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thinks he's an alchoholic

Old 06-06-2011, 01:26 PM
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thinks he's an alchoholic

I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. My husband decided 2 years ago that he was an alchoholic. He has been attending AA meetings regularly. He goes at least 3 times a week and somtimes everyday. The problem is that I don't believe he is an alchoholic. I do not drink and never have so during the 28 years we were married I monitored his drinking. Yes there were times I would say "you don't need that 3rd glass of wine", but I didn't see a problem. Our grown children don't believe he is an alchoholic. No one he is close to believes he's an alchoholic. He hasn't had a drink in two years. He did not go through withdrawal and has not had a drink. He did not abuse me. he did not cheat or hurt me in any way. Since he has been going to AA our marriage has fallen apart. I do not believe in the teachings of AA. I believe he stopped drinking because he wanted to, not because god made it happen. I especially oppose the idea that you have to admit that you have no control over alchohol. The idea that a self help group teachers the idea of powerlesness rather than empowerment upsets me. I have told him how I feel about AA but his going is up to him. I suggested that he see a counselor as well which he isdoing. After about 6 months of AA he came to me to make ammends for the things he has done to me. He was upset with me because I said he didn't need to apologize because he hadn't hurt me. He couldn't tell me anything specific about what he had done. I only asked 3 questions. Did you Cheat on me? Did you drive drunk? Did you drink at work? He told me no to all questions. He has completely turned away from me and tells me I'mnot supportive. I think my husband was the strongest man the I know and was kind and loving. Now he is distant and tells me he doesn't like talking to me anymore because all I do is lecture him (not talking about AA, because we don't talk about it unless we are with the counselor). If I disagree with him at all about any topic, he shuts me out. He says I don't understand him and that I'm too angry. I've told him that being upset is not the same as angry. I don't yell or call names. fighting is something that we never did. Our children say they have never heard us even argue. He says he would rather spend time with his AA"buddies" and calls them his brothers. I discovered recently from his brother that his father was a very abusive man. He died before I met my husband and he has never talked about him. When I told my husband about the conversation he just said he doesn't remember it that way. I think my husband is now having problems because of the abuse and is hiding in AA. He doesn't talk about why he was drinking. He does acknowedge that his drinking did not cause his problems, but that his problems caused his drinking. However he does not want to talk about what the problems are. We are at a point where we are thinking about separating after 30 years of marriage. I know this is a long post but is there anyone out there with asimilar problem?
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:21 PM
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Dina,
I don't know if your husband is alcoholic or not. You don't know if your husband is alcoholic or not either. Frankly, it doesn't matter whether you believe your husband is alcoholic or not. What matters is that he believes he is alcoholic.

If you were to ask my family, friends, neighbors and colleagues if they believed I am an alcoholic, I would bet you $100 that you would get "resounding no's" as answers. [No, I am not in denial about it. Folks truly did not/do not know that I am an alcoholic.]

No one saw me drunk. No one saw me have more than two drinks at any event, party, gathering. No one saw how much I drank home, alone, hidden from the world. I was a closet drinker. I hid my drinking well. I functioned at work, home, church, community.

On the continuum of alcoholism, I am half-way through the middle stage of alcoholism. Yes, I've had an assessment done by a qualified professional. Had I continued to drink, I am sure I would continue to the end stage of alcoholism. It is a progressive illness.

The problem is by the time the people in my world would have recognized my alcoholism, I would have been in very serious trouble. What a perfect excuse for an alcoholic: no one close to me thinks I'm an alcoholic, so what the hell, I'm going to keep on drinking.

Do you really want to find out to your satisfaction if your husband is alcoholic or not? If your husband is in the middle stage of alcoholism: do you really want him to drink into the end stage of alcoholism before he recognizes a problem and seeks help?

I read in your post: "If my husband would stop thinking himself an alcoholic and if my husband would stop going to AA, then we wouldn't be having all these problems and all these difficulties in our marriage and in our relationship." Really? Are you serious?

My guess is that you have had issues in your marriage and in your relationship long before your husband started going to AA. My suggestion to you is that you focus on you (your health and your well-being) and allow your husband to focus on himself.
Susan
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:37 PM
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Dina,
I agree with Susan that if your husband believes he is an alcoholic, that is all that matters and you should do what you can to support him. I think it's strange that he tells you he has other problems besides alcohol that he can't talk to you about. I would encourage you to tell him it needs to come out- in counseling or wherever. It could be that he is so focused on dealing with his alcohol issue (which is a good thing) that he is avoiding other issues that affect the relationship. He needs to focus on both (and so do you).

I haven't attended AA but I've heard that they encourage making amends to those who you have hurt but not telling about affairs because the theory is that this would cause more hurt to the other person. I don't agree with this at all (if I understand it correctly... maybe others can tell me if I'm misinterpreting it or misquoting it), I'm of the belief that an affair is hurtful even if the other spouse doesn't know about it and hangs over the marriage and that it needs to be addressed for the person to recover and the marriage to recover. (Granted I'm not married, just going on my own personal opinion of marriage/relationships and experience with my parents' marriage etc. It is just my belief. I would want to know and also believe the truth has a way of coming out and I would be hurt more by not knowing and God forbid finding out some other way than by my spouse confessing to me and asking for forgiveness). I'm not saying your husband had an affair and I definitely think he should tell you if you asked him and he said no. But maybe he thinks telling you would hurt you more. I'm totally just speculating here but the important thing is getting him to be honest about whatever these other problems are... I really don't think the marriage can improve, or he can improve really, without addressing those.

Maybe they will have better advice in the marriage and family section, I don't know. I really don't get not agreeing that someone who thinks they are an alcoholic is not an alcoholic. To me it seems like a very personal thing and who is anyone to question anyone else about it, even a spouse. I'm sure some people have suspicions that I'm an alcoholic or a problem drinker-- the people who drink with me!-- but many other people would have no idea. I have hid how much I drink from people closest to me so as not to be told to stop. And I also think there are different levels of alcoholism- people are affected differently by different quantities and types of alcohol etc. To me if someone thinks they are an alcoholic, they are and they need to address it and I don't feel it's right of you to question your husband's concerns about himself like that. I don't see how AA can ruin a marriage-- I see how it can look religious-y or cult-ish (I'm sure it's not but that's the picture I have of it for some reason and I can see how others/you might see it that way as well), and I don't agree with the position on not revealing affairs and that is really the only thing I could see it directly affecting you and your marriage- otherwise if it helps him and does good things for him then how does it affect your marriage negatively, I don't understand. But I wish you luck.

It's kind of hard to answer your questions because I am struggling with dealing with my own demons and I need support from my family members and friends- if anyone close to me questioned my need to recover or my belief that I have a problem drinking, I would be very hurt. I need their belief in me and their unwavering support. In fact I am too cowardly to tell many people as of yet so if they didn't take me seriously or tried to dissuade my efforts I would be crushed. :-( Maybe that right there is what is affecting your marriage so badly. I feel you should give your husband the benefit of the doubt and really believe with him that he has this problem and that he is working on fixing it- help him instead of detracting from his goal, and maybe things will get a lot better. Good luck.
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:41 PM
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Thank you for your input Susan. I think you missed what I was saying. I was trying to put a lot into a post. My husband and I have had a wonderful marriage. He feels that way too. He just wants me to accept what he is saying without question, which is totally at odds with the person he used to be. I am not in denial about his drinking or our relationship. His job requires random drug and alchohol screenings which he would not have passed had he been drinking as much as he says he was. I'm sure he could have hidden excessive drinking from me, but not the tests. He might have been drinking more than he used to, but he was doingit for a reason. He has several brothers and they are all going through an emotionally hard time in the last few years. All are happily married, but we wives are asking questions now about their father and the abuse in the home. My husband absolutely refuses to talk about his father. No mention of him occurs at family gatherings, of which there are many. As odd as it sounds, I think it is easier for him to be an alchoholic than it is to face his feelings about his father. Our counselor feels he may not be ready. The problem is that he is focusing so much on AA that he is not addressing the problems that led him there and since I am pushingfor him to address his problems I have become the enemy.
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:53 PM
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Welcome to SR Dina

As an alcoholic I absolutely agree with the other guys - I know I was an alcoholic even tho I may not have drunk as much as my friends, I never got in trouble with the law and my bills were all paid on time. I still have friends and family who insist I'm not an alcoholic....

But I can see your concern that your relationship is suffering, and of course that's valid too.

Is your husband aware of your depth of feeling?

Have you considered counselling, maybe even couples counselling, to try and make sense of all this?

I also encourage you to visit our Family and Friends forums here - you'll also find a lot of people down there who've dealt with similar issues

D
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:25 PM
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Dina--I'm relatively new to SR so I'm no expert, but I can get a sense of why your situation is so troubling to you. I will just respond as a long-term wife.

If my husband suddenly took on a project of this magnitude that involved real spiritual development and which did not include me, I would be threatened. In fact, I know my husband is somewhat threatened by my involvement in SR and my very slight involvement in AA. He too does not think I am an alcoholic and encourages moderation rather than quitting.

So I'm trying not to change his routines, which includes a lot of time in places that serve alcohol, because I do not want to exclude him. This makes things hard for me because I am seriously tempted, and I have caught flack on this forum for being around alcohol, but I've said from the outset that I cannot up and change his whole life.

I mention this to you because your husband really seems to be acting independently. Now he has to take care of this problem (as he perceives it) on his own, but your life is involved too. So, if I were you, I would leap on in. I would not argue with him about it but would tell him that he had hid it well but you believe him. I would ask to go to meetings. I would join alanon.

It sounds like he's going through something--alcohol or personal related--and if you want to sustain the marriage, you had better go with him. My husband's mid-life crisis is that he has decided he's a karaoke star. He's not. I go with him.

Even if you just go shopping during his meetings, be there. If there's something you don't want to find out, you'll find it out. If there isn't, you will be supporting him in this new part of his life.

I'm not a big AA fan either. Doesn't matter. If he wants to be a Budhist and I want to stay close to him, I'm going.

(We've been married 28 years too!)
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:34 PM
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Dina: My husband absolutely refuses to talk about his father. No mention of him occurs at family gatherings, of which there are many. As odd as it sounds, I think it is easier for him to be an alchoholic than it is to face his feelings about his father. Our counselor feels he may not be ready. The problem is that he is focusing so much on AA that he is not addressing the problems that led him there and since I am pushing for him to address his problems I have become the enemy.

Dina, If your husband has issues with his childhood, past trauma and/or his father, it is up to him to address those issues if and when he is ready to do so. It is none of your business or your concern to "push him to address" what you think is the basis for his alcohol problem. Your husband's journey to heal his past childhood trauma, his abusive relationship with his father, his alcoholism, or whatever else, is his journey, not yours.

I have a history of significant childhood abuse and trauma. It took a certain level of ego strength, time and distance, a strong support network, etc. before something inside of me was ready to deal with my past (with the help of an excellent therapist). Some people never come to a place where they are able to deal with their past. If your counselor doesn't think your husband is ready, why in the world are you pushing him?

I don't mean to sound harsh, that is not my intent. As an outsider looking in, it seems as if you are meddling in something that isn't yours to solve, remedy, and/or fix. I am sure you want to be loving and supportive. I think that the most loving and supportive thing you can do is to allow your husband the dignity and space of finding his own path, in his own time, and in his own way.
Susan
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:40 PM
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Alcoholism isn't just about the quantity a person drinks, it's also about how they FEEL about it, and how they react to it physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Alcoholics tend to obsess about drinking occasions. I was able to control my drinking outwardly for periods of time, but it was torturing me inside because all I wanted was to drink the way I wanted to.

Most alcoholics spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over alcohol, and when they have a drink, they do not react inside the way normal drinkers do. They have cravings to have more. Even if they are able to not give in to the cravings, they still exist.

So it may be that your husband was able to "control" his drinking externally but still was being controlled by it internally.

It really doesn't matter. The point is that he is doing something he must do, for himself. Your being miserable and critical isn't helping either one of you, nor the relationship. You do NOT have to get on the Al-Anon/AA bandwagon. But if you choose not to do so, you should either graciously tolerate his involvement in AA or move on. Nobody joins AA just for kicks (although it is a great place to be). People go to AA to save their lives and their sanity. Your husband deserves to have a life that is happily free of bondage to alcohol. AA is giving him that freedom. You have no right to stand in his way, whether you like it or not.
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:15 PM
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This may be a harsh comparison, but if your husband told you every time he looked at little kids he was afraid he was going to molest them, surely you would be freaked out and want him to get help..... even though he may not be a raging alcoholic as you define in your mind, if he feels helpless with alcohol and fears it may ruin his life, shouldn't you be happy he is doing this? My husband doesn't believe I am an alcoholic either, because nothing really bad has ever happened. Maybe sometimes I drink too much, but doesn't everyone? That's his way of thinking anyways. But I feel like alcohol might do something bad to me some day and so I am confronting the issue. I have had many thoughts of moderating my drinking, partly so my husband will feel better, but after reading everyone's posts and seeing how most of us fail, I think I will just give it up. Is that so bad? I am not trying to be too harsh, but aren't there worse things than your husband wanting to be sober?
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:47 PM
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Some people use AA to escape from family responsibilities and relationships. While that may not be a popular thing to say around here it is true. It may be the exception rather than the rule, but it is possible that this may be happening. Much of the time the person doing this does not realize what they are doing, but it can be an escape like anything else. Anything can be abused.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:24 PM
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thank you
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:55 PM
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If he was truly an alcoholic he just changed one dependency for another, drinking for AA. It is better for his health, but can do tremendous damage to relationships and marriages where the drinking problem didn't affect the family life.

The power and strength that he used to have has been turned over to AA. I know AA helps millions of people quit drinking, but yours is not an isolated case. And I apologized but I disagree with some of the above posts, he has been your partner in marriage for 30years, and I agree with you, the marriage comes first, and he owes it to you to step back into the marriage and address the issues.

The problem with bringing this issue to a forum where many people rely on AA is you will not find many people who will see your side of the issue because they had to change a very strong belief pattern in which at one point they could not live without alcohol, with a belief pattern that says they can't live without AA. There is nothing wrong with that if it works for you and makes you happy, but when that belief pattern tears apart a family it needs to be addressed and changed. Sorry for your pain.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:17 PM
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From my experience it is not uncommon for an alcohol abuser/dependent person to have more problems that just a alcohol problem.

Marriage counseling seems to me to be the next thing to do. As a rule if I have a gut feeling something is amiss with my loved one, I'm more often right that wrong.

Its not my place to judge you, after all you could be on to something. Yet it would be very irresponsible of me to tell you what you need to do. After all there is usual way much more going on that what can be told in a few post. To be fair I would need to see both party's side of things to make a balanced and nonjudgmental response to you.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:34 PM
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Ok, before this descends into the inevitable...

I'm not in AA Dina, but I absolutely defend the idea of my recovery coming before anything else...because I know without my recovery I'll lose everything else I hold dear anyway.

I learned that, first hand, the hard way...several times.

I hope you and your husband can access some counselling or somethink of that ilk and sort some stuff out

D
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:34 PM
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Dina,
As you have noticed, you will get a range of perspectives on the SR forum. Have you posted your question and described your situation on the Friends and Family Forum? If you haven't, I would encourage you to do so. There is a lot of great advice and wisdom from the folks there.
Susan
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:46 PM
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Welcome Dina. This is a very touchy situation because alcoholics are very sneaky and they lie. Believe me. From your post...I am led to believe that your husband is having issues from his past. These issues are easiest dealt with when he was drinking. Drinking masks problems, it covers them up so we don't feel the real feelings we should be feeling. I spent 30 years drinking and just now am coming to terms with real feelings like happiness, sadness, anger, etc. My (ex) husband always said I was indifferent. And maybe I was somewhat indifferent only because I didn't know how to feel the true sense of my emotions. Everything was always on an even keel.
If your husband is not drinking now he may be having 'issues' with these new feelings that arise. Sometimes they are hard to handle because we certainly don't want to hurt anyone but we need to be honest with our feelings and actually feel them in the open.
My family did not know I drank. After my ex and I separated I got a job (was always a stay at home mom) well, after a few months I went to work drunk and lost my job. When my Mom called asking about my job I had to tell both her and my Dad that I was an alcoholic and headed to rehab and AA, etc. They are my best support and my Dad actually sent me flowers the next day because he could tell I needed to smile. I also had to call my brother and tell him that I was a drunk. No one in my family had any idea after all these years. I hid it pretty well. Very well. It wasn't so much the booze I drank when people watched as the booze I drank when people weren't watching! If we went somewhere I always had had booze beforehand then would 'just have two' to look social. Then when I got home I'd drink more!
As others' said...it's not so much how MUCH you drink as how you FEEL when you drink. If he feels his life was unmaganable with alcohol then who I am I to say he's wrong?!
If your husband felt he had a problem then I would support him.
I love AA -all my friends are there. Why? Because we understand each other. We don't have to explain anything.
As far as the drug testing goes at his job...I know of someone who had his step father give him a sample to use for his job. All your husband has to say to a friend is "hey, I had a couple beers last night, help me out here".
I think marraige counseling might be a good idea since you both need to safe your marriage. That may not be a bad idea.
Wishing you peace and strength.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:13 PM
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Honestly, it doesn't sound like your husband is an alcoholic. However, I am only hearing one side of the story over the internet. Plus, alcoholics lie and hide their drinking.

Either way, there is a problem that needs to be addressed and sounds like that problem runs deeper than figuring out if your husband is an alcoholic or not. Plus, it may be better to look how to fix this problem before you fully understand it. Sometimes action precedes understanding.

I am in no position to give advice on how to handle your situation besides questioning if your focus is in the correct direction during these confusing times.

Bests,
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:20 AM
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I'm not in AA, so I can't speak from that experience, but it does seem very odd that your husband would want to shut you out after 30 years of marriage in favor of his friends at AA, even if AA is truly helping him recover from alcoholism. I found my sobriety experience the exact opposite; instead of drifting away from my wife of 36 years, I decided I wanted to become closer to her to see just what it was about her that enabled her to support me all the years while I was drinking. Of course, when one decides to become sober, it has to become a major priority or recovery may not be successful. I think we can all agree on that. However, I found that the most beneficial factor of my support came from my family and friends, and my wife has truly been the most instrumental and most supportive element anyone could possibly ask for.

I tend to agree with others when they say that something sounds amiss or unusual, and without hearing what your husband has to say, it really is very difficult for any of us to draw any conclusions or to give sound advice. But, from what you're saying, it does indeed sound to me as though there may very well be an underlying problem or issue that needs to be brought out into the open.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:34 AM
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A lot of AA is about addressing codependency in our relationships; not just our codependency with alcohol. Sounds like he is unhappy in your marriage and hasn't decided what he wants to do next. You sound pretty unhappy too. Have you guys tried working together on your marriage with a counselor? Maybe separating isn't the worst idea either. It sounds to me like you're in his head and out of your own because of it and maybe a little distance would help.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:51 AM
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Wow this is certainly a most strange situation you are finding yourself in! How long have you two been married? My initial thought is have you met these "brothers?" And do you do marriage counseling or is it just hubby that's seeing a counselor? Alcoholism or not you have a family problem and it won't get solved unless both of you are active in helping the relationship get better.

I'm assuming that he is using your "lack of understanding" as an excuse to pull away from the relationship with you and you are just angry with him for not being part of the relationship and putting these strangers before your family???

There doesn't need to be an affair for a marriage to end. Any relationship that sucks the life out of the marriage can ruin it. That seems to be happening here. You can't deny that there is a problem whether you think it's all in his mind or AA is sucking him in. Bottom line is your marriage is in trouble and you are going to have to get yourself some counseling too and then get some marriage counseling to figure out what the heck is going on.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time.
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