Advice on 'tapering'? (Cutting down before quitting)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of France
Posts: 19
Advice on 'tapering'? (Cutting down before quitting)
Hi everyone,
I'm planning to start cutting down next week, with a detailed and monitored plan. I prefer this idea to an absolute stop. I plan 3 weeks of reduced intake (reducing each week) before quitting altogether.
I did this when I quit smoking and it worked. However a lot of people seem to advise against this approach.
I know we're all different but I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.
Greetings from the South of France
I'm planning to start cutting down next week, with a detailed and monitored plan. I prefer this idea to an absolute stop. I plan 3 weeks of reduced intake (reducing each week) before quitting altogether.
I did this when I quit smoking and it worked. However a lot of people seem to advise against this approach.
I know we're all different but I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.
Greetings from the South of France
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,443
Tapering never worked for me, I'm afraid.
It's a bit of a paradox to me - I can't control my drinking - so I'll control my drinking and taper off....
I think you're far better seeing a Dr who understands about detox and withdrawal and and detoxing with medical assistance.
D
It's a bit of a paradox to me - I can't control my drinking - so I'll control my drinking and taper off....
I think you're far better seeing a Dr who understands about detox and withdrawal and and detoxing with medical assistance.
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of France
Posts: 19
Hi Dee,
Thanks for your reply - you seem to be a really supportive person.
I know I won't just be able to cut down. I have to quit completely. What I'm curious about is why I can't cut down in a very disciplined way, with a weekly programme, and then quit completely?
I'm a novice and haven't been able to find a full explanation of why I shouldn't do this.
I have a supportive doctor and I'm also planning to go see him on Monday, for some advice and help.
Kind regards
Thanks for your reply - you seem to be a really supportive person.
I know I won't just be able to cut down. I have to quit completely. What I'm curious about is why I can't cut down in a very disciplined way, with a weekly programme, and then quit completely?
I'm a novice and haven't been able to find a full explanation of why I shouldn't do this.
I have a supportive doctor and I'm also planning to go see him on Monday, for some advice and help.
Kind regards
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of France
Posts: 19
Thanks Ghostly.
I'm so glad I found this site, with so many good people on it. I know I'm going to need to talk to people who understand the problem. I'm used to doing things by myself, but this is one thing I can't lick on my own without a bit of support when things get tough.
So good to know I can come on here sometimes and speak to people who understand and care.
I'm so glad I found this site, with so many good people on it. I know I'm going to need to talk to people who understand the problem. I'm used to doing things by myself, but this is one thing I can't lick on my own without a bit of support when things get tough.
So good to know I can come on here sometimes and speak to people who understand and care.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,474
I think I have to echo both Dee and Ghostly... there is no way tapering or any form of controlled drinking worked for me, nor would it ever again I suspect(despite the occasional thought it may)....eventhough my booze brain tries to tell me otherwise.
Bonne chance Alcoabroad...J'aime beaucoup la France Sud....le pere de mon fils est Francais(mais c'est pas son faut!).
Excuse my French..has been a while LOL
Bonne chance Alcoabroad...J'aime beaucoup la France Sud....le pere de mon fils est Francais(mais c'est pas son faut!).
Excuse my French..has been a while LOL
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of France
Posts: 19
Hey Manz
Your French is excellent!
I want to be clear - I'm not saying for one moment that I think I can just reduce my intake. I have to quit permanently, I sense that. If I just cut down for a while it will creep up again and I'm back where I started.
I'm simply talking about a period of 2 weeks, planned out in detail (which I've done), and then quitting completely. Regardless of this I'm also going to see my doc on Monday for detox help.
Like I said above, this worked for me when I quit smoking.
So much advice seems to be that this won't work for alcoholism and I just don't know why.
Btw, I'm an alcoholic, and I've only been able to say this very recently.
I really appreciate all the encouragement and I'm taking note of everyone's advice. If I have to rethink my strategy based on wiser people's advice, then so be it.
Tres cordialement,
AlcoAbroad
Your French is excellent!
I want to be clear - I'm not saying for one moment that I think I can just reduce my intake. I have to quit permanently, I sense that. If I just cut down for a while it will creep up again and I'm back where I started.
I'm simply talking about a period of 2 weeks, planned out in detail (which I've done), and then quitting completely. Regardless of this I'm also going to see my doc on Monday for detox help.
Like I said above, this worked for me when I quit smoking.
So much advice seems to be that this won't work for alcoholism and I just don't know why.
Btw, I'm an alcoholic, and I've only been able to say this very recently.
I really appreciate all the encouragement and I'm taking note of everyone's advice. If I have to rethink my strategy based on wiser people's advice, then so be it.
Tres cordialement,
AlcoAbroad
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
My question is this, why not just quit today?
That was my question for myself. If I knew I had this problem, and I knew my life would be better without it, why bother with a drawn out goodbye. My hidden agenda for lingering was that i hoped that "we could work it out". I hoped that just one more encounter, just one more approach would prove that I COULD handle it, that there was a way for me to live with my using.
For me it was like a romanic relationship, if I may make that comparison. I really hoped that if I threatened to walk away, the other person might change, we might work things out, etc. Even though I knew the relationship was toxic, I hoped that there might be a way of changing that.
Just as in toxic personal relationships, walking away and having no further contact was the best route for me to go. The only way of ending, once and for all an obsessive, unhealthy relationship.
My dependency on my drug of choice was not physical, it was mental/emotional. If all I needed to do was to physically detox, perhaps weaning myself might have worked. But since I turned to using to fill empty spaces in my life, weaning was not an option. As soon as things felt scary, I'd pick up. The only way for me to quit, once and for all, was to be done with it, with no bittersweet goodbyes, with no me "getting the last word in"
That was my question for myself. If I knew I had this problem, and I knew my life would be better without it, why bother with a drawn out goodbye. My hidden agenda for lingering was that i hoped that "we could work it out". I hoped that just one more encounter, just one more approach would prove that I COULD handle it, that there was a way for me to live with my using.
For me it was like a romanic relationship, if I may make that comparison. I really hoped that if I threatened to walk away, the other person might change, we might work things out, etc. Even though I knew the relationship was toxic, I hoped that there might be a way of changing that.
Just as in toxic personal relationships, walking away and having no further contact was the best route for me to go. The only way of ending, once and for all an obsessive, unhealthy relationship.
My dependency on my drug of choice was not physical, it was mental/emotional. If all I needed to do was to physically detox, perhaps weaning myself might have worked. But since I turned to using to fill empty spaces in my life, weaning was not an option. As soon as things felt scary, I'd pick up. The only way for me to quit, once and for all, was to be done with it, with no bittersweet goodbyes, with no me "getting the last word in"
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: I'm exactly where I should be.
Posts: 1,889
Welcome Alco.
I agree with Threshold. All the time and energy you'll spend on thinking about 'tapering' you could have just quit for good. Alot less energy involved.
The reason for me that tapering didn't work is that because although I changed my drinking habits but cutting down, I didn't change my alcoholic mind that said 'you aren't feeding me enough'. The only thing I found useful about cutting down is that it made me realize exactly just how much I really was drinking. When I'd cut down, instead of stopping I'd drink more to make up for lost time.
I found that removing the alcohol from my life completely was the only way I'd be free of the torture that it endured my mind. It's easier not to start than to try moderation.
Wishing you peace and strength.
I agree with Threshold. All the time and energy you'll spend on thinking about 'tapering' you could have just quit for good. Alot less energy involved.
The reason for me that tapering didn't work is that because although I changed my drinking habits but cutting down, I didn't change my alcoholic mind that said 'you aren't feeding me enough'. The only thing I found useful about cutting down is that it made me realize exactly just how much I really was drinking. When I'd cut down, instead of stopping I'd drink more to make up for lost time.
I found that removing the alcohol from my life completely was the only way I'd be free of the torture that it endured my mind. It's easier not to start than to try moderation.
Wishing you peace and strength.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 140
Hi Alco-- We spoke in the chat room the other night, so glad to see you here on the boards and posting, getting feedback from everyone and benefitting from their experience.
SO glad you're here, and let us know how it goes.
SO glad you're here, and let us know how it goes.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 645
Tapering never worked for me either......like Dee said, as an alcoholic, I cant control my drinking - if I wasnt, I wouldnt need to try and control it (taper) in the first place.
I think smokings a little different - easier to stick to a detailed plan, unless you're drunk of course.
My attempts at tapering were that id promise myself to drink xxx amount of booze, then i'd be half-drunk and change the plan, decide to drink more and then attempt to taper off the next day/week or whatever.......went on for years
I think smokings a little different - easier to stick to a detailed plan, unless you're drunk of course.
My attempts at tapering were that id promise myself to drink xxx amount of booze, then i'd be half-drunk and change the plan, decide to drink more and then attempt to taper off the next day/week or whatever.......went on for years
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Great White North, eh? Beauty.
Posts: 159
I tried it, and it didn't work for me. I'd be going along OK for a few days, then BLAMMO - one night you decide that whatever you have isn't enough. It might have something to do with the fact that as you cut down, you start feeling better and you figure that maybe you can 'get away with it' just for one night. I don't know. You can try it, but if it's not working for you, maybe cold turkey is best. I got a 2 week supply of meds from my Dr. when I quit (for insomnia) and they were very helpful. He made it clear that he wasn't going to prescribe any more after 2 weeks, which was also very helpful.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I tried limiting myself..never worked..."there isn't enough wine in the world".
you won't know until you try...but why are you *waiting* to cut down??? why not start NOW???
you haven't said how much you drink every day....that could have a lot to do with it. you are still consuming your DOC...once i have it in my system, all plans go out the window.
you won't know until you try...but why are you *waiting* to cut down??? why not start NOW???
you haven't said how much you drink every day....that could have a lot to do with it. you are still consuming your DOC...once i have it in my system, all plans go out the window.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4
Alcoabroad,
I am relatively new to recovery/abstinence so maybe I should preface this by saying that I don't have any sage words of advice for you. I did however, manage to "successfully" taper off alcohol on a similar time line to the one your suggesting. I use quotations because while I did ultimately reduce my intake to zero, looking back on things (not too far back mind you) tapering was probably more pain/trouble than it was worth.
I think tapering, like moderation, is conceptually attractive for a number of reasons. For me, I thought that I could reduce or eliminate any withdrawal symptoms. I don't think anyone physically addicted to alcohol gets a free pass on that one though. The idea of quitting and dealing with the potentially awful consequences of withdrawal was scary for me. Tapering did sooth that fear a little bit. That being said, I suffered from pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms (insomnia, shaking, racing heart, sweating) through out the ENTIRE tapering period and THEN subjected myself to complete detox. It was brutal.
At the end of the day tapering and moderation in my mind are very similar processes with a different end goal. As someone that is not particularly good at moderating my alcohol intake over relatively short periods of time and completely incapable of doing so on a long term basis, I found tapering to be both physically and mentally painful.
I also think that if your ultimate goal is to quit completely, the process of tapering itself can create little mental gremlins down the line. In the weeks after I quit drinking completely I had a number of conversations between myself and myself regarding my ability/inability to drink again. The idea that because I had "successfully" tapered in a planned and controlled manner I could return to drinking moderately came up numerous times. Those conversations were pure alcoholic lunacy, but then again what can you expect from someone who is talking to themselves.
TLDNR Summary : can it be done? Maybe. For me tapering was like digging a ditch with a spoon in the sense that it was effective, but not very efficient. At the end of the day, I wouldn't do it again and hopefully I never have to. Good luck.
I am relatively new to recovery/abstinence so maybe I should preface this by saying that I don't have any sage words of advice for you. I did however, manage to "successfully" taper off alcohol on a similar time line to the one your suggesting. I use quotations because while I did ultimately reduce my intake to zero, looking back on things (not too far back mind you) tapering was probably more pain/trouble than it was worth.
I think tapering, like moderation, is conceptually attractive for a number of reasons. For me, I thought that I could reduce or eliminate any withdrawal symptoms. I don't think anyone physically addicted to alcohol gets a free pass on that one though. The idea of quitting and dealing with the potentially awful consequences of withdrawal was scary for me. Tapering did sooth that fear a little bit. That being said, I suffered from pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms (insomnia, shaking, racing heart, sweating) through out the ENTIRE tapering period and THEN subjected myself to complete detox. It was brutal.
At the end of the day tapering and moderation in my mind are very similar processes with a different end goal. As someone that is not particularly good at moderating my alcohol intake over relatively short periods of time and completely incapable of doing so on a long term basis, I found tapering to be both physically and mentally painful.
I also think that if your ultimate goal is to quit completely, the process of tapering itself can create little mental gremlins down the line. In the weeks after I quit drinking completely I had a number of conversations between myself and myself regarding my ability/inability to drink again. The idea that because I had "successfully" tapered in a planned and controlled manner I could return to drinking moderately came up numerous times. Those conversations were pure alcoholic lunacy, but then again what can you expect from someone who is talking to themselves.
TLDNR Summary : can it be done? Maybe. For me tapering was like digging a ditch with a spoon in the sense that it was effective, but not very efficient. At the end of the day, I wouldn't do it again and hopefully I never have to. Good luck.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of France
Posts: 19
Hi guys
I can't thank you enough for your insights. You've really made me think.
I suppose I'm trying to limit the dangers and the terror of the detox by cutting down in a very disciplined manner for a couple of weeks (with the help of my wonderful wife) but I'm going to reflect carefully on what you've all said.
I'm seeing the doc on Monday so maybe that will help reassure me. The docs in France are really excellent. This helps to answer the question "why not today?". The other reason is that I'm a firm believer in deciding something and setting a date, so that I'm good and ready. That's what I did when I quit smoking.
I'm never drunk, btw, I just drink all the time. You'll just have to trust me on this one. Even my wife would tell you she's never seen me drunk. I seem to have an amazing capacity to soak up the stuff without showing it.
However I know I'm wrecking my body with this poison and I also know I have to quit completely. I can't just drink a little, or I'll slowly go back up to the current level of consumption (a bottle of spirits per day).
I'm just a bit scared to death!
Thanks one and all for your advice and support so far.
Your alcoholic friend from the South of France
I can't thank you enough for your insights. You've really made me think.
I suppose I'm trying to limit the dangers and the terror of the detox by cutting down in a very disciplined manner for a couple of weeks (with the help of my wonderful wife) but I'm going to reflect carefully on what you've all said.
I'm seeing the doc on Monday so maybe that will help reassure me. The docs in France are really excellent. This helps to answer the question "why not today?". The other reason is that I'm a firm believer in deciding something and setting a date, so that I'm good and ready. That's what I did when I quit smoking.
I'm never drunk, btw, I just drink all the time. You'll just have to trust me on this one. Even my wife would tell you she's never seen me drunk. I seem to have an amazing capacity to soak up the stuff without showing it.
However I know I'm wrecking my body with this poison and I also know I have to quit completely. I can't just drink a little, or I'll slowly go back up to the current level of consumption (a bottle of spirits per day).
I'm just a bit scared to death!
Thanks one and all for your advice and support so far.
Your alcoholic friend from the South of France
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
what's "a bottle of spirits"? a bottle of wine? a bottle of hard liquor? a liter, a quart, a 1/5?...a gallon?
your tolerance may have to do with your bodyweight and if you consume on an empty stomach or with food.
I found a sure test to determine if booze is affecting me...have one or two drinks...try to ride a bicycle...you will find your reaction time and balance is indeed affected.
BTW, we have excellent doctors in the US too....and all of them would advise you to have a medically supervised de-tox if you are drinking that amount of *spirits* on a daily basis.
I'm sorry, but I think your plan of "getting ready to quit" is actually side-stepping. when was the last time you went without alcohol for more than 24 hours and how did you feel?
quitting is not a walk in the park, but no matter what path you take when you stop, you're going to feel some discomfort, tiredness and withdrawal. these are the consequences for being physically dependent on alcohol.
unless you are extremely strong-willed and impervious to side-effects, i think your plan is not workable....please keep us posted!
your tolerance may have to do with your bodyweight and if you consume on an empty stomach or with food.
I found a sure test to determine if booze is affecting me...have one or two drinks...try to ride a bicycle...you will find your reaction time and balance is indeed affected.
BTW, we have excellent doctors in the US too....and all of them would advise you to have a medically supervised de-tox if you are drinking that amount of *spirits* on a daily basis.
I'm sorry, but I think your plan of "getting ready to quit" is actually side-stepping. when was the last time you went without alcohol for more than 24 hours and how did you feel?
quitting is not a walk in the park, but no matter what path you take when you stop, you're going to feel some discomfort, tiredness and withdrawal. these are the consequences for being physically dependent on alcohol.
unless you are extremely strong-willed and impervious to side-effects, i think your plan is not workable....please keep us posted!
Editor
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 1,516
I'm never drunk, btw, I just drink all the time. You'll just have to trust me on this one. Even my wife would tell you she's never seen me drunk. I seem to have an amazing capacity to soak up the stuff without showing it.
I understand what you are saying. I drank mass quantities and held my composure for years and years. I was an epic drinker. Then about 5 years ago my composure started slipping. I started getting sloppy. If you are not sloppy yet....the time will come. As for Tapering......never worked for me. It was an excuse for me to keep dragging out my drinking. Hell my father is still tapering and he is 69. I think he said that he started when he got his CC scholarship to college. I am not saying that is wont work for you,BUT the odds are not in your favor. Just my 2 cents. I wish you the best.
Day by day
DAve
I understand what you are saying. I drank mass quantities and held my composure for years and years. I was an epic drinker. Then about 5 years ago my composure started slipping. I started getting sloppy. If you are not sloppy yet....the time will come. As for Tapering......never worked for me. It was an excuse for me to keep dragging out my drinking. Hell my father is still tapering and he is 69. I think he said that he started when he got his CC scholarship to college. I am not saying that is wont work for you,BUT the odds are not in your favor. Just my 2 cents. I wish you the best.
Day by day
DAve
instant
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,711
I gather you are drinking an amount that is a lot larger than years ago? if so you have a degree of "tolerance" (higher doses needed to get the same effect). The severity of the withdrawal will be proportional to the degree of "tolerance" which is just another way of saying physical dependance- your body 'needs' it to function normally etc. The mental challenge of stopping is daunting, difficult but not insurmountable- but it does help if there is light at the end of he tunnel. The is a sticky that contains a lot of withdrawal stories, it seems to go for about five days or so. The torment you may experience as you "taper" would be difficult to handle.
A while a go my brother had a planned detox at home with medical / nursing supervision. Alcohol was stopped and replaced with 'diazepam" which was then tapered. No driving allowed when doing this. I am quite sure he would have been a DT risk, and was refusing inpatient detox. It worked for him.
A while a go my brother had a planned detox at home with medical / nursing supervision. Alcohol was stopped and replaced with 'diazepam" which was then tapered. No driving allowed when doing this. I am quite sure he would have been a DT risk, and was refusing inpatient detox. It worked for him.
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