What is the deal with the mention of god in the steps?
utopist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Lenina 
Kantaki,
Welcome to SR! I'm on Pacific Daylight Time, so it's nine hours behind Germany.
Love,
Lenina
Welcome to SR! I'm on Pacific Daylight Time, so it's nine hours behind Germany.
Love,
Lenina
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: I'm exactly where I should be.
Posts: 1,889
Guten Tag, Kantaki...I'm sorry for your struggles right now but finding support would be a good idea.
I am in AA and am happy for support they give. The talk of the god or higher power is whatever you believe your higher power or spirituality to be. It does not have to be a god. I believe that my world revolves around timing. Everything happens for a reason and the fact that you are here now is not a coincidence. Everything is meant to be in its own time, if that makes sense.
Glad you are here.
I am in AA and am happy for support they give. The talk of the god or higher power is whatever you believe your higher power or spirituality to be. It does not have to be a god. I believe that my world revolves around timing. Everything happens for a reason and the fact that you are here now is not a coincidence. Everything is meant to be in its own time, if that makes sense.
Glad you are here.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
Cause that's the gist of AA plain and simple.
Chapter 4 of the BB First edition Pg44
Appendix of the same Book
Chapter 4 of the BB First edition Pg44
If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
The terms "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
It's pretty common for people to immediately think "religion" when they see the word "God." I know it was for me. And the concepts and thoughts I had about God and religion were not positive.
But-- I would really encourage you to put all of that to the side for now.
The core issue that you need to come to terms with is your power, or lack thereof, over alcohol. Do you believe you've lost complete control, and your life is unmanageable? The steps of AA are for chronic alcoholics who have admitted complete defeat. Because it's only in that state that we were willing to be open to a new conception of a higher power-- something, anything-- that could save us from our problem.
So I would encourage you to put aside words like "God" and "religion" and consider instead
a) do you drink more than you plan when you drink?
b) do you swear off drinking and then return to it?
c) is alcohol ruining aspects of your life?
In short, are you out of options?
If you are, you might then open yourself to a process-- the 12 steps-- that can lead us to a higher power of our own conception. We don't get it by praying, we get it by looking at ourselves-- doing an inventory-- and seeing just how fear and resentment run our lives. We get it by writing, sharing it with another person, and then making amends to those whom we've harmed.
This entire process is what connects us with a "god" that can solve our problems.
But-- I would really encourage you to put all of that to the side for now.
The core issue that you need to come to terms with is your power, or lack thereof, over alcohol. Do you believe you've lost complete control, and your life is unmanageable? The steps of AA are for chronic alcoholics who have admitted complete defeat. Because it's only in that state that we were willing to be open to a new conception of a higher power-- something, anything-- that could save us from our problem.
So I would encourage you to put aside words like "God" and "religion" and consider instead
a) do you drink more than you plan when you drink?
b) do you swear off drinking and then return to it?
c) is alcohol ruining aspects of your life?
In short, are you out of options?
If you are, you might then open yourself to a process-- the 12 steps-- that can lead us to a higher power of our own conception. We don't get it by praying, we get it by looking at ourselves-- doing an inventory-- and seeing just how fear and resentment run our lives. We get it by writing, sharing it with another person, and then making amends to those whom we've harmed.
This entire process is what connects us with a "god" that can solve our problems.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 28
i'm new here also friend and am wanting to start living an alcohol free life. Today is my first day without turning to it for comfort. If I can do it I know you can. Just wanted to stop by and say good luck and find what works for you. If you need an ear I as well as many many others are here. :ghug3
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,937
Religion is concerned with Who God is, spirituality is concerned with what God does.
Religion has an important historical dimension, spirituality is concerned with right here, right now.
Religion has a speculative quality while spirituality is entirely practical.
Religion focuses on Gods relationship with mankind, spirituality focuses on a individuals relationship with God.
Religion is concerned with Gods relationship with the universe, spirituality is concerned with the individual persons place in the universe.
Religion has an important historical dimension, spirituality is concerned with right here, right now.
Religion has a speculative quality while spirituality is entirely practical.
Religion focuses on Gods relationship with mankind, spirituality focuses on a individuals relationship with God.
Religion is concerned with Gods relationship with the universe, spirituality is concerned with the individual persons place in the universe.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by BadCompany
Religion is concerned with Who God is, spirituality is concerned with what God does.
Religion has an important historical dimension, spirituality is concerned with right here, right now.
Religion has a speculative quality while spirituality is entirely practical.
Religion focuses on Gods relationship with mankind, spirituality focuses on a individuals relationship with God.
Religion is concerned with Gods relationship with the universe, spirituality is concerned with the individual persons place in the universe.
Religion has an important historical dimension, spirituality is concerned with right here, right now.
Religion has a speculative quality while spirituality is entirely practical.
Religion focuses on Gods relationship with mankind, spirituality focuses on a individuals relationship with God.
Religion is concerned with Gods relationship with the universe, spirituality is concerned with the individual persons place in the universe.
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,452
Reading the chapter called We Agnostics may be helpful.
What is the deal with the mention of God in the steps?
You may wish to read up on AA History. This may be helpful to find out the origin of AA.
Reading Bill's Story in the big book may be helpful as well.
What is the deal with the mention of God in the steps?
You may wish to read up on AA History. This may be helpful to find out the origin of AA.
Reading Bill's Story in the big book may be helpful as well.
utopist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 16
thanks for the replies :ghug3
I'm catching up on the numerous helpful links...
I feel so exceptionally numb sober. Is it common for alcoholics to justify the booze with "creativity, seldom achieved in sobriety"?
I'm catching up on the numerous helpful links...
I feel so exceptionally numb sober. Is it common for alcoholics to justify the booze with "creativity, seldom achieved in sobriety"?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by Kantaki
thanks for the replies :ghug3
I'm catching up on the numerous helpful links...
I feel so exceptionally numb sober. Is it common for alcoholics to justify the booze with "creativity, seldom achieved in sobriety"?
I'm catching up on the numerous helpful links...
I feel so exceptionally numb sober. Is it common for alcoholics to justify the booze with "creativity, seldom achieved in sobriety"?
In fact, we have a nasty practice of patting ourselves on the back in sobriety for being creative and intelligent.
Think about it this way-- you stop drinking based on logical reasons. So your disease finds a different way to get you drinking again-- by stoking your ego, and by finding something positive and important that you won't be able to accomplish anymore without booze. The message: you must drink so that you can share your creativity with the world. It's your burden.
Cunning, baffling and powerful.
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,793
Originally Posted by Kantaki
Why do i have to convert in religion to enjoy help?
Point is staying clean and getting well, not God, itssimply a power greater than me which can be som many things.
utopist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by FrothyJay
God yes.
In fact, we have a nasty practice of patting ourselves on the back in sobriety for being creative and intelligent.
Think about it this way-- you stop drinking based on logical reasons. So your disease finds a different way to get you drinking again-- by stoking your ego, and by finding something positive and important that you won't be able to accomplish anymore without booze. The message: you must drink so that you can share your creativity with the world. It's your burden.
Cunning, baffling and powerful.
In fact, we have a nasty practice of patting ourselves on the back in sobriety for being creative and intelligent.
Think about it this way-- you stop drinking based on logical reasons. So your disease finds a different way to get you drinking again-- by stoking your ego, and by finding something positive and important that you won't be able to accomplish anymore without booze. The message: you must drink so that you can share your creativity with the world. It's your burden.
Cunning, baffling and powerful.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 56
Hi Kantaki,
I've felt befuddled and slow minded since I quit drinking, but I hear that it gets better, it's just part of the withdrawal. I hope so! Here's to us getting sharp again.
Also, the big book says we don't have to believe in a power greater than ourselves, we only have to be willing to believe. Honest, open-minded and willing will get us sober, then we can decide about spiritual stuff with clear minds.
I've felt befuddled and slow minded since I quit drinking, but I hear that it gets better, it's just part of the withdrawal. I hope so! Here's to us getting sharp again.
Also, the big book says we don't have to believe in a power greater than ourselves, we only have to be willing to believe. Honest, open-minded and willing will get us sober, then we can decide about spiritual stuff with clear minds.
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,793
Originally Posted by KarenElaine
but I hear that it gets better, it's just part of the withdrawal. I hope so!
it keeps getting better so long as we dont pick up one day at a time and we face our fears and get better one day at a time.
I and others here are living proof that recovery from drug and alcohol addiction is possible and having a fantastic life is possible
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 259
If you are an athlete, then think about the last time you stuggled to get to the end of an event, a race, or just training.
I dont do the spiritual thing, but , being a previous long distance cyclist , i analogise coming off the booze to training..
Keep training ...every day ...go out and do your 20km
For me , that is 20km of not drinking and ........Im getting fitter,, better at what I do.
Use the strength that is inside you , use the forum, talk to friends, call a help line, write an email to yourself and send it to yourself .. it is always a good read.
Congrats for getting on the forum .
L
I dont do the spiritual thing, but , being a previous long distance cyclist , i analogise coming off the booze to training..
Keep training ...every day ...go out and do your 20km
For me , that is 20km of not drinking and ........Im getting fitter,, better at what I do.
Use the strength that is inside you , use the forum, talk to friends, call a help line, write an email to yourself and send it to yourself .. it is always a good read.
Congrats for getting on the forum .
L
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