Snarf

I often see people speaking negatively about certain programs of recovery. One that comes to mind is AA. I have seen people try to prove that it's a cult, link it to specific religions, demonize the founders, and speak horribly about certain members.

The same is true for religion. People spend countless hours trying to argue and prove that God is not real, the Bible is errant, the New Testament contradicts the Old Testament, and believers and churchgoers are hypocrites and not who they claim to be.

My question is: Why? While these things may not be up your alley, it is a proven and verifiable fact that they have helped millions upon millions of people live better lives free from the trappings of their past actions and addictions. People have found in AA and the church something that helped them change their lives. If it doesn't work for you, cool, but why try to act like it helps no one?

Sure, sometimes you see the people at AA meetings who are loud or brash or who don't walk the walk. But do you also see the person sitting alone in the back of the room, praying to hear that 1 thing that may help them turn their life around?

I guess what I'm saying is that I know what works for me, but I won't try to put down anything that helps someone else. As long as it works for somebody, it's all good with me. I used to believe that AA and religion were hocus pocus; in the last year they've helped save my life. I know they will do the same for countless others, and I also know that some people will find help in other places. Whatever works, I'm all for it.

Carpediem1

I agree. I am new to this site but in the short time that I have spent on it I have seen several negative responses to someone that is just, either trying to share their story to get it off their chest or someone that would truly like help or advise. I would like to believe that this forum is here so that we can help one another.

Coolmummy

I was one of those AA bashers not too long ago - I just listened to the wrong people or heard about those people who didn't 'get' it or went a little 'odd' as it were. When it came down to it though, i was on my knees needing the help I couldn't find within myself and so I started going along. For me, it works, for others it doesn't - I guess the 'haters' are those who maybe haven't been helped by it, or have other strange reasons for bing so anti. Live and let Live is a good phrase!

Genjen

Both are working for me now....I really didn't want to go to AA this time around, but something changed my perspective, maybe God? Dunno...but both God and AA is working so far.

LaFemme

And I have had people tell me that my way is wrong and I am destined to fail because I am not in a program.

I see it a lot here actually and it makes me sad.

I try and be careful not to bash other people's ways.

Genjen

I've seen that on a couple recovery sites and in meetings...that kind of attitude bothers me a lot. What works for one, may not work for another and vice versa...so be it! If it works, don't fix it!

Kjell

Hi Snarf-

I'm an AA'er and a Catholic so I can relate to your post.

I dunno...I think there is some sort of resentment tied to these negative feelings and both sides seem to bring this on at times. Early on in my sobriety I've been guilty at times myself for "stirring the pot" and I've regretted it each time.

I feel like I can gauge the quality of my sobriety by my kindness and helpfulness to others here on SR and also in the real world.

Kjell~

GettingStronger2

And therein lies the problem. I am in AA, and it does work. It has saved my life. Thankfully, i started the program before joining this site. Had i been here and heard some of the AA bashing, I may never have gone to a meeting. I have no idea where i would be today, but I am sure i would either be drinking or on my way to an eventual relapse.

If you do not want to do AA, or any other program, if you do not like it, I can respect that. But it does bother me that others feel the need to tear it down, especially here, where others come for help in recovery. It could be preventing someone who can and will get help from AA from getting it. And that could be tragic.

GettingStronger2

And LaFemme, I have always appreciated a few things about you. One is that even though you do not do AA or any other program, you have never been negative about what others do. Quite the opposite, you have always been supportive.

A testament to your character.

JoeCree

I think that is the key to joining "any" community - you always block out people that provide negative or counter-intuitive help. I have found there are numerous people on here (liek LaFemme) who provide encouraging, rational, and supportive, thoughtfully written comments - these are the type of people that make SR worthwhile for me to visit on a daily basis.

I don't do AA either, but I would never consider knocking it's help or program for the many millions who rely on it for success. To each their own, and one thing I have learned, is that in this world it is nair impossible to find a group of people agree on everything - so I don't expect it nor provoke it.

humblestudent

AA is not the only program (or lack of program) that gets bashed here. I have seen people told that they are not a "real alcoholic", among other things...if they are getting better without AA.

I agree with your point - only saying that it's not AA that's always the target. Either way, it gets old.

Fandy

if someone told me that I was not a "real alcoholic" I would consider it a real flattering remark.

a look in the mirror last year said the exact opposite.

LaFemme

Well said! I think I was much more likely to attack AA when I was new and fragile in my sobriety. I know I had a number of posts deleted, even though I didn't think I had crossed the line...lol...Dee should remember that. It's why I am thankful to our excellent moderators who steer us in the right direction most of the time

The more secure we are in our own sobriety the less likely we are to attack other people's programs. When we attack other people's programs (or lack thereof) we do no service to ourselves or one another.

bluoval

When you say "program," I'm assuming you mean a 12-Step based program. These programs certainly do not have a monopoly on sobriety or recovery.

reggiewayne

Good question. Seems like humans struggle with this as early as we can walk. Remember the kid in school that would always say "It won't work out, it's stupid, etc...?" To me the adults that do what you are describing simply haven't grown into adulthood. The kids call them "haters" lol....

In recovery I learn to accept others as they are. I don't try and force my will and ideas on them. I also don't spend time worrying about what they think of my program or way of life. I have been posed the question by my best friend a few times, "AA is a cult, God is like believing in Santa Clause, etc..." I used to spend a lot of time and effort arguing my point. Today, I don't. I simply say, "You are entitled to your opinon" and move on. I don't need to defend my program.

My dad always said, "If you're explaining, you're losing".

Just my two cents...

humblestudent

I hear you - but in the context that I was referring to, it's used to separate someone as not having as serious a problem as a "real alcoholic", since they were able to use something other than (pick one) to recover. I think it's a demeaning comment in that context.

JoeCree

Reggie is another one of those posters I always enjoy reading/ Can't say I always agree with his views - but definitely respect what he has to say.

As for the above underlined - I always use the example of how it is impossible for people to agree - try going to a video store with 4 friends (and these are your friends), and try all agreeing on a film... rarely if ever will all 4 people be satisfied - and the person with the loudest voice tends to get their way. Apply said example to international relations - and you get why there is war.
as for SR, and disputes over AA??? there are too many atrocities in this world to assume that anybody's view on this subject is right. It would be both ignorant and naive to think we can influence others' with our views. People will seek help with those that are willing to provide - that is the best we can hope for.

bevin

I agree with a lot of the posts on this thread so far. I don't have a problem with any particular program or religion - if one thing or another works for a person and makes their life better I'm all for it.

The only time I have a problem with it is when they use their power for general evildoings - like telling someone they will fail if they don't follow 'X' program or go to hell if they don't worship 'X' God. Growing up, I encountered the latter quite a bit. Today, I choose to keep my views on spirituality completely private because that's what feels right to me.

Mark75

I think that whole "real alcoholic" thing is about the most misunderstood and misused concept on SR and is frequently at the heart of a lot of divisive type threads. And no one group, AA, non AA, anti AA is completely without some degree of responsibility in that regard.

That's all I am gonna say about that.

We are all on the same side. Plain and simple.

LaFemme

I'm not in any program other than my own, which I take very seriously and work hard at