Searching for the right way to be taught the 12 steps
Searching for the right way to be taught the 12 steps
I recently relapsed several times and am now at day 3. In the one month of sobriety I did a lot of studying on the 12 steps. With my sponsor and a lot with recordings of Joe and Charlie. I was told that Joe and Charlie are an excelent source of information on doing the 12 steps.
I have learned more in the past month then i have in the past year. My sponsor never gives me his bias opinion or interpitation of what the steps are or are about. He references everything to the big book, and teaches every step the way it's laid out in the big book. Unfortunately I need to switch to a different sponsor.
My main question is how do you know if your sponsor is teaching you the steps the right way? I had one sponsor that didn't seem to know anything about teaching stepwork. Then this one that did everything right from the big book. I feel more inclined to say that the steps should be done straigt from the big book with no personal spins or exercises, eg. "Make a list of 10 things you are powerless over for step one"
Some people do not agree with me on this and say that there is no one way to do the 12 steps. The big book says that chapters 5-7 (steps 3-12) have "clear cut directions"
Whichever way you lean, I would greatly like to hear your opinion on how the 12 steps should be tought. Thank you.
I have learned more in the past month then i have in the past year. My sponsor never gives me his bias opinion or interpitation of what the steps are or are about. He references everything to the big book, and teaches every step the way it's laid out in the big book. Unfortunately I need to switch to a different sponsor.
My main question is how do you know if your sponsor is teaching you the steps the right way? I had one sponsor that didn't seem to know anything about teaching stepwork. Then this one that did everything right from the big book. I feel more inclined to say that the steps should be done straigt from the big book with no personal spins or exercises, eg. "Make a list of 10 things you are powerless over for step one"
Some people do not agree with me on this and say that there is no one way to do the 12 steps. The big book says that chapters 5-7 (steps 3-12) have "clear cut directions"
Whichever way you lean, I would greatly like to hear your opinion on how the 12 steps should be tought. Thank you.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Quick question, if you admired your sponsor for not giving you his opinions and interpretations, why would you admire J&C for selling their opinions and interpretations of the steps and our book? Having your own understanding and experience with our material shouldn't be sacrificed in favor of taking on board that of any false wannabee authorities.
Listen when others tell you what they found to be true for them, but make your own search. What they did, what they came to understand and believe does you not the least bit of good.
Listen when others tell you what they found to be true for them, but make your own search. What they did, what they came to understand and believe does you not the least bit of good.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
I take guys through the BB, sharing my experience and asking them to consider their own. We find the directions and actions required for each of the Steps.
That pretty much covers it.
Originally Posted by AA BB 1st
Doubtless you are curious to discover how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body. If you are an alcoholic who wants to get over it, you may already be asking What do I have to do?"
It is the purpose of this book to answer such questions specifically. We shall tell you what we have done.
It is the purpose of this book to answer such questions specifically. We shall tell you what we have done.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Medicine Lodge Kansas
Posts: 47
When an alcoholic finally makes it to AA he or she is in the bottom of a self dug grave.
The goal is to climb out of the grave by using the ladder that is lowered down to you.
The ladder has twelve rungs. The ladder is the spiritual program of AA and the rungs are the steps. The disease is the shovel. So put the shovel down and grasp, firmly grasp step one rung and have your sponsor help you do that.
The goal is to climb out of the grave by using the ladder that is lowered down to you.
The ladder has twelve rungs. The ladder is the spiritual program of AA and the rungs are the steps. The disease is the shovel. So put the shovel down and grasp, firmly grasp step one rung and have your sponsor help you do that.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the high desert
Posts: 887
I tend to agree with you. The steps should be taught, learned, worked andexperienced out of the big book. I am fortunate to have a sponsor who does just that. And am fortunate to live in a place where that is fairly common.
AA is not therapy, individual or group. The original Fellowship did not use workbooks, worksheets or various exercises. They didn't use the 12 x12, either.
How do you know what someone will do as a sponsor? My only thought on that is ask and talk about it.
AA is not therapy, individual or group. The original Fellowship did not use workbooks, worksheets or various exercises. They didn't use the 12 x12, either.
How do you know what someone will do as a sponsor? My only thought on that is ask and talk about it.
Hi Dune-
My sponsor reads every word to me in the BB and we take the steps as we get to them in the book, in order as they are written.
As he reads aloud, I highlight and stop and ask questions along the way.
Kjell~
My sponsor reads every word to me in the BB and we take the steps as we get to them in the book, in order as they are written.
As he reads aloud, I highlight and stop and ask questions along the way.
Kjell~
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
It's still the most powerful message in all of AA. 'Here are the Steps we took.' Here is what we did to recover.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Nothing seemed to "work" for me in the first 18 months sober, even though I was going to BB Study, 2-3 meetings a day, Step workshops etc.
Name it and I went, miserably.
My 3rd sponsor took me through the steps on a one-on-basis. But he was one of those "sponges", you know the types, they read and can transmit what they read. His mind is single file, mine is an array like stray cats!
I read, but I have trouble explaining it to to others. Even my experiences I have that problem, explaining my expireinces.
It was during Step 4, I was dreading it, not getting "better", and at a all time low in sobriety.
I am not sure what we tried as in Step 4 sheets, but it seemed so overwhelming with multiple column Step 4 sheets. It was Joe and Charlie one minute, another's Step 4 sheet the next day. I had sheets everywhere.
I felt I needed to do a degree in astro-physics to understand it, and all along at meetings I hear, "keep it simple".
I think what happened next was "God Job".
Too long a share to go into details.
But what is working for me today is the Paul F. method, not that it is unique or different, it's quick and to the point once the sessions get started and ALL references are BB.
On my blog I tried to write my experience but gave up.
On the last blog is the info. to download the Paul F MP3 files.
PM me if you do and I'll explain what the 9 files are.
You don't have to listen to all 9 files. 2-9 are duplicates, so it's realy 4 files, 4 sessions, 1 session per week.
I don't worry about file 1 but listen to if you want to.
I am not saying it is better, or "right", I'm simply saying it worked for many of us who have taken the steps in that manner as it was shown to him by his sponsor and the illustrations for some we relate to, others don't.
He say's it is the manner the steps were taken in the early 1940's.
The main point is, I found I do not need to know or read EVERY line of the BB, just the "key" sections, actions and considerations. It's like a recipe.
I use a yellow hi-lighter for his sections read out, and a different color for what stands out to me. Soon the links connect, the obsession is removed and the clarity to explain the interim to a newcomer is clearer.
But I also found I need to keep practicing this, cos like a real alcoholic, the memory tends to fade.
Can't get any simpler, press the play button and ya "on"!
Name it and I went, miserably.
My 3rd sponsor took me through the steps on a one-on-basis. But he was one of those "sponges", you know the types, they read and can transmit what they read. His mind is single file, mine is an array like stray cats!
I read, but I have trouble explaining it to to others. Even my experiences I have that problem, explaining my expireinces.
It was during Step 4, I was dreading it, not getting "better", and at a all time low in sobriety.
I am not sure what we tried as in Step 4 sheets, but it seemed so overwhelming with multiple column Step 4 sheets. It was Joe and Charlie one minute, another's Step 4 sheet the next day. I had sheets everywhere.
I felt I needed to do a degree in astro-physics to understand it, and all along at meetings I hear, "keep it simple".
I think what happened next was "God Job".
Too long a share to go into details.
But what is working for me today is the Paul F. method, not that it is unique or different, it's quick and to the point once the sessions get started and ALL references are BB.
On my blog I tried to write my experience but gave up.
On the last blog is the info. to download the Paul F MP3 files.
PM me if you do and I'll explain what the 9 files are.
You don't have to listen to all 9 files. 2-9 are duplicates, so it's realy 4 files, 4 sessions, 1 session per week.
I don't worry about file 1 but listen to if you want to.
I am not saying it is better, or "right", I'm simply saying it worked for many of us who have taken the steps in that manner as it was shown to him by his sponsor and the illustrations for some we relate to, others don't.
He say's it is the manner the steps were taken in the early 1940's.
The main point is, I found I do not need to know or read EVERY line of the BB, just the "key" sections, actions and considerations. It's like a recipe.
I use a yellow hi-lighter for his sections read out, and a different color for what stands out to me. Soon the links connect, the obsession is removed and the clarity to explain the interim to a newcomer is clearer.
But I also found I need to keep practicing this, cos like a real alcoholic, the memory tends to fade.
Can't get any simpler, press the play button and ya "on"!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
I think it's really important to understand that the steps are an experience, not an intellectual exercise. So finding someone who has had an experience with them-- has recovered-- is key to your experience.
And the notion that there are multiple ways to work them is popular, but really unsupportable when you read AA literature. They are clear-cut directions on how to recover, and they are written in the Big Book. The 12 and 12 provides some nice context, but lacks directions.
There are no writing directions for steps 1, 2, 3 in the Big Book, so why write anything? Reading from the preface to page 63 and going through it with your sponsor-- understanding the various parts of Step 1 (physical, mental, spiritual), the idea of willingness and your conception of a higher power in Step 2, and making a decision in Step 3. We start writing in Step 4.
I may sound a bit autocratic about this, but it's what worked for me and countless others. People's experiences may differ, but the process should really be the same.
And the notion that there are multiple ways to work them is popular, but really unsupportable when you read AA literature. They are clear-cut directions on how to recover, and they are written in the Big Book. The 12 and 12 provides some nice context, but lacks directions.
There are no writing directions for steps 1, 2, 3 in the Big Book, so why write anything? Reading from the preface to page 63 and going through it with your sponsor-- understanding the various parts of Step 1 (physical, mental, spiritual), the idea of willingness and your conception of a higher power in Step 2, and making a decision in Step 3. We start writing in Step 4.
I may sound a bit autocratic about this, but it's what worked for me and countless others. People's experiences may differ, but the process should really be the same.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the high desert
Posts: 887
Although I agree with your view (not that it matters), technically, the original Fellowship didn't use the BB either. Rather, they passed on from person to person the experience of the actions they took to recover.
It's still the most powerful message in all of AA. 'Here are the Steps we took.' Here is what we did to recover.
It's still the most powerful message in all of AA. 'Here are the Steps we took.' Here is what we did to recover.
"We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."
Thanks for pointing out that detail!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
LOL Keith! Of course they didn't. But the Big Book contains what they did. It is the written version of the steps they took, which is the only guide we have today. The book was written so that they could share that with those of us who did not have access to them:
"We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."
Thanks for pointing out that detail!
"We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."
Thanks for pointing out that detail!
- We admitted we were licked.
- We got honest with ourselves.
- We talked it over with another person.
- We made amends to those we had harmed.
- We tried to carry this message to others with no thought of reward.
- We prayed to whatever God we thought there was
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the high desert
Posts: 887
The steps of the Oxford group were used, yes. But in Bill's story, you can actually see where he took the 12 steps as outlined in the book. I suppose it is impossible for any of us today to know exactly what they did other than to take their word for it as soured above from the forward to the first edition.
XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
Click on this link, download from the top, and just listen. It's the Sandy B tapes. Thsi speaker has helped me SOOOO MUCH. Every bit as much, if not more, than Joe and Charlie. I think you'll really find them helpful.
Also, I would strongly suggest a workshop. I'm in two right now and they are so much more helpful than meetings with regards to actually discussing the 12 steps.
Remember, we "get it", by "doing it". My journey in step work has shown me that over time, I understand them so much better. In other words, the evolve in me, over time. By working with a sponsor, going to meetings, doing workshops, talking to others, and listening to these recovery tapes, my understanding / acceptance has grown so much.
Just jump in head first man! Sobriety is literally just sitting there waiting for you to go get it. Like the book says, "drop the rock" and just get after it!!!!
Click on this link, download from the top, and just listen. It's the Sandy B tapes. Thsi speaker has helped me SOOOO MUCH. Every bit as much, if not more, than Joe and Charlie. I think you'll really find them helpful.
Also, I would strongly suggest a workshop. I'm in two right now and they are so much more helpful than meetings with regards to actually discussing the 12 steps.
Remember, we "get it", by "doing it". My journey in step work has shown me that over time, I understand them so much better. In other words, the evolve in me, over time. By working with a sponsor, going to meetings, doing workshops, talking to others, and listening to these recovery tapes, my understanding / acceptance has grown so much.
Just jump in head first man! Sobriety is literally just sitting there waiting for you to go get it. Like the book says, "drop the rock" and just get after it!!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: dayton, oh
Posts: 487
I don't believe the steps need to be taught, they are self-explanatory. If you are living a sober life in recovery you will find you are doing the steps everyday. Being grateful, giving to and helping others, talking with God, knowing God is with you, reading about spirituality and alcoholism and loving yourself; all these things will help you understand the what joy is.
SH
SH
Thank you everyone for your responces. I've been talking to a lot of people about this issue for the last couple of days and usually get responses that just leave me with either more questions or just more frustrated. This is such a great site! And has helped me so much with my recovery.
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