Doctors field new addiction specialty
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Originally Posted by Mark75 
But I didn't see or hear anything about this research enabling people to forget that they were addicted or alcoholic, did you?
Scientists studying stroke patients are reporting today that an injury to a specific part of the brain, near the ear, can instantly and permanently break a smoking habit. People with the injury who stopped smoking found that their bodies, as one man put it, “forgot the urge to smoke.”
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Yea, I would have appreciated an easier re-entry, LOL... But that was my journey, a difficult time... With urges, PAWS, guilt and shame...
And yet, I am here, I am recovered and definately not helpless...
Thanx for taking my comments in stride and maybe advancing each other's understanding just a little ....
And yet, I am here, I am recovered and definately not helpless...
Thanx for taking my comments in stride and maybe advancing each other's understanding just a little ....
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Originally Posted by Mark75
Powerless does not equal helpless...
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Finally got to read it 
to bring it back to the OP....
I'm not a great one for Drs but I'd certainly prefer more doctors knew more about addiction than they have in the past, based on my personal experience.
I certainly agree that addiction changes the brain, as this article suggests.
But as a multiple stroke survivor and a man born with cerebral palsy I know for a fact the brain can relearn functions, and it certainly can make new connections.
Our past need not define our future - but we can't dismiss it either.
I know it's tempting to want to put addiction behind us, but personally I don't have any problem with believing I need to work on my alcoholism everyday, just as I have to work on my overall physical condition and keeping up my cognitive skills.
I accept who I am, in all aspects - it doesn't lessen me to do that IMO
D
to bring it back to the OP....
I'm not a great one for Drs but I'd certainly prefer more doctors knew more about addiction than they have in the past, based on my personal experience.
I certainly agree that addiction changes the brain, as this article suggests.
But as a multiple stroke survivor and a man born with cerebral palsy I know for a fact the brain can relearn functions, and it certainly can make new connections.
Our past need not define our future - but we can't dismiss it either.
I know it's tempting to want to put addiction behind us, but personally I don't have any problem with believing I need to work on my alcoholism everyday, just as I have to work on my overall physical condition and keeping up my cognitive skills.
I accept who I am, in all aspects - it doesn't lessen me to do that IMO
D
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I pretty much expected the cons presented. I wonder if all who did reply that they knew all about the model already, actually read the whole article instead of a quick scan.
Pointing to past books and disease models as deficient or personally unhelpful is all well and good, unless you are saying that about a brand new emerging group of Docs in this new specialty program.
This has not been done before. The whole idea of the article is that these folks are not following the schemas of the past and that this is seminal. I'll try to help with some bolding and colors, perhaps it will become clear that this program is only a week and a half old.
Excerpt:
"In the latest evidence, 10 medical institutions have just introduced the first accredited residency programs in addiction medicine, where doctors who have completed medical school and a primary residency will be able to spend a year studying the relationship between addiction and brain chemistry.
“This is a first step toward bringing recognition, respectability and rigor to addiction medicine,” said David Withers, who oversees the new residency program at the Marworth Alcohol and Chemical Dependency Treatment Center in Waverly, Pa."
How about this excerpt?
"The goal of the residency programs, which started July 1 with 20 students at the various institutions, is to establish addiction medicine as a standard specialty along the lines of pediatrics, oncology or dermatology.
I am not being argumentative with the replies, but since the NEW residency programs at the various institutions is new, having just started July 1st, I wonder how the research this new crop of doctors has been experienced and read about by many of the posters when they haven't even completed their residencies yet.
C'mon folks read the whole article.
There is more than one way, or at least there is for many of us. Something that works for me that is different than what works for you, the operative term being works, is not automatically a threat to you and your beliefs. And since I am a nice guy, I wouldn't be doing that anyway.
But it might be a bit premature to declare a program a failure that hasn't graduated its first class of specialists yet. Don't y'all think?
I believe sobriety to be a bit like Burger King. As long as it works for you, have it your way!
Pointing to past books and disease models as deficient or personally unhelpful is all well and good, unless you are saying that about a brand new emerging group of Docs in this new specialty program.
This has not been done before. The whole idea of the article is that these folks are not following the schemas of the past and that this is seminal. I'll try to help with some bolding and colors, perhaps it will become clear that this program is only a week and a half old.
Excerpt:
"In the latest evidence, 10 medical institutions have just introduced the first accredited residency programs in addiction medicine, where doctors who have completed medical school and a primary residency will be able to spend a year studying the relationship between addiction and brain chemistry.
“This is a first step toward bringing recognition, respectability and rigor to addiction medicine,” said David Withers, who oversees the new residency program at the Marworth Alcohol and Chemical Dependency Treatment Center in Waverly, Pa."
How about this excerpt?
"The goal of the residency programs, which started July 1 with 20 students at the various institutions, is to establish addiction medicine as a standard specialty along the lines of pediatrics, oncology or dermatology.
I am not being argumentative with the replies, but since the NEW residency programs at the various institutions is new, having just started July 1st, I wonder how the research this new crop of doctors has been experienced and read about by many of the posters when they haven't even completed their residencies yet.
C'mon folks read the whole article.
There is more than one way, or at least there is for many of us. Something that works for me that is different than what works for you, the operative term being works, is not automatically a threat to you and your beliefs. And since I am a nice guy, I wouldn't be doing that anyway.But it might be a bit premature to declare a program a failure that hasn't graduated its first class of specialists yet. Don't y'all think?
I believe sobriety to be a bit like Burger King. As long as it works for you, have it your way!
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Originally Posted by Itchy
I pretty much expected the cons presented. I wonder if all who did reply that they knew all about the model already, actually read the whole article instead of a quick scan.
Nora D. Volkow is in charge of National Institute on Drug Abuse; her history, and that of NIDA, speaks for itself.
ABAM is an offshoot of ASAM, and has permanent slots in its board of directors for ASAM. Its history speaks for itself.
Dr. David Withers, who oversees the new residency program at the Marworth Alcohol and Chemical Dependency Treatment Center in Waverly, Pa, and who is quoted in the article, has given lectures on "Spirituality and Recovery."
I didn't take the time to look into all the others mentioned, but I got the general idea of who the key players are. Although I would like to view this as revolutionary, given the players involved, I conclude that this is probably more of the same.
Call me a cynic.
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AVRT,
I won't call you anything at all.
I had to look up AVRT and Rational recovery to understand the tone of your posts. I understand now. For those as understandably confused at these posts I did some research and found what I consider to be a well balanced and impartial view of both RR and AVRT, which are the same really. I actually have more confidence in the docs now that you mentioned AVRT, so thanks for that.
AVRT here is my answer to you once and for all in the form of a blog. I take that view of it now too. BTW that pic is not the author, click on the meet TDA tab and you will see that's a really good blog about recovery.
I also don't allow the little old ladies that go around with a bible in their hands into my house, yet am not rude with them. Obviously what they believe in works for them and I am glad it does. I will simply agree to disagree with you. And congratulate you on your way that works for you. That is the limit of my attention for you and AVRT and Rational Recovery the book. You see I don't have a dog in your fight or debate. I am already recovered.
I won't call you anything at all.
I had to look up AVRT and Rational recovery to understand the tone of your posts. I understand now. For those as understandably confused at these posts I did some research and found what I consider to be a well balanced and impartial view of both RR and AVRT, which are the same really. I actually have more confidence in the docs now that you mentioned AVRT, so thanks for that.
AVRT here is my answer to you once and for all in the form of a blog. I take that view of it now too. BTW that pic is not the author, click on the meet TDA tab and you will see that's a really good blog about recovery.
I also don't allow the little old ladies that go around with a bible in their hands into my house, yet am not rude with them. Obviously what they believe in works for them and I am glad it does. I will simply agree to disagree with you. And congratulate you on your way that works for you. That is the limit of my attention for you and AVRT and Rational Recovery the book. You see I don't have a dog in your fight or debate. I am already recovered.
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Originally Posted by Itchy
I pretty much expected the cons presented. I wonder if all who did reply that they knew all about the model already, actually read the whole article instead of a quick scan.
Pointing to past books and disease models as deficient or personally unhelpful is all well and good, unless you are saying that about a brand new emerging group of Docs in this new specialty program.
This has not been done before. The whole idea of the article is that these folks are not following the schemas of the past and that this is seminal. I'll try to help with some bolding and colors, perhaps it will become clear that this program is only a week and a half old.
Excerpt:
"In the latest evidence, 10 medical institutions have just introduced the first accredited residency programs in addiction medicine, where doctors who have completed medical school and a primary residency will be able to spend a year studying the relationship between addiction and brain chemistry.
“This is a first step toward bringing recognition, respectability and rigor to addiction medicine,” said David Withers, who oversees the new residency program at the Marworth Alcohol and Chemical Dependency Treatment Center in Waverly, Pa."
How about this excerpt?
"The goal of the residency programs, which started July 1 with 20 students at the various institutions, is to establish addiction medicine as a standard specialty along the lines of pediatrics, oncology or dermatology.
I am not being argumentative with the replies, but since the NEW residency programs at the various institutions is new, having just started July 1st, I wonder how the research this new crop of doctors has been experienced and read about by many of the posters when they haven't even completed their residencies yet.
C'mon folks read the whole article. There is more than one way, or at least there is for many of us. Something that works for me that is different than what works for you, the operative term being works, is not automatically a threat to you and your beliefs. And since I am a nice guy, I wouldn't be doing that anyway.
But it might be a bit premature to declare a program a failure that hasn't graduated its first class of specialists yet. Don't y'all think?
I believe sobriety to be a bit like Burger King. As long as it works for you, have it your way!
Pointing to past books and disease models as deficient or personally unhelpful is all well and good, unless you are saying that about a brand new emerging group of Docs in this new specialty program.
This has not been done before. The whole idea of the article is that these folks are not following the schemas of the past and that this is seminal. I'll try to help with some bolding and colors, perhaps it will become clear that this program is only a week and a half old.
Excerpt:
"In the latest evidence, 10 medical institutions have just introduced the first accredited residency programs in addiction medicine, where doctors who have completed medical school and a primary residency will be able to spend a year studying the relationship between addiction and brain chemistry.
“This is a first step toward bringing recognition, respectability and rigor to addiction medicine,” said David Withers, who oversees the new residency program at the Marworth Alcohol and Chemical Dependency Treatment Center in Waverly, Pa."
How about this excerpt?
"The goal of the residency programs, which started July 1 with 20 students at the various institutions, is to establish addiction medicine as a standard specialty along the lines of pediatrics, oncology or dermatology.
I am not being argumentative with the replies, but since the NEW residency programs at the various institutions is new, having just started July 1st, I wonder how the research this new crop of doctors has been experienced and read about by many of the posters when they haven't even completed their residencies yet.
C'mon folks read the whole article.
There is more than one way, or at least there is for many of us. Something that works for me that is different than what works for you, the operative term being works, is not automatically a threat to you and your beliefs. And since I am a nice guy, I wouldn't be doing that anyway.But it might be a bit premature to declare a program a failure that hasn't graduated its first class of specialists yet. Don't y'all think?
I believe sobriety to be a bit like Burger King. As long as it works for you, have it your way!
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
I read the article and was concerned with the implication that alcoholism might be described exclusively as a neurological "disease" which requires "treatment" by "experts". I sometimes wonder whether alcoholism is like the proverbial elephant in Hindu mythology which several blind men attempted to describe. One holding the leg said it was a tree, another holding an ear said it was a gigantic leaf, another holding the trunk said that it was a wrinkled hose, etc. etc. Could alcoholism be like that, and indeed be even more complicated by the possibility that there may be as many different varieties of alcoholism as there are alcoholics?
Could alcoholism be then a complex ailment which may result from genetic abnormalities, personality characteristics (the more pejorative Big Book term is "character defects"), cultural factors (e.g. college drinking), family attitudes (e.g. enabling, modeling), psychiatric conditions (e.g. bipolar), parental abuse, trauma (e.g. battle injury)... The list goes on and on.
Added to all this is the inevitable effect on the body of drinking alcohol over long periods of time, and the astonishing way the body has to change its chemical and neurological structure to adapt to the invasive fluid. The chemistry changes, the receptors change, the neurons change in other ways. And, to complicate the situation even further, all these changes may differ depending on the genetic or otherwise inherited physical characteristics of the alcoholic.
Is all this important to an alcoholic? Yes and no. Important if it influences the type of treatment he or she gets and his or her attitude towards that treatment (such as "Do I just sit there and let the doctors take over or do I have some real responsibility to do my part in getting well?")
At the end of the day I can and should speak only for myself. There came a time when I decided to stop reading the books, trying to find out what alcoholism "is", and focus on how to get myself out of that mess. And I found that I could not do it by myself or even with 1-1 treatment by a physician or counselor. I had to have the help of other alcoholics. They were there to help me and it worked, or at least it's worked so far, for 23 years. It was AA but it didn't have to be. It could have been some other program. At least I think that is true, but who am I to say?
W.
Could alcoholism be then a complex ailment which may result from genetic abnormalities, personality characteristics (the more pejorative Big Book term is "character defects"), cultural factors (e.g. college drinking), family attitudes (e.g. enabling, modeling), psychiatric conditions (e.g. bipolar), parental abuse, trauma (e.g. battle injury)... The list goes on and on.
Added to all this is the inevitable effect on the body of drinking alcohol over long periods of time, and the astonishing way the body has to change its chemical and neurological structure to adapt to the invasive fluid. The chemistry changes, the receptors change, the neurons change in other ways. And, to complicate the situation even further, all these changes may differ depending on the genetic or otherwise inherited physical characteristics of the alcoholic.
Is all this important to an alcoholic? Yes and no. Important if it influences the type of treatment he or she gets and his or her attitude towards that treatment (such as "Do I just sit there and let the doctors take over or do I have some real responsibility to do my part in getting well?")
At the end of the day I can and should speak only for myself. There came a time when I decided to stop reading the books, trying to find out what alcoholism "is", and focus on how to get myself out of that mess. And I found that I could not do it by myself or even with 1-1 treatment by a physician or counselor. I had to have the help of other alcoholics. They were there to help me and it worked, or at least it's worked so far, for 23 years. It was AA but it didn't have to be. It could have been some other program. At least I think that is true, but who am I to say?
W.
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Painter,
Congrats on the 23 years!
I feel the same way. I used AA but not all of it, as well as an in hospital detox at the VA hospital which I c volunteered for and initiated, and the support of a great family and friends, as well as being here. I found the psychiatrists less than helpful, more attuned to the counselors. The VA docs got a bit out of hand and were trying to order me to take some other drugs and I went back to my regular doc and everything is fine now. His tests disagreed with theirs. But they were excellent for the detox.
I look at the new specialty as I do the current ones. My doc just prescribed a drug that I won't take. He is used to this from me and I will make some diet and lifestyle changtes and see if they eliminate the need of any dangerous drugs to alleviate the cause of the symptoms.
We have to take part in our own care and be vigilant. But we need our docs too or we could become Internet hypochondriacs, or worse, become worse.
Balance in all things and excess in none is a hard lesson to learn for us. I used to be proud when I was described as an all or nothing kind of guy. Not so much now.
Congrats on the 23 years!
I feel the same way. I used AA but not all of it, as well as an in hospital detox at the VA hospital which I c volunteered for and initiated, and the support of a great family and friends, as well as being here. I found the psychiatrists less than helpful, more attuned to the counselors. The VA docs got a bit out of hand and were trying to order me to take some other drugs and I went back to my regular doc and everything is fine now. His tests disagreed with theirs. But they were excellent for the detox.
I look at the new specialty as I do the current ones. My doc just prescribed a drug that I won't take. He is used to this from me and I will make some diet and lifestyle changtes and see if they eliminate the need of any dangerous drugs to alleviate the cause of the symptoms.
We have to take part in our own care and be vigilant. But we need our docs too or we could become Internet hypochondriacs, or worse, become worse.
Balance in all things and excess in none is a hard lesson to learn for us. I used to be proud when I was described as an all or nothing kind of guy. Not so much now.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Posts: 487
Sober Jennie
I went to a rehab that was based on everything you described. There is no magic pill but you are correct about vitamins and meds that help your body recover. I hope to see more rehabs become available, unfortunately they require more overhead with expert physicians, great therapists for more one-on-one therapy and CBT counselors.
Treatment costs money, it would be nice if the gov't would fund a program that actually worked.
SH
I went to a rehab that was based on everything you described. There is no magic pill but you are correct about vitamins and meds that help your body recover. I hope to see more rehabs become available, unfortunately they require more overhead with expert physicians, great therapists for more one-on-one therapy and CBT counselors.
Treatment costs money, it would be nice if the gov't would fund a program that actually worked.
SH
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by stanleyhouse
it would be nice if the gov't would fund a program that actually worked.
SH
SH
) and is available to anyone in the entire world..........the problem isn't the lack of a program.......the problem is lack of willingness on the part of the individuals to try/do something they don't "feel like" doing or fully understand - the problem is our fault.......not "the governments"
but I digress....and am sorry to divert the thread.....so back to your regularly scheduled comments.
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Here's the real deal:
No single treatment is appropriate for everyone. Matching treatment settings, interventions, and services to an individual's particular problems and needs is critical to his or her ultimate success in returning to productive functioning in the family, workplace, and society.
Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment
Its not the individuals fault that one program disrespects ones world view. Such program becomes useless regarding of willingness to do something damaging to ones life, recovery chances, ones peace of mind. The whole **** and bull story of one way of recovery mode is appropriate for everybody needs to be debunked at every chance on a recovery site that honers all ways to recover.
No single treatment is appropriate for everyone. Matching treatment settings, interventions, and services to an individual's particular problems and needs is critical to his or her ultimate success in returning to productive functioning in the family, workplace, and society.
Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment
Originally Posted by DayTrader
the problem isn't the lack of a program.......the problem is lack of willingness on the part of the individuals to try/do something they don't "feel like" doing or fully understand - the problem is our fault.......not "the governments"
Last edited by Dee74; 07-14-2011 at 03:30 AM.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Zencat
Here's the real deal:
No single treatment is appropriate for everyone. Matching treatment settings, interventions, and services to an individual's particular problems and needs is critical to his or her ultimate success in returning to productive functioning in the family, workplace, and society.
Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment
Its not the individuals fault that one program disrespects ones world view. Such program becomes useless regarding of willingness to do something damaging to ones life, recovery chances, ones peace of mind. The whole **** and bull story of one way of recovery mode is appropriate for everybody needs to be debunked at every chance on a recovery site that honers all ways to recover.
No single treatment is appropriate for everyone. Matching treatment settings, interventions, and services to an individual's particular problems and needs is critical to his or her ultimate success in returning to productive functioning in the family, workplace, and society.
Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment
Its not the individuals fault that one program disrespects ones world view. Such program becomes useless regarding of willingness to do something damaging to ones life, recovery chances, ones peace of mind. The whole **** and bull story of one way of recovery mode is appropriate for everybody needs to be debunked at every chance on a recovery site that honers all ways to recover.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Seems to me that the bottom line in this is to observe a pragmatic approach- that is focus on ways to stop drinking and focus on stuff that works to do that, recognizing that what may work for one person may not work for another person. Over speculation on what "alcoholism" "is" or what "causes" it may be a diversion from the job of really starting recovery. Recovery is a hard enough job as it is- at least it was for me. If the doctors want to develop new programs, then that's all well and good and when the day comes when the government wants to put more money into rehabs instead of jails then that sounds good too.
W.
W.
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Posts: 7,583
Thanks folks, that is exactly why I posted the article here. For anybody that knows me I used everything at my disposal which included my doctors, AA for a time, counseling, and the eclectic group here at SR. While it seems that some folks are bit more loyal to their recovery method, who am I to start trying to poke holes in it especially if it worked for them. Here on SR there are people who struggled like me with a variety of recovery methods and plans and books and posts. The only important word in the last sentence is recovery.
I will continue to post news when I find it. As always, just like I did, take what you can use and leave the rest.
I will continue to post news when I find it. As always, just like I did, take what you can use and leave the rest.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Almost choked
Originally Posted by AVRT
My parents sent me this article, also under the auspices of it being a must read. I'm the only one in my family with this "problem," as far as I know, so I can understand the comfort my parents may get from thinking that their son is a poor disease victim. It must be somewhat comforting to think that I have a disease instead of just being a stupid dumb ***.
But I almost choked on my coffee and rolled over laughing when I read the above paragraph. Especially the last sentence.
I do think that many find comfort in having a "diagnosis" instead of a "problem", with the former identifying something treatable ("poor disease victim") and the latter suggesting a perhaps "flawed" individual ("stupid dumb").
I am thrilled that maybe the medical field will finally come to understand the brain chemistry behind addiction, but let's just see where that gets us.
Unfortunately, the practice of medicine has become a corporate enterprise with profit and loss margins being more important than the individual. Our elderly are now "throwaways" instead of the wise sages looked to for advice in other, older cultures. "Addicts" are relegated to the same fate.
Maybe the medical field will finally come to understand that the most "ill" addicts only become "bottom feeders" after addiction has led them there, and that addicts are present within EVERY level of society. I hate to use those terms, but the "stigma" of addiction frequently alluded to does bring out the prejudice in even the most well intentioned providers. (PS -- I am calling NO ONE here a "bottom feeder" -- it is just a commonly held erroneous belief of a lot of people, especially medical providers.)
Okay, now I'll read the article....
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Okay, gang, numerous posts were removed from this thread. Please keep personal comments to PM, not the boards.
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4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
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