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thinks he's an alchoholic

Old 06-07-2011, 04:14 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by susanlauren View Post
ResumeBreakdown: If one has taken the steps and had a spiritual awakening, the meetings are not mandatory. Once a week should be enough to keep plugged in.

If one has had a spiritual awakening, then one would recognize the absolute necessity of working with others and giving the program away to newcomers and other AAs who need it and want it. You are free to work your program however you see fit, ResumeBreakdown, but there would be few folks with recovery in the rooms to share the AA message with the newcomer if they all decided they were going to go to one meeting a week. I am not saying that seven meetings a week is the ideal either. I think the key word here is balance.
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I didn't mean to imply that people should not do 12th step work at all.

But, if you are married with a job and four kids, for example, there are only so many "new" people you can properly sponsor.

I have a personal limit, otherwise it tends to get out of hand. Once the current ones get established and it seems they are OK, I will then offer help to others.

But, I don't need to go to meetings to work with them.

They can meet me at home after work, so that I can still spend time with my family.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:46 PM
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I would suggest that Mrs. Dina has many more options than (1) get used to it, (2) get a divorce, or (3) join Al-Anon and/or attend AA meeting with her husband.

Let's see, she could: take a class at her community college, volunteer at the local hospital or library or food pantry or elsewhere, take up a hobby, start a business, run for school board or city council, join a book club, refinish furniture, work on herself in therapy, take up knitting, join a health club or gym, read a book she has been meaning to read, go for a hike in the park, work at the local animal shelter, the list is endless.

The problem as I see it is that Mrs. Dina is so focused on her husband and her husband's "issues" that she doesn't seem to have a life of her own. I could be wrong.


Pretty big judgements to be making on someone who posted a couple of questions questioning some aspects of AA, don't you think?

Are you married Susan or have you ever been?

It's sounds as if you would basically break up a 30 year marriage with kids involved for the ability to stay involved with AA. Do I have that correct?

A healthy recovery program will allow for the person in recovery to have a life outside of it. It gets people to the point that they don't have to rely on outside groups to live a happy rewarding life.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:57 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by susanlauren View Post
Violation of marital trust: don't you think that Mrs. Dina is doing the exact same thing as her husband is "supposedly" doing at his AA meetings by posting on the SR board?
Sorry to respond twice, but I never said Dina's husband was doing this. I was responding to DarkLight's comment about many spouses feeling like they have to "compete" with AA.

If you have been to Open Discussion meetings, which it seems you have from your comment about them being therapy sessions without the therapist, you know that what I said is true.

People often disclose information that their spouse may not want disclosed outside of a confidential environment, such as with a therapist. Open Discussion meetings, by their very nature, are not confidential.

I live with a teetotaler, and she would control how many drinks I had all the time. Of course, I was always hiding and sneaking drinks, so her count was usually way off, but that's another story.

I can emphasize with what Dina is saying here. She says that she does not drink and never has, so it is logical that she may not be able to understand.

But, I think that we also have to take into account that it may be unreasonable for us to expect someone who has never had a drink in their life to understand.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:05 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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It's not that I really monitored my husbands drinking so much as I watched everyone. I don't drink (don't understand the appeal) and amongst our friends I am the person who watches over them. It's more a protector thing than anything else. By the way my husband has said he was only an alchoholic for 2 years. Before that he says he was fine and I think he was. We owned a business together and were pretty much together 24/7, so not much opportunity to get drunk working 60 hours a week. He did have some trouble adjusting after we sold our buisness (we ran it for 25 years) . He was used to being the boss.

I have been going to counseling with him, but at this point he blames me for all that is going wrong.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:06 PM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Darklight View Post
Originally Posted by resumebreakdown View Post
I am the most realest "real alcoholic" there is. :-)
Well then! =)
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I hope people got that I was joking somewhat. I did put a smilie. :-)

I've seen too many people try and tell other people that they are or are not alcoholic, or not "real" alcoholics. It surprised me when someone said it to me so soon after I posted.

The Big Book, and many of Bill Wilson's writings, tell us that alcoholic is a self diagnosis, and that no one can make it for you.

He also makes clear that many alcoholics (yes, even real alcoholics) can quit drinking without the AA program.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dina3 View Post
It's not that I really monitored my husbands drinking so much as I watched everyone. I don't drink (don't understand the appeal) and amongst our friends I am the person who watches over them. It's more a protector thing than anything else. By the way my husband has said he was only an alchoholic for 2 years. Before that he says he was fine and I think he was. We owned a business together and were pretty much together 24/7, so not much opportunity to get drunk working 60 hours a week. He did have some trouble adjusting after we sold our buisness (we ran it for 25 years) . He was used to being the boss.

I have been going to counseling with him, but at this point he blames me for all that is going wrong.
There's a lot here in the thread to chew over Dina - from all points of the compass - but only you and your husband really know the full situation.

I hope the counselling will eventually help you both reach some peace

D
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:15 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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I do have a life. I have a masters degree and a job that I love. I have my own circle of friends and well as our circle of friends together. It's funny you mention taking classes because I always told my husband should try some college courses. He has never gone but I think he's one of the most intelligent people I know and he would do well.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:18 PM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dina3 View Post
It's not that I really monitored my husbands drinking so much as I watched everyone. I don't drink (don't understand the appeal) and amongst our friends I am the person who watches over them. It's more a protector thing than anything else.
Dina,

Yes, I know. "Those people" keeping track of how many drinks I had used to annoy me during my drinking days. :-)

BTW, check your private messages. At the top right of page where your name is, click where it says "private messages".
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:38 PM
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Judgmental. (Sigh.) I've certainly been called worse. Maybe I am being judgmental. I will say that the original post pushed some of my buttons. I am flabbergasted that a spouse would write and complain about something that 99% of the family members on the Family and Friends Forum beg, plead, wish, hope, and pray for.

Let's see: 30 year marriage vs. attending AA meetings. Nah. I think he should stop attending AA, pretend he's not an alcoholic, resume drinking, continue a spiral into end stage alcoholism, die as a either a direct or an indirect result of alcoholism, leaving his wife of 30 years a widow. It sounds like the supreme act of love and devotion to me.

Maybe the real problem here is choice of recovery programs. If he would just choose Rational Recovery instead of Alcoholics Anonymous then all would be well. Is that what you are suggesting Supercrew? If it is, why not just come right out and say it.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:25 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Dina, I am so glad you have stuck with us

My wife and I are business partners as well... We go all the way back through college and high school... Together for 35 years!! Married 27...

My situation is different than your's. I would like to offer only that this is all real hard, for all of us. The spouses as much as those of us working our way out of addiction, alcoholism, dependence, whatever...

But the end result should be happiness!!!

Something is missing with you and your husband.... AA can be a big warm comfortable blanket and can be a place where avoidance happens... If one is not truly working a program of recovery but just going through the motions... Being recovered means that we don't blame others ... Sounds like he has some work to do.... Maybe you do to.

Hang in there!!! As I said before, prayers to you, both of you.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:22 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by susanlauren View Post
I wonder what Mr. Dina would write about the situation if he were posting on the SR board. We are only hearing things from Mrs. Dina's perspective.

Violation of marital trust: don't you think that Mrs. Dina is doing the exact same thing as her husband is "supposedly" doing at his AA meetings by posting on the SR board? At the meetings I go to, people seldom talk about their spouse or significant other -- the focus of sharing is on program topics, AA books and literature, the steps, the traditions.

I would suggest that Mrs. Dina has many more options than (1) get used to it, (2) get a divorce, or (3) join Al-Anon and/or attend AA meeting with her husband.

Let's see, she could: take a class at her community college, volunteer at the local hospital or library or food pantry or elsewhere, take up a hobby, start a business, run for school board or city council, join a book club, refinish furniture, work on herself in therapy, take up knitting, join a health club or gym, read a book she has been meaning to read, go for a hike in the park, work at the local animal shelter, the list is endless.

The problem as I see it is that Mrs. Dina is so focused on her husband and her husband's "issues" that she doesn't seem to have a life of her own. I could be wrong.

Maybe I've read too many posts over in Family and Friends Forum where folks are hoping and praying (sometimes begging and pleading) that their spouse, significant other, son, daughter, etc. will recognize their alcoholism and find the rooms of AA and recovery. I am completely taken a back by the question and concerns raised by the original poster.
Susan
WOW Susan...I was just thinking the same thing!
I'm not even sure how many of the members of my group are married because 'they' are not the issue. The alcoholic is. All of the stories I've heard are "When I was drinking..." not "My spouse said this if I did that..."

I think some opinions of the relationship in AA are grossly mistrued.
My group has a life outside of AA we are friends not lovers! LOL...I've never seen spouses at a meeting and that would mean the meeting was closed.

I really hope the two of you can work this out -together...
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:29 PM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by resumebreakdown View Post
I've seen too many people try and tell other people that they are or are not alcoholic, or not "real" alcoholics. It surprised me when someone said it to me so soon after I posted.

.
I didn't see an introduction thread for you...so I was wondering the same thing because alot of people jump on here and we don't know their story. Maybe a brief introduction would suffice so we know you are really an alcoholic! LOL
Maybe you did and I didn't see it...I just got home from work and this is the first thread I jumped on, too.

Peace -and welcome.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:48 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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I can understand all your concerns about your husband but I would really suggest you go seek out Al Anon meetings in your area and get some support for yourself. You are so focused on him and his problems and Al Anon helps you to detach and focus on yourself. Once that occurs, miracles can happen. Your increased knowledge about Alcoholism and the tools you will obtain about yourself and your part in the disease will be eye opening. It has happened to me. You will see that our co-dependent behavior is actually part of the whole picture. Once you address that and your husband sees that he may very well begin to open up more.

It truly can't hurt you and you may be surprised.Go to at least 6 meetings before you decide it is or isn't for you. Try several. I have found a wonderful support group and I have learned so much. Many women in the meetings have better relationships with their husbands and boyfriends than they ever have. This was due to the changes they made in themselves.

Good luck and be well.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by EmeraldRose View Post
I didn't see an introduction thread for you...so I was wondering the same thing because alot of people jump on here and we don't know their story. Maybe a brief introduction would suffice so we know you are really an alcoholic! LOL
Maybe you did and I didn't see it...I just got home from work and this is the first thread I jumped on, too.

Peace -and welcome.
Hello. All I said was that it is not unusual for a spouse that does not drink to "keep tabs" on the spouse that does. My wife used to do that all the time when I drank.

I have a family, four kids, a wife who never drinks, so I understand this situation somewhat. She would kill me if I went to meetings every single day and neglected the kids. She did not want to go to Al-Anon, and I can understand that somewhat. She had to put up with my drinking for so long, why should she have to now take time away from the family? She never drank in her life.

I go to one meeting a week, and I tell those I sponsor that they should be there on the day I go, and that they can of course go to others in addition to that one. My wife lets me have people over to study the BB at our house, but I don't make it a party. It is a quiet, intense study session.

I think the sponsor should be more like a tutor. When I sponsor people, I walk them through the first 164 pages and the 12 Steps, but I make sure to tell them that I won't be a babysitter. I tell them I will walk them through the book and the steps, but that if they want a babysitter, they have to find another sponsor.

I already have my own kids to babysit. :-)

Anyway, yes, I am a real alcoholic. For several years I was drinking all day every day, and somehow, remarkably, my wife did not leave me. I haven't drank in over ten years now.

That said, the Big Book states very clearly that alcoholic is a self diagnosis, and that no one can make it for you.

Originally Posted by Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st Edition, Page 31
“We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself.”
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by susanlauren View Post
Judgmental. (Sigh.) I've certainly been called worse. Maybe I am being judgmental. I will say that the original post pushed some of my buttons. I am flabbergasted that a spouse would write and complain about something that 99% of the family members on the Family and Friends Forum beg, plead, wish, hope, and pray for.

Let's see: 30 year marriage vs. attending AA meetings. Nah. I think he should stop attending AA, pretend he's not an alcoholic, resume drinking, continue a spiral into end stage alcoholism, die as a either a direct or an indirect result of alcoholism, leaving his wife of 30 years a widow. It sounds like the supreme act of love and devotion to me.

Maybe the real problem here is choice of recovery programs. If he would just choose Rational Recovery instead of Alcoholics Anonymous then all would be well. Is that what you are suggesting Supercrew? If it is, why not just come right out and say it.
Susan
So not attending AA equals spiraling to end stage alcoholism then death? Those are the only 2 options in your mind?

I don't back any recovery program, I say use what works best for you. By "you" I mean what is healthiest for you, your family, and your immediate environment. They key is finding a way to become sober that keeps you happy and doesn't negatively affect the positive things in your life...like your 30 year marriage.

The goal of a healthy long lasting recovery should be a positive outcome on all fronts.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:57 PM
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Lets focus on the OP thanks.

There's a lot of other discussions going on here - some are more related to the thread than others.

Some discussions are best suited to a one on one setting. Use your PMs.
I'm sure we all know where the line is.

D
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:40 AM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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It's not that I really monitored my husbands drinking so much as I watched everyone. I don't drink (don't understand the appeal) and amongst our friends I am the person who watches over them. It's more a protector thing than anything else.
Watching over, being a protector? You could have codependency issues: there is a forum here for codependents. Lots of people have absolutely no interest in what other people drink: they feel no need to protect or monitor other adult people: protecting and monitoring is what parents do for children, not what adults do for each other. Protecting, monitoring is classic codependent behavior. Am I saying you are one? No, I don't know enough about you. Only you will ever know if you are.
By the way my husband has said he was only an alchoholic for 2 years.
That is probably not possible. I am of the school of thought that we are born alcoholics. Again, many may disagree with me there. That is my opinion.

Before that he says he was fine and I think he was. We owned a business together and were pretty much together 24/7, so not much opportunity to get drunk working 60 hours a week. He did have some trouble adjusting after we sold our buisness (we ran it for 25 years) . He was used to being the boss.
Do you mean that he drank when you sold the business?

I have been going to counseling with him, but at this point he blames me for all that is going wrong
Well, that statement surprises me. If he is going to AA and working the steps, especially 3 an 4, he would not be blaming you for all the problems. The opposite would be happening, more than likely.

I think dina dear...that one thing is clear. You are having marriage problems! Are they alcohol related? Who knows? Your husband thinks he is an alcoholic. Maybe he knows about himself, maybe he should be trusted to believe that about himself. Maybe he is not. Lord knows there are plenty of non-alcoholics in the rooms of AA and they drive me nuts. I want to hear a REAL alcoholic share their story, not some girl who has eating disorders share about how much food she threw up in the morning.
But...despite my resentment about all the non-alkies in AA, the fact is that the 12 steps helps those people. The food addicts, the dope heads, the manic depressives...all those people who aren't really drunks actually get better in AA.

And Dina, that is because the 12 steps are really a fantastic way for anyone to develop and improve as a human being. Your husbands attempt to right the wrongs and rectify the perceived wrongs he has done to you in the past sound like a good thing. I have to say this: maybe you didn't want to hear about those past wrongs? Maybe this whole process is uncomfortable for you because it is forcing you to change, too?
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:10 AM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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Also Dina, please remember that you are in an alcohol/addiction recovery website asking alcoholics for advice on your marriage, so I would take a step back after you read each reply and remember who it is coming from. Probably not the best people to try and get maritial advice from.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by littlefish View Post
Watching over, being a protector? You could have codependency issues: there is a forum here for codependents. Lots of people have absolutely no interest in what other people drink: they feel no need to protect or monitor other adult people: protecting and monitoring is what parents do for children, not what adults do for each other. Protecting, monitoring is classic codependent behavior.
Dina,

You do not have "codependency issues" just because you watch over your husband and your mutual friends when they drink.

Many of us former drinkers would have done many very unwise things - like driving - if someone hadn't been keeping an eye out.

When we have guests over for a party, you bet I am keeping an eye on those friends I know have a tendency to skip the hors d'œuvres and head straight for the drinks.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:59 AM
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resumebreakdown: you can be an alcoholic AND codependent. It is not normal to zero in on the guests and watch what they drink.

I would also like to clarify resumebreakdown that I did not diagnose Dina, I did NOT say she has codependency issues, but I did go out on a limb and say that she "might" have them.

It is highly likely that a woman who lives with an alcoholic just might be codependent. That is well within the parameters of what is polite and acceptable on this forum for me to suggest that she might be. It is unacceptable for me to say she is, and I didn't. I think I followed the rules of the forum by saying that she "could" be.

yah know resumebreakdown, it is lucky for you that your "someone" "kept an eye on you" and didn't let you drive drunk. You are making a lot of assumptions about people if you think other partners did the same as your "someone" did. They don't. Hence the huge amount of DUI deaths and injuries every year.

The whole point is that we aren't supposed to be babysat and treated like children. We are supposed to be responsible, stay sober and not do all the crap we do when we drink. Waiting for someone to have an eye on us is just cultivating codies around us.
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