New Sponsor
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San francisco,ca
Posts: 112
New Sponsor
Yes, 2 post in one day. I need lots of help from you guys. I just met up with my new sponsor. I don’t know him at all, but he was suggested to me from someone else who has been in aa for quite a while. He wants to start at step one with me. I wasn’t really happy with that, but I decided to just go along with what he says and not put up a fight. But then he says that I have to write everything down in pen, not pencil, and that everything has to be capitalized. He did not seem to be flexible at all on this.
Starting on step one is something I can understand a sponsor being set on. But this thing about writing only in pen, and capitalizing everything seems more like a red flag. I know this seems small and trivial, but these small red flags usually lead to bigger issues. Or am I just paranoid? I'm not trying to find a sponsor that will work the program the way I want, but capitalizing in pen, really? What do you guys think?
Starting on step one is something I can understand a sponsor being set on. But this thing about writing only in pen, and capitalizing everything seems more like a red flag. I know this seems small and trivial, but these small red flags usually lead to bigger issues. Or am I just paranoid? I'm not trying to find a sponsor that will work the program the way I want, but capitalizing in pen, really? What do you guys think?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
A good sponsor can still have their own quirks, as long as he is doing it the Big Book way and not treatment centre style you will be fine...there is a 12 step section if you want to ask about any of the step work on SR...all you want from a sponsor is to work the steps as quickly as possible to the best of your ability and to get your spiritual awakening asap like they did...this will solve the "problem" you highlighted in your other thread:-)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by DUNE 
I'm not trying to find a sponsor that will work the program the way I want, but capitalizing in pen, really? What do you guys think?
My first sponsor had me underlining with a red pen and a straight-edge. I mean, the pen I could understand, but a straight-edge? Come on, did it really matter if my lines were straight?
Turns out, no. Straight lines don't make me any more sober than crooked lines. But surrender, willingness, and giving up my notions of how things should be done were essential.
When I became willing to do the things that I didn't believe would work, or that I thought were stupid, I began to get results.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Dune,
Some sponsors are great. Some aren't worth a crap. Perhaps consider this:
Am I so resistant and defiant, that rather than grabbing a pen and capitalizing like has been suggested to me, I'd rather get on the internet and seek support for the use of pencils and small letters?
And then ask yourself, who is the real control freak here?
Some sponsors are great. Some aren't worth a crap. Perhaps consider this:
Am I so resistant and defiant, that rather than grabbing a pen and capitalizing like has been suggested to me, I'd rather get on the internet and seek support for the use of pencils and small letters?
And then ask yourself, who is the real control freak here?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: richmond,VA
Posts: 189
Originally Posted by keithj
Dune,
Some sponsors are great. Some aren't worth a crap. Perhaps consider this:
Am I so resistant and defiant, that rather than grabbing a pen and capitalizing like has been suggested to me, I'd rather get on the internet and seek support for the use of pencils and small letters?
And then ask yourself, who is the real control freak here?
Some sponsors are great. Some aren't worth a crap. Perhaps consider this:
Am I so resistant and defiant, that rather than grabbing a pen and capitalizing like has been suggested to me, I'd rather get on the internet and seek support for the use of pencils and small letters?
And then ask yourself, who is the real control freak here?
what I ask myself is why some sponsors come up with stuff that has nothing to do with sobiety or recovery at all. I mean really what difference does it make if something is in ink or pencil or is capitalized or not. I finished high school many years ago,so if some overbearing sponsor were to come at me like a damn English teacher wannabe,they would be exiting the conversation with hurt feelings and a bruised ego.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Dune....it seems odd to me too.....but then again, I've heard of and DONE a lot of odd things in AA - and a lot of them had very important rationale behind them but I just couldn't see it / understand it at the time.
I especially liked Keith's comment about defiance. For me, personally.........defiance runs rampant through my life......and it's caused me a phenomenal amount of pain - pain that was about to stop or go away but no.....nope.....I just haaaaad to mess with someone or something just to prove how much in control I AM...... Ya see, I don't LIKE control - unless it's me doing the controlling and everyone's listening to my directions. lololol
Sometimes sponsors ask us to do "silly" things just to see if we're really willing to take direction - to see if we're even open to being teachable. I assume the writing he's talking about will be your 4th step.....and since you're nowhere near that one yet, it's not something to worry about. He might just be testing you, yanno - are you open, willing, teachable, honest enough to talk about it, going to run away from him, are you looking for an "out," are you still convinced that "your thinking" works, etc etc etc.
I've been "gagged" at meetings for two months now (honestly, I've talked at a few.....but only a few) by my sponsor. At first it pissed me off.......then I settled in and it was no biggie - "Name, last drink date, here to listen and learn, pass." In the past week or so though.....it's starting to bug me again. bla bla bla......the problem IS WITHIN ME - IT'S NOT MY SPONSOR'S PROBLEM, IT'S MY PROBLEM. That's how resentments roll. We like to think it's the other person's "fault" but really, the problem is ours.
I believe that part in the AA Book that reads, "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn’t think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us!" I'd suggest you look at where running your life as you deemed appropriate took you.....and what it had you doing/rationalizing. Following direction is difficult for EVERY alcoholic. We just don't like rules.....unless, of course, they're our own rules (and oddly enough, I seem to even like to break my OWN rules once and a while.....lol). One thing I know though, if you're having a problem with something, the question to ask is what is it about YOU that's causing this to bother you.
Yanno.....what if this guy was God's gift to sponsorship.....and he just has this quirk about writing in capital letters......and if you just get past that one resentment (and you're going to have to learn to get past resentments anyway.....unless you want to get drunk again) and you'll have the happiest most fulfilling life in sobriety ever?
Anyway, my $5 says the guy's just testing how "open and willing" you are to try new things (most alkies are pretty opinionated and closed minded). If not, I'll also bet he's got a reason for what he's asking but now may not be the time for you to know what that reason is.
I especially liked Keith's comment about defiance. For me, personally.........defiance runs rampant through my life......and it's caused me a phenomenal amount of pain - pain that was about to stop or go away but no.....nope.....I just haaaaad to mess with someone or something just to prove how much in control I AM...... Ya see, I don't LIKE control - unless it's me doing the controlling and everyone's listening to my directions. lololol
Sometimes sponsors ask us to do "silly" things just to see if we're really willing to take direction - to see if we're even open to being teachable. I assume the writing he's talking about will be your 4th step.....and since you're nowhere near that one yet, it's not something to worry about. He might just be testing you, yanno - are you open, willing, teachable, honest enough to talk about it, going to run away from him, are you looking for an "out," are you still convinced that "your thinking" works, etc etc etc.
I've been "gagged" at meetings for two months now (honestly, I've talked at a few.....but only a few) by my sponsor. At first it pissed me off.......then I settled in and it was no biggie - "Name, last drink date, here to listen and learn, pass." In the past week or so though.....it's starting to bug me again. bla bla bla......the problem IS WITHIN ME - IT'S NOT MY SPONSOR'S PROBLEM, IT'S MY PROBLEM. That's how resentments roll. We like to think it's the other person's "fault" but really, the problem is ours.
I believe that part in the AA Book that reads, "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn’t think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us!" I'd suggest you look at where running your life as you deemed appropriate took you.....and what it had you doing/rationalizing. Following direction is difficult for EVERY alcoholic. We just don't like rules.....unless, of course, they're our own rules (and oddly enough, I seem to even like to break my OWN rules once and a while.....lol). One thing I know though, if you're having a problem with something, the question to ask is what is it about YOU that's causing this to bother you.
Yanno.....what if this guy was God's gift to sponsorship.....and he just has this quirk about writing in capital letters......and if you just get past that one resentment (and you're going to have to learn to get past resentments anyway.....unless you want to get drunk again) and you'll have the happiest most fulfilling life in sobriety ever?
Anyway, my $5 says the guy's just testing how "open and willing" you are to try new things (most alkies are pretty opinionated and closed minded). If not, I'll also bet he's got a reason for what he's asking but now may not be the time for you to know what that reason is.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Some sponsors do have 'quirks.' Now whether those quirks are just their way of seeing how willing the sponsee is to follow directions, I don't know.
I do know that Clancy I did and still does require his new sponsees to show up at his house on saturday mornings to clean the dog doo doo out of his yard, and no he does not pay them to do it. I never could figure that one out. To me he was getting 'free' labor, but that is his thing.
Now, I have, when working with a new sponsee, and knowing they may be very 'short' on finances, have asked them if they would like to help me clean my house, and they do get paid a very 'fair wage.' However, to me that had absolutely nothing to do with the steps, although we did talk program while we worked, that was helping someone in need, with a little 'self esteem' to show them that they could earn money and were capable of earning money to survive on.
I don't have an answer for you Dune, but it does sound a bit 'quirky' to me, lol
Love and hugs,
I do know that Clancy I did and still does require his new sponsees to show up at his house on saturday mornings to clean the dog doo doo out of his yard, and no he does not pay them to do it. I never could figure that one out. To me he was getting 'free' labor, but that is his thing.
Now, I have, when working with a new sponsee, and knowing they may be very 'short' on finances, have asked them if they would like to help me clean my house, and they do get paid a very 'fair wage.' However, to me that had absolutely nothing to do with the steps, although we did talk program while we worked, that was helping someone in need, with a little 'self esteem' to show them that they could earn money and were capable of earning money to survive on.
I don't have an answer for you Dune, but it does sound a bit 'quirky' to me, lol
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 645
Dune,
Does your new sponsor have difficulty reading handwritten material, you know cursive writing? Some people's handwriting is like chicken scratching, and it probably is easier to read capitalized or printed writing. If he is going to help you on your 4th step inventory, he is going to need to be able to read whatever your wrote down. Did you ask him why he wanted you to do it this way?
It does sound "quirky" to me, but there may be a perfectly legitimate reason that he is asking you to do this. Here we are making up all sorts of explanations and reasons why the request and it may be as simple as he wants to be able to read what you have written. You will never know unless you ask him.
He may be a great sponsor with a bit of a quirk. He may be an ego-driven SOB with nothing that you want. He may be testing you to determine your level of openness and willingness (as compared to your level of resistance and defiance). He may be seeing if you are able to follow directions. He may want to make sure that your writing is legible so that he can read what you have written. He may not think to tell you to type things out.
I don't know, and none of us (including yourself) here know either. So ask him.
Susan
Does your new sponsor have difficulty reading handwritten material, you know cursive writing? Some people's handwriting is like chicken scratching, and it probably is easier to read capitalized or printed writing. If he is going to help you on your 4th step inventory, he is going to need to be able to read whatever your wrote down. Did you ask him why he wanted you to do it this way?
It does sound "quirky" to me, but there may be a perfectly legitimate reason that he is asking you to do this. Here we are making up all sorts of explanations and reasons why the request and it may be as simple as he wants to be able to read what you have written. You will never know unless you ask him.
He may be a great sponsor with a bit of a quirk. He may be an ego-driven SOB with nothing that you want. He may be testing you to determine your level of openness and willingness (as compared to your level of resistance and defiance). He may be seeing if you are able to follow directions. He may want to make sure that your writing is legible so that he can read what you have written. He may not think to tell you to type things out.
I don't know, and none of us (including yourself) here know either. So ask him.
Susan
Practice Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KC missouri
Posts: 885
I would go with it just because ....damn are you that serious that you can't do something as silly as write in caps? I try not to get caught up in day to day stuff that sounds silly or I would end up flipping out every time I tried to send mail or do taxes etc.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San francisco,ca
Posts: 112
Thanks again everyone for your replies. Like I said before, writing in pen and capitalizing everything is not hard to do, and this is not about willingness. It’s more about this being a red flag. Even though he seems like he’s got a good game plan for the 12 steps, the more I think about this and your responses, the more I tend to think that he is teaching me the way he was taught. Is it going to be the way the 12 steps should be taught from the BB? Or is it going to be an opinionated interpretation of what’s there?
There are a lot of things in the BB that can be twisted, taken out of context, or manipulated in some way. And as a sponsee, it is almost impossible to immidiately recognize that your sponsor might be misguiding you.
I shared this issue at a meeting last night, with about 40 people present. As soon as I got into the details there was a roar of laughter and WTF’s. I decided that I need to find someone else that has enough flexibility to let me do things my way, even if it is a mistake that I need to learn from. I think I have enough common sense to realize when I have to admit that there is something that I need to do weather I like it or not, something that is vital to my recovery. Like praying for people whom I have strong resentments against. That was not something I wanted to do, at all! But I did, and continue to do everyday. My common sense tells me that capitalization is not important to my recovery, and that there are a lot of other sponsors out there for me, and a lot of sponcees out there for him.
Once again, thanks for your help on this.
There are a lot of things in the BB that can be twisted, taken out of context, or manipulated in some way. And as a sponsee, it is almost impossible to immidiately recognize that your sponsor might be misguiding you.
I shared this issue at a meeting last night, with about 40 people present. As soon as I got into the details there was a roar of laughter and WTF’s. I decided that I need to find someone else that has enough flexibility to let me do things my way, even if it is a mistake that I need to learn from. I think I have enough common sense to realize when I have to admit that there is something that I need to do weather I like it or not, something that is vital to my recovery. Like praying for people whom I have strong resentments against. That was not something I wanted to do, at all! But I did, and continue to do everyday. My common sense tells me that capitalization is not important to my recovery, and that there are a lot of other sponsors out there for me, and a lot of sponcees out there for him.
Once again, thanks for your help on this.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by DUNE
Is it going to be the way the 12 steps should be taught from the BB? Or is it going to be an opinionated interpretation of what’s there?
I decided that I need to find someone else that has enough flexibility to let me do things my way, even if it is a mistake that I need to learn from.
I feel you need to have a talk with any sponsor you have now or in the future to set clear what your expectations are of them and what the sponsor expects of you BEFORE you begin to set pen to paper. There's nothing wrong with that. Just be honest with yourself and the potential sponsor.
Working and living the 12 steps - to me - was and is an excersize in how to do things I didn't and don't want to do. I was told if I did, there would be a big payoff!! It's true.
Best of luck.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by DayTrader
One thing I know though, if you're having a problem with something, the question to ask is what is it about YOU that's causing this to bother you.
"And acceptance is the answer to *all* my problems. today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation---some fact of my life---unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."
Through my program of recovery and the 12 Steps I have been able to change my life. At 356 days in recovery, living life in harmony with my head is SO much easier now.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 645
Dune,
Did you ever ask him why he wants you to write in pen and capitalize? Or are you just making assumptions that he is doing things the way his sponsor taught him?
The directions in the Big Book are actually clear-cut, concise, specific, detailed, precise, etc. A good sponsor would tell you that if he says something that can't be reconciled with what you read in the Big Book, then you should view that as his opinion.
I am not saying that writing in pen and capitalizing is the "hill to die on" so to speak. And I am not saying that you are right or wrong in your decision to find a new sponsor.
What worries me is: "I decided that I need to find someone else that has enough flexibility to let me do things my way, even if it is a mistake that I need to learn from." Where does that begin and end, and how well did it work for you in the past?
How do you know what is vital to your recovery or not? How do you know what is important to your recovery or not? On what criteria are you going to base your decision as to what is vital and important, as to what you will do or will not do?
My common sense told me that it made perfect sense for me to pick up that next drink because "This time it would be different." My common sense told me if I didn't seem to be intoxicated, then I wasn't, and it was perfectly safe for me to drive myself home.
So much for common sense.
Unless you plan to sponsor yourself, you are going to have to trust someone. A good sponsor will not ask you to do something he himself has not done or would be willing to do. A good sponsor is willing to answer questions and provide clear explanations.
I found that something shifted inside of me when I made the decision that I would follow the directions I was being given on how to work the steps. I decided I would not "direct my own recovery" but instead trust and allow someone else to take that role.
That willingness to accept direction was critical. It was about deflation of ego, it was about reduction of self, it was about surrender to the process. It was about giving up my resistance and defiance. Somehow I was changed (for the better) in that process.
Look, I'm not talking about a sponsor telling a sponsee that he or she should clean their house or loan money or pick up their dry cleaning under the guise of following directions and working the steps. Those sorts of things are absolutely not appropriate.
You are going to do whatever you want to do. I would caution you to think carefully about whether doing things your way, directing your own recovery and sponsoring yourself (despite having a sponsor) is such a great idea in light of your past experience.
Susan
Did you ever ask him why he wants you to write in pen and capitalize? Or are you just making assumptions that he is doing things the way his sponsor taught him?
The directions in the Big Book are actually clear-cut, concise, specific, detailed, precise, etc. A good sponsor would tell you that if he says something that can't be reconciled with what you read in the Big Book, then you should view that as his opinion.
I am not saying that writing in pen and capitalizing is the "hill to die on" so to speak. And I am not saying that you are right or wrong in your decision to find a new sponsor.
What worries me is: "I decided that I need to find someone else that has enough flexibility to let me do things my way, even if it is a mistake that I need to learn from." Where does that begin and end, and how well did it work for you in the past?
How do you know what is vital to your recovery or not? How do you know what is important to your recovery or not? On what criteria are you going to base your decision as to what is vital and important, as to what you will do or will not do?
My common sense told me that it made perfect sense for me to pick up that next drink because "This time it would be different." My common sense told me if I didn't seem to be intoxicated, then I wasn't, and it was perfectly safe for me to drive myself home.
So much for common sense.
Unless you plan to sponsor yourself, you are going to have to trust someone. A good sponsor will not ask you to do something he himself has not done or would be willing to do. A good sponsor is willing to answer questions and provide clear explanations.
I found that something shifted inside of me when I made the decision that I would follow the directions I was being given on how to work the steps. I decided I would not "direct my own recovery" but instead trust and allow someone else to take that role.
That willingness to accept direction was critical. It was about deflation of ego, it was about reduction of self, it was about surrender to the process. It was about giving up my resistance and defiance. Somehow I was changed (for the better) in that process.
Look, I'm not talking about a sponsor telling a sponsee that he or she should clean their house or loan money or pick up their dry cleaning under the guise of following directions and working the steps. Those sorts of things are absolutely not appropriate.
You are going to do whatever you want to do. I would caution you to think carefully about whether doing things your way, directing your own recovery and sponsoring yourself (despite having a sponsor) is such a great idea in light of your past experience.
Susan
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