes even deeper I am afraid, and we struggle at times with issues involving our new lifestyle.... We are WILLING to work through these issues.... without that willingness, I would be concerned.
The rabbit hole goes even deeper I am afraid, and we struggle at times with issues involving our new lifestyle.... We are WILLING to work through these issues.... without that willingness, I would be concerned.
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I'm with Zencat, it's just not an issue I'd face anyway... all those meetings, nor would I drag my significant other through that. I feel for those who do this. It must be disruptive to a family/couple. My addiction was my problem to deal with head on... Not my signifcant other's responsbility. The hell I put him through ended when I stopped my addiction. He is thrilled and couldn't be happier at this moment.
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth 
And over the years I've repeatedly witnessed this attitude towards spouses and family members: that they, after having been abused by us, are expected quickly to fall in line with us being gone at meetings every night and join a parallel program whether that program suits their worldview or not.
I have to say, I think this adds insult to injury, and my suspicion is that it costs us our marriages at least as often as our drinking behavior does.
I have to say, I think this adds insult to injury, and my suspicion is that it costs us our marriages at least as often as our drinking behavior does.
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Obviously some divergent points of view here. Many threads say that Alonon is very important for the codependent, this thread is a bit contrary.
I'm happy for those who can work a program alone and "in their head."
That approach was very successful at getting me drunk.
My original sponsor says it is imperitive that "our sobriety and program of sobriety comes first, everything else after that. Becuase without sobriety, you will soon have nothing else."
I'm happy for those who can work a program alone and "in their head."
That approach was very successful at getting me drunk.
My original sponsor says it is imperitive that "our sobriety and program of sobriety comes first, everything else after that. Becuase without sobriety, you will soon have nothing else."
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I wonder if you can make time to do some special things with your wife to balance out the times you need to spend at meetings? Maybe she's just feeling lonely and that the issue of drinking/recovery has completely taken over her life. She's probably just mentally exhausted by it all, as I'm sure you are too. If she knew you'd be spending time with her doing something you both enjoy it might sit easier that you need to do the meetings for your mental and physical health. Think romance-fun-something different! Good Luck!
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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There are online meetings multiple times per day at aaonline.net, SR has a 12-Step forum, and AA Lamplighters has an active e-mail based group. Perhaps a shift in balance towards these avenues might allow you to stay home more and to assuage the situation?
Something to ponder.
Something to ponder.
My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Western Canada
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Control. The issue here is control. Negative or misguided control.
I got sober without a detox or treatment center, mainly because I felt I couldn't take time off work. My significant other brought me in to Al-Anon because she felt I was significantly impacted by a previous relationship and by my chidhood. She was right about that. However, after we were married, when we discovered to our surprise that I am an alcoholic, I started going to AA meetings often, sometimes without her permission.
She was no longer in control of my recovery. She hated that. We eventually divorced.
Your opening share says "the two recommended meetings a week."
Recommended by whom? The treatment centre? If so, then perhaps your wife feels, for whatever reason, that you need to stick to the letter of what the treatment centre recommends. Treatment centre personnel may be able to point out to your wife that recommendations are not rules. Recommended by your sponsor or someone else in AA? Bad news. Get new AA friends.
No one can tell you how many meetings a week you need. However, as others have pointed out, you have other obligations. There's a chapter in the AA Big Book that may be helpful: "To Wives". Here's a link: Big Book Online Fourth Edition .
All of the above is my opinion only, take it or leave it.
My sobriety date is Nov. 27, 1988.
I got sober without a detox or treatment center, mainly because I felt I couldn't take time off work. My significant other brought me in to Al-Anon because she felt I was significantly impacted by a previous relationship and by my chidhood. She was right about that. However, after we were married, when we discovered to our surprise that I am an alcoholic, I started going to AA meetings often, sometimes without her permission.
She was no longer in control of my recovery. She hated that. We eventually divorced.
Your opening share says "the two recommended meetings a week."
Recommended by whom? The treatment centre? If so, then perhaps your wife feels, for whatever reason, that you need to stick to the letter of what the treatment centre recommends. Treatment centre personnel may be able to point out to your wife that recommendations are not rules. Recommended by your sponsor or someone else in AA? Bad news. Get new AA friends.
No one can tell you how many meetings a week you need. However, as others have pointed out, you have other obligations. There's a chapter in the AA Big Book that may be helpful: "To Wives". Here's a link: Big Book Online Fourth Edition .
All of the above is my opinion only, take it or leave it.
My sobriety date is Nov. 27, 1988.
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Thanks Hector. Control has always been an issue in our relationship and our relationship has been dysfunctional due to my alcohol abuse.
Regarding the "two meetings per week," yes, is what the treatment center requires for compliance with the current outpatient agreement. 2 meetings are the minimum.
Since I am requesting a deferred prosecution for a DUI (the reason I finally decided to get sober) I have to follow treatment guidelines to the letter of the law - literally. The courts defer my compliance to the treatment center outpatient program.
Also, I have read the chapters "to the wives" and "the family afterward" aloud with my wife as I thought it would be helpful. Well, she is just as anti-BB as she is to alanon and I'm suspecting AA.
I'm going to discuss this with my sponsor tonight but I'm to the point now (for this and MANY other reasons) that I will focus on my program of sobriety and let my marriage take its natural course which seems like certain failure. I need to be strong and mentally healthy for my children.
Regarding the "two meetings per week," yes, is what the treatment center requires for compliance with the current outpatient agreement. 2 meetings are the minimum.
Since I am requesting a deferred prosecution for a DUI (the reason I finally decided to get sober) I have to follow treatment guidelines to the letter of the law - literally. The courts defer my compliance to the treatment center outpatient program.
Also, I have read the chapters "to the wives" and "the family afterward" aloud with my wife as I thought it would be helpful. Well, she is just as anti-BB as she is to alanon and I'm suspecting AA.
I'm going to discuss this with my sponsor tonight but I'm to the point now (for this and MANY other reasons) that I will focus on my program of sobriety and let my marriage take its natural course which seems like certain failure. I need to be strong and mentally healthy for my children.
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Originally Posted by StPeteGrad
Also, I have read the chapters "to the wives" and "the family afterward" aloud with my wife as I thought it would be helpful. Well, she is just as anti-BB as she is to alanon and I'm suspecting AA.
Yes, SPG... you focus on your recovery, and let her do whatever she needs to do... try to be patient with each other and offer only love and respect to one another...
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One has to remember that it was not an actual "wife" that wrote the "To Wives" chapter, but Bill Wilson.
From the Official AA FAQ:
Q. Who wrote Chapter 8 of the Big Book, “To Wives”?
A. Bill was the author of the ‘To Wives’ chapter. It is commonly thought that Lois wrote it. But, as Pass It On describes (page 200), Lois said, "Bill wrote it, and I was mad." She added, "I wasn't so much mad as hurt. I still don't know why Bill wrote it. I've never really gotten into it - why he insisted upon writing it. I said to him, 'Well, do you want me to write it?' And he said no, he thought it should be in the same style as the rest of the book."
From the Official AA FAQ:
Q. Who wrote Chapter 8 of the Big Book, “To Wives”?
A. Bill was the author of the ‘To Wives’ chapter. It is commonly thought that Lois wrote it. But, as Pass It On describes (page 200), Lois said, "Bill wrote it, and I was mad." She added, "I wasn't so much mad as hurt. I still don't know why Bill wrote it. I've never really gotten into it - why he insisted upon writing it. I said to him, 'Well, do you want me to write it?' And he said no, he thought it should be in the same style as the rest of the book."
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Originally Posted by StPeteGrad
Obviously some divergent points of view here. Many threads say that Alonon is very important for the codependent, this thread is a bit contrary.
I'm happy for those who can work a program alone and "in their head."
That approach was very successful at getting me drunk.
My original sponsor says it is imperitive that "our sobriety and program of sobriety comes first, everything else after that. Becuase without sobriety, you will soon have nothing else."
I'm happy for those who can work a program alone and "in their head."
That approach was very successful at getting me drunk.
My original sponsor says it is imperitive that "our sobriety and program of sobriety comes first, everything else after that. Becuase without sobriety, you will soon have nothing else."
The point is that the fact that we have chosen a particular recovery program or philosophy for ourselves does not give us the right to choose it for someone else, including a spouse (or indeed to diagnose them as "codependent" and in need of a program). Nor does it give us the right to ignore or dismiss the expressed needs of our spouses and family members.
To PM: I applaud you for bringing up this issue because I think it is an important one and your bringing it up means that you are thinking about your wife's feelings and opinions rather than just dismissing them out of hand. I hope you haven't taken my comments here as too harsh towards you. I just think that sometimes in our excitement about finding a path that is working for us, we make the mistake of assuming that now everyone around us must feel as we do, "get it" the way we do, and accept our behavior without complaint no matter what the consequences to them may be.
OTT
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Lois Wilson did what she needed to do. She obviously loved Bill W. Very much, and vice versa...
What did wives in the 1930's do to keep their sanity and their family in the face of chronic alcoholism, hopelessness, and all that. Women had not even had the right to vote for too long when that chapter was written...
My wife has no use whatsoever for that chapter either. Not that I blame her, but an underlying message is, I think, is let your husband or wife do what needs to be done, because remember, this is a fatal malady... And, more importantly, to find their own way, recover themselves, and to, perhaps, to trust their own higher power.
I totally agree with OTT's point that no spouse should have his or her own inventory taken by an outsider. Just because a spouse finds that the one they love is alcoholic does not mean that they are automatically codependent or sick themselves... However it seems that there should be some support available if they choose to accept it...
Or, they could just leave the sorry assed drunk and go on with their life...
What did wives in the 1930's do to keep their sanity and their family in the face of chronic alcoholism, hopelessness, and all that. Women had not even had the right to vote for too long when that chapter was written...
My wife has no use whatsoever for that chapter either. Not that I blame her, but an underlying message is, I think, is let your husband or wife do what needs to be done, because remember, this is a fatal malady... And, more importantly, to find their own way, recover themselves, and to, perhaps, to trust their own higher power.
I totally agree with OTT's point that no spouse should have his or her own inventory taken by an outsider. Just because a spouse finds that the one they love is alcoholic does not mean that they are automatically codependent or sick themselves... However it seems that there should be some support available if they choose to accept it...
Or, they could just leave the sorry assed drunk and go on with their life...
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Originally Posted by StPeteGrad
Also, I have read the chapters "to the wives" and "the family afterward" aloud with my wife as I thought it would be helpful. Well, she is just as anti-BB as she is to alanon and I'm suspecting AA.
I'm going to discuss this with my sponsor tonight but I'm to the point now (for this and MANY other reasons) that I will focus on my program of sobriety and let my marriage take its natural course which seems like certain failure. I need to be strong and mentally healthy for my children.
I'm going to discuss this with my sponsor tonight but I'm to the point now (for this and MANY other reasons) that I will focus on my program of sobriety and let my marriage take its natural course which seems like certain failure. I need to be strong and mentally healthy for my children.
There are times when some of us truly do need to choose between our sobriety/health and our marriages. I did, myself. It turned out that my first marriage could not survive once I gained some perspective and attained mental health.
So I am not someone who could ever advocate for staying in a bad marriage no matter what. What really concerns me here is that you seem to be insisting that your wife accept your VERY newfound philosophy of life and that if she doesn't, you're giving up hope.
But honestly, your wife can love you without loving AA. She can get absolutely nothing from the Big Book, and still love you.
I truly and strongly recommend that you get couple's counseling, and preferably from someone who is not simply a 12 step based addictions counselor, someone who can see the big picture and really help you with this.
OTT
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