nodl5

I do know that I have made a decision to become sober and to live without alcohol. It is easy for me to recognize that it made my life hard to manage, such as in relationships, money, avoiding incarceration, bad judgements (can't say that one enough), acting like a fool, being a dependable friend and being able to be a good father.

But deep down what is the root cause? I say that, because I've heard that successful sobriety depends on the selfish desire to quite drinking only for one's self. I have heard, "don't quit for your daughter, not for your family or even a DWI, quit for yourself only."

Well, I have to pause, do I desire sobriety for just me? If I am sober, God willing, do I not become a better father, a better driver, better at financial matters, and my favorite, make better judgements. I suppose all the fore mentioned items come down to making better judgements.

I might have answered my own question. If I am sober than there is a much better possibility that I might make better judgements. These in turn help me to be a better person. But I must say, I did quit for my daughter, my fear of incarceration, my finances and for success, spiritual and otherwise. These are the things, as a whole that make me, well... me!

It is not my intention to split hairs, but I was pondering, how I deal with the real drive behind my decision to quit drinking, to build a healthy foundation on which my sobriety is built.

God, thank you for allowing me to wake up sober and for the people that have decided to be sober. And bless the suffering alcoholic, may that person find you now.

--
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Jabbadabutt

I am in a similiar boat as you. I knew I was ready to quit and I knew I had to quit if I wanted to keep all that I had good in my life. So in a way it is very selfish......it is making a better life for yourself...and for the people you love.

SwanSong

Well, I wouldn't get to caught up on semantics, however it is a good question.

Here's what I've learned, when people say you've got to want this sobriety for yourself is that we really need to admit to ourselves in our heart of hearts that we are absolutely alcoholic. So I'll use me for an example. My bottom this time around was a 2nd offense DUI (prior back in 04, said it would never happen again). I was 12th stepped by a lady with nearly 30 years in AA so she helped me see that my disease had permeated way more of my life than just the surface issues. However, had she not have, I may have initially stopped drinking simply because I was in enough trouble and didn't want to endure anymore. Ergo one could say that I quit drinking because of the criminal matter at hand. As time goes on, and here is where this example ties into quitting for your daughter or for money, is that if I stay sober long enough (3-5 years) I will have gone through court, did my time, got off probation, and have my license back and my prior will have dropped off so I would be back to a 1 DUI record. Now if that was the 'sole' reason I quit drinking, even if I made it that far, why would I not return to drinking? See the correlation between my example and quitting in order to get a daughter or wife back or make them happy with you? What do you do once you have this thing resolved or this person back or those finances secured?

In large part, in my opinion, when we say we have to quit for ourselves and nobody or nothing else it doesn't mean you ignore your life's experiences and go on a deep introspective journey. Rather you take the totality of circumstances and you ask yourself do I want to continue living in this warped world where my life is dominated by a substance or would I rather set myself free? Lastly one thing I did not read in your post (and I'm still on my first few sips of coffee so I may have missed it) was how do you feel when you're alcoholism is active? Myself, it was lots of external factors along the lines of what you listed (not living to up to my full potential at work, wanting to finish my degree, having a 2nd DUI, being a better son and brother, etc. etc. etc.) but all of those reasons really side step how I felt when I drank, before I drank and after I drank. It would emotionally and spiritually bankrupt me (perhaps with the exception of while I was imbibing but even then it wasn't for the entire time, only segments).

I hope that helps answer your question. If you're just getting sober I do believe it's important to admit to our inner most selves we are alcoholic and to do this for us and nobody or nothing else - but that will come in time if it's not clear yet and I as I said above I think it has a lot to do with staying sober vs. just getting sober (i.e. I can 'get' sober long enough to see x go away or her come back to me, or those finances get flushed again but do I want to 'stay' sober once any or all of these things have occurred?). And do I want to finally be set free once and for all?

Edit: Also, when we first quit drinking, I don't think there can be any 'wrong' reason. As with everything in life, it is likely to change/evolve some over time.

ajangel

Exactly. I was thinking this exact same thing.

erikm02

Sometimes you have to help yourself to help others around you. I wouldn't necessarilly call that selfish. Good luck

rich74

i really enjoyed this post and found it very helpful because i am trying to quit for me but also for the people around me

DayTrader

I too hear that comment in meetings....it's not "from" AA, although you hear it IN AA. The only place I've seen it in print is in the yellow Akron step pamphlets that so many of the meetings here in Michigan use. Frankly, there's nothing selfish about wanting a better life than that of an alcoholic.....even that of a "high bottom" alkie. Don't get too carried away with what is and what isn't selfish. I like to eat......is that selfish? I'd like sex, is that selfish? I needed to change my life, is that selfish? ......yanno?


Successful sobriety (for the alkie in AA) depends upon working the steps, not upon a "selfish desire".......and more importantly........upon developing and improving a relationship with some power greater than you (which could, for many, just be the AA program itself) to do for you what you can't do on your own - ie stay sober and happy. As a matter of fact, I know plenty of ppl who HAVE an honest, sincere DESIRE to get sober......but they're not willing to put in the work. All that desire is, for them, is food for depression.... it's not nearly enough to GET or KEEP them sober.


(one of) THE purposes of the program of AA is "to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and to others." -- NO selfishness in there....as a matter of fact, we go to great lengths to keep selfishness and self centeredness at bay. The book is pretty explicit about ANY selfishness being VERY dangerous to the alcoholic.

.......all that said, you do have to actually DO the work...and for many of us, the idea of doing something we don't "want" to do is just out of the question - especially early in sobriety. I guess that's where the "you have to want it" line comes from. Over time, many of us do get some willingness to do plenty that we don't feel like or want to do.....we grow up and mature a bit, yanno?

I did "kinda" want to get sober.......but I wanted to drink more. Actually, I wanted to drink but not have the problems that came with drinking. I did, however, have some willingness to give the program a sincere try....even though I wasn't convinced it would work for me, that I'd like sobriety, or that it would stick......and honestly......I wasn't really sincere in even wanting it to work. I wasn't willing to consider that I'd NEVER drink again. In the end, it IS the consequences of our drinking that cause us to be willing to look at alternatives........DUI's are a good motivator, as is divorce, kids ignoring, job loss, etc etc etc..... I mean, if there were no consequences for my drinking I'd still be doing it today.

That was 4 yrs ago....no booze since for me...not because I WANTED IT but mostly because I did what the program and my sponsor told me to do. AA can be like taking antibiotics.....you don't have to have a desire for them to work, you don't have to want them to work, you don't have to even believe they WILL work.......you just have to TAKE them. In other words, the actions are more important than the thoughts behind them.

Jabbadabutt

Hmmmmm......agreed. But something tells me it would still somehow end up bad fo me.

Eddiebuckle

In my experience, what this means is that trying to quit to appease someone else will probably not succeed in the long run. Quitting to make your daughter happy is entirely different from quitting so you can maintain a relationship with your daughter.

yeahgr8

Some of us will realise, at some point in our lives, that every single decision we make is based on how we benefit from that decision...think about if you do something for someone else and say "i did it because it was the right thing to do", well how did that make you feel? At some level there is some satisfaction to the act or you wouldn't have done it ...regardless it doesn't really matter what the initial motivation is anyway, my sponsor got into sobriety 25 years ago to save his marriage, the marriage failed and he stayed for him...

It is important for us when we get into recovery is to establish some responsibility and accountability for the process...if we get into recovery for someone or something else our usual pattern will be to use that as an excuse to drink again when things don't go our way, e.g. bereavement, end of relationship, end of job, ill health etc...that is the main concern of anyone with long term sobriety advising that we get into recovery for ourselves...

nodl5

@SwanSong - I really liked what you said in that comment. The short of it is that after 33 years of drinking and being only 9 days sober, I want to quit to quit. I am frightened that after this 5th DWI, a .07 (under the standard legal limit, but it happened on a provisional license which has a good chance of being not guilty) that I will lose sight of the strong desire to be sober since it is an event. But I believe I desire to be sober forever!

My story is long, it is full of despair (no pity party, right?) and I have pondered and even tried to quit, through detox and AA before all this.

But I am wrestling with the idea, "am I lying to myself, AGAIN!" So, with that in mind, sobriety is my main purpose. I am desperately trying to find that true heading with great determination. This is why I posted the thread. I want sobriety, I want it to last and I believe that it will set me free of many things that have prevented me from reaching me potential of a fulfilling life.

Over the last year I have completed a community college degree, am looking at getting a 4 year degree. I gained custody of my daughter and I am growing as a person, sort of... But, I was drinking and it no longer fulfilled me. I drank to become basically a non-person. All things around me faded and my love of life had all but disappeared even with these positive events in my life. I had hit a road block and was unable to feel like any of these events where a reason to feel happy or successful.

I want to build this thing from the ground up!

nodl5

thanks eddiebuckle - it is to have a relationship with my daughter of whom i have custody and be there in the best capacity. she is only 24 months old, so it's not like she said, dad, "mom is gone and you need to go to AA, so you won't go away too."

Lionne

Becomig sober for yourself is also about what person you want to be.
Being a good father, making better decisions, not being a drunk driver, all this can be part of your self-image and identity. Who you are. So in my opinion, becoming sober for those reasons is also becoming sober for yourself. You are not lying to yourself, and it isnot selfish.

farmer

I don't think it's selfish at all to want to be sober. I just think it's right, at least for me. If the work requires me to focus on me more then I should have done it a long time ago but I wasn't ready to do what was right for me, I was in this addictive mindset to feed my disease. Now that was wrong for me. Not sure if this help and maybe I am rambling but I don't think it's selfish to quit using, for me it was selfish to drink and take away from everything I enjoyed without it. And IT wasn't that grand, it tried to kill me and could have killed others.

Dee74

I struggled with this for a long time nodl - when I got sober I thought so little of myself that I wasn't sure I was a good enough reason to quit.

But I knew I didn't want to die and I'd been drinking long and hard enough to make that a distinct possibility.

so I stuck with it and stayed sober...and gradually my perception cleared..I never really realised how much alcohol had changed me or the way I saw myself and the world...but the 'booze clouds' parted and I saw myself as a person of value again, as we all are.

It's not selfish to put ourselves first in situations like these - it's life affirming - and by doing so it enables us to be the best friends/parents/spouses/neighbours/community members etc we can be

D

dfw

Everything you mentioned, material or relationship-wise is in fact a reflection of yourself. Let me get philosophical for a second, you perceive the world through your own consciousness, which is inherently the basis of your projected self. You build these financial assets and these relationships with people, if you don't change for yourself, you can't perceivably affect anything else.

When you want to cut down a tree, do you hack off the branches and then expect it to not grow? No, you rip the roots out of the ground so it can't sustain itself.

Stopping drinking for yourself isn't selfish at all, it's the catalyst that let's everything else in your life fall into place in due time.

michelle01

I found it pretty difficult to want to quit for myself too, I had a pattern of self sabotaging, self destructive behavior even before alcoholism. But yes I did know that I didn't want to die in that state, call it survival instinct or whatever.

Several times I tried treatment not because my heart was in it, but because I'd been 'caught' and felt pressured into going to keep everyone else happy and stop them complaining. I was still in that fog.

Still though you hear stories about people who have been ordered into AA or their families have done interventions on them, and it's given them an awareness and got them on the right track.

Somebody I know once said that while yes we are supposed to want to quit for ourselves, we still like to think that those around us will come on board with us about it, that it's going to help our relationships. Sometimes it doesn't go as smoothly as that. Some relationships may be mended, some may take time, some may remain difficult.

Overall I was aware that in the long term, my getting sober would ultimately work out in the best interests of everyone involved. That's what has happened, though I can't say it was my primary goal.

My family did help and support me in my recovery, my main reliance however was the program I was working. If we feel that someone we have invested our recovery in has somehow let us down, or is being unfair... that to me was when it became important that I was doing this for myself or I may have caved.

Boleo

"Sought after virtue is not true virtue"
- Lao Tzu

Don't worry about it. Even if you start out with selfish motives, the recovery process is the cure for selfishness. If everybody benefits, it is no longer selfish.