NYCDoglvr

NO. I was an agnostic when I entered the rooms of AA and 20 years later I'm still an agnostic. It says in the Big Book that we should pick "a god of our understanding". For me God = Group of Drinks.

LosingmyMisery

I can't tell you whether or not AA will work for you or not. It worked for me and honestly, I was shocked when I first starting going to AA. I had no idea about the Lord's prayer or about the "God" thing. I was not interested in finding "religion", but was interested in getting sober. I wanted it more than anything. I made it work and got past the rest. I was pleasantly surprised with what I did find.

Recovery is not about build your own recovery program to suit your likes or needs. It is about what are you willing to do to get sober? There are other programs our there, yes. I used what was available to me and there was only one gig in town. It was take it or leave it. I took it and moved past the parts of the program I didn't agree with or made me cringe. I think face to face programs are important followed with online support.

Don't be discouraged. If you really want this you can do this. I know you are getting a lot of opinions and information thrown at you. Give it a try and see what happens. Good luck...

LosingmyMisery

This is the Newcomers forum and there is a lot of confusing information being tossed around here. For example, the oxford group, etc. These topics are perfectly fine to debate in the AA forum, perhaps, but sticking to the basics may be better here in the Newcomers forum. When I was first looking for sobriety my head was spinning with everything that was happening. I was very confused. No, I was not looking for religion, but was looking for sobriety. I found it in AA. I would never discourage anyone from trying "any" program. As I mentioned in my earlier post, at first I was surprised and turned off by "some" of the program. However, I worked through it to make it work. It was worth it.

I don't think there is any program that is going to be perfect for everyone. Having an open mind and being willing to step out of our comfort zone is vital in any program. Planting our feet firmly and saying I want sobriety is not going to work. We must be willing to bend and taking some steps forward in new directions. I like to keep that in mind when giving advice and posting. I share my experience and do not discourage anyone from working any program.

LexieCat

I know the AA of MY experience is not a religious program. If religion helps someone, great, but in MY experience, it isn't a requirement at all.

I will not try to convince those whose minds are firmly shut on the topic. For those who have not formed a firm opinion I would encourage you to see for yourself. Make up your own mind. And in doing so, consider whether your own beliefs and prejudices (and we ALL have them, and they affect our thinking to one degree or another) might be getting in the way of something that just might work for you.

Terminally Unique

I'll agree with LexieCat here.

If anyone is in doubt, I recommend reading the doctrinal literature of AA, which consists of the "Big Book" and "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" - both available for free online from AA.

The Big Book Online - 4th Edition

Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions Online

Big Book and 12x12 linked with general permission from AAWS.

LosingmyMisery

Again, this is the newcomer forum. Any extra "knowledge" can be confusing.

The right tools are necessary for recovery, I agree with that. However, how do we know what the right tools are? I never tried sobriety before. I had no idea what would work for me. I knew I had to quit drinking, but how do I do that? I was clueless. I worked what was available. Coming from a small town, many recovery programs were not readily available. IMO, face to face recovery is very important. Especially in early recovery.

Many of us have had negative experiences we could throw out there. I've had bad experiences in my recovery with my choice of recovery. I share it when I feel it may be useful. Otherwise, tossing it out there is confusing. I am not here to confuse or taut "my way". There is room for other ways of recovery. I try not to promote, but use what worked for me by way of availability.

Zencat

That's it really, to know what it is like to be in AA is to experience it. Like Carol wrote, try a few meetings and I'll add read the BB. The program in AA is explained in the first 164 pages I believe. Not a daunting read by any means.

The AA Big Book online edition.

BackToSquareOne

Isn't it really about what the person is looking for? AA seems to be about changing the essence of a man/woman (a pretty tall order), and a good thing in many cases. AA members don't go around with machine guns kidnapping people and forcing it on them. It's freely offered if you want it. If you just want to quit drinking there are many other ways to do that which seem effective.

susanlauren

Dano1975,
My advice to you is to keep an open mind. There are many recovery programs available. AA has no monopoly on recovery. Find what works for you. Consider SMART, AA, LifeRing, Rational Recovery and whatever else you find. Follow your conscience.

But remember that you get out of a program what you put into it. If you just go to meetings, you will not get the full benefit of the AA program. Most people who are successful at AA get a sponsor and commit themselves to working the steps.

I have learned by my life experiences that when someone gives an opinion seething with resentment, then that opinion is more about the person who gave it as compared to the actual merits of what the opinion is supposedly about. I listen, but I am very careful.

I have found recovery and a life far better than anything I have known through AA. That has been my journey. I, and the other AAers on this thread, have suggested that you keep an open mind about recovery programs. We have not criticized other programs.

There is no membership drive in AA. The AA program is based upon attraction not promotion. My hope for you is that you find sobriety and recovery, through whatever program you choose that works for you.
Susan

susanlauren

Dano1975,
In case you haven't noticed, there is a group of folks who are anti-AA and who are very vocal about it. You will find multiple websites, books, blogs, etc. with this sentiment. Many of these individuals and groups have the stated intent of tearing AA down, discrediting AA, exposing AA as a supposed cult, etc. Some promote their own books this way (i.e., the program I have developed works while the AA program does not).

AA's response, on the other hand, can be summarized in three of its traditions.

(5) Each group has but one primary purpose -- to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

(10) Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

(11) Our public relations policy is based upon attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

So what you will see is that AA as an organization is not defending itself, is not fighting or arguing back against this anti-AA movement. Individual AA members may have some things to say to and about the anti-AAers, but no individual member speaks on behalf of AA. It is impossible to have an argument with someone (or something) that doesn't take the bait and argue back. AA is freely available for anyone who wants it.

Please, consider and explore your recovery options and decide for yourself. If the path you initially choose doesn't work, then try something else.
Susan

miamifella

I always wondered why every meeting ends with the "Our Father." At the very least the closing prayer should be non-denominational.

And if it is not a religious program, then why close with a Christian prayer?

Terminally Unique

In other words, lots of promotion.

I wasn't going to respond to this "attraction, not promotion" line, but since this is your second post on it, here is an AA commercial from the 80's:

YouTube - Alcoholics Anonymous commercial

Here is another from 2008:

YouTube - Alcoholics Anonymous 2008 PSA - "I Thought"

They even show people's faces and therefore break anonymity while promoting AA. So much for Tradition 11.

There are more examples, particularly from countries outside the US, where AA commercials often air on national television regularly (read: every single day).

susanlauren

Miamifella,
The "Lord's Prayer" has been a longstanding tradition as to how the meetings are closed in AA. I view the prayer as being pretty widely accepted and pretty generic. I think its use has more to do with tradition than anything else. A number of the meetings I attend open with the Responsiblity Statement and close with the Serenity Prayer. If it bothers you, my suggestion would be to stand quietly and not say it or to bring it up at your group conscious meeting and see if the group will agree to a different closing.


AVRT,
Most people who have a disagreement with an individual or an organization agree to disagree and then go on with their lives. You have found a solution that works for you. I am happy for you. Obviously you do not agree with the AA program of recovery, for whatever reason(s). Why are you investing all this time, effort and energy to criticize, and denigrate the AA program? Are you out to save the world from AA? Are you out to expose AA as a supposed fraud or supposed cult? Why? What is your payoff here?

Susan

LosingmyMisery

I'd be willing to bet those faces were "actors" and got paid for their services.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

I understand there is more than one program of recovery. I'd rather discuss what worked for me, not trash a program not of my choice.

susanlauren

LosingMyMisery: I understand there is more than one program of recovery. I'd rather discuss what worked for me, not trash a program not of my choice.

Your comment raises some interesting questions, doesn't it? Why would someone not want to discuss what works for them? Why would someone instead want to trash a program that wasn't their choice of programs?

Mark75

I wonder sometimes why I react so strongly, either in a post, or silently when someone says... "AA is a religious program"

Is it because I hate to see those who profess concern about a program that they have yet to investigate, for themselves, in person, face to face, that they may be dissuaded from AA before even trying it?

Or, is it because stating that AA religious is considered a denigration? While I don't agree, it is spiritual, is it such a bad thing really...

Terminally Unique

I also wonder why people react so strongly. Unless they think that religion is "bad", why would they consider it a denigration?

The Salvation Army, whose program for the rehabilitation of alcoholics predates AA, does not, and has not ever, hidden the fact that their recovery program is religious. They seem to be doing just fine.

least

Without having read the entire thread, I'll just add my two cents...


I've been to many AA meetings and what I've found is that AA has a lot of very religious members. I've been preached at by some members and told my perspective will send me to hell. I've been told I'm not really a christian if I don't hold certain views.

What I do is just ignore that person in the future and not attend those meetings where I know those people will be.

The point I'm trying to make is that tho AA is not a religious program, per se, it has a lot of very religious members who give their religious views whether you asked for them or not. So no, AA is not religious, but it's hard to believe that sometimes due to the behavior of some of their members.

CarolD

This thread is closed for review by our SR Forum Team.
This vickering will stop. How disheartening it is for me to see rants and raves..what program is that?

Dee74

Thanks Carol.
I removed a slough of posts that contravened our rule 4, or responded to those posts.

I see no reason to open this thread again.

I think Dano's got enough information and opinions to be going on with.
Time to move on.

D