LaFemme

I do love a good debate though

LosingmyMisery

I quit trying to convince everyone my way is the right way, the only way, quite awhile ago. This transformation took place some time in my sobriety. Who really cares as long as you are sober and can stay that way? Why would anyone be so anxious to argue the evils of my beliefs? I don't understand the reasoning. My way is working.

I worry about myself. Other peoples' opinions shouldn't matter as long as I'm on the right track. Yes, I come here to offer my experience/help in hopes that someone may find a solution to their misery of addiction.

I don't care if you believe in God or not. The important thing is to get and stay sober and live and think in a healthy manner. There are those who park outside of threads and leap in to offer their pearls of wisdom. We get it. We get that you believe or you don't and that is fine. However, it has gone as far as to question the intelligence, or lack there of, because of differing opinions. I find that offensive. A person is lacking in intelligence because they don't share the same point of view? I don't find this helpful in the least bit and it makes me question the stability and motives of someone who would behave in such a manner.

We are here for the same reasons and good ones at that. The world is big and not everyone is going to believe the same, ever. If we did, what would the outcome be? I'm left to wonder.

If what you are doing is working, stick with it. If it isn't, find something that does. I have no interest in debating opinions of what is wrong and what is right. Mainly, the same arguments will continue long after I leave this earth. I know what works for me. I know why it works and why I believe how I do. If someone tells me my way is wrong I turn and walk away. What does it matter? It doesn't. I'm sober today. To each their own...

stacylove

My 2 cents worth (I can't find a cent symbol on my comp? lol),

I am in NA, and I like NA, I've been in it for over a year. I love my sponsor and I have worked the steps, but I feel like it just isn't me.

Then whenever I say this or I relapse, some AA/NA ppl tell me that I am not working the steps correctly or I'm not in it 100%, this is wherein the problem lies. I need a better support system, it's always something I did wrong in the program, not where the program may have failed me.

I never get down on anyone or bash anyone that is in NA/AA, whatever works for you. However, the ppl that get me, are those that throw NA/AA in my face, it actually makes me not want to be in the program anymore. I have looked into other programs, and I believe that it depends on the individual. Some people learn in a different way (differentiated learning).

Why don't we just accept people and their programs no matter what they are? AND just let me or anyone else decide for themselves what type of recovery works for them.

Thank you, that was only worth 1 cent btw,

Stacy

refrigerator

Hello everyone. Good thread.

I'm the first to admit that I'm not religious in any way whatsoever. I have never said anything bad about AA as I know it's done wonderful things for tons of people. However, I do view it as a religious organization. I mean, every step is "God this" and "God that". You have to realize that to a non religious individual, that sounds down right silly. After all, I've made it 3 months sober with no god.

So maybe it's because others like me think AA as trying to convert them in order to make them sober, and as a recovering atheist...I sort of find that offensive.

Anyway, just my thought. Take them FWIW.

Dee74

In the interests of fairness...

What is AA?

Read the first post in the thread again.

This really should not be a thread about why you like or don't like AA or those guys who tear down AA down, guys.

We have enough of those...in fact, it's why Snarf started this thread...
D

CarolD

Why do people put down things that help others?

FIE .....
Fear ......Ignorance...Ego puffing

michelle01

This is something I usually stay out of (not in AA myself and I used to be negative about it, but each to their own and if it keeps people on the road to recovery, all for the better). It's not that I'm unwilling to go to AA because of personal beliefs, I'll admit I find it difficult to fathom my recovery without a spiritual component in it. But there are different forms of spirituality. Many people who have had some negative experiences of religion or suffered abuse in a religious setting in the past are uncomfortable with the idea of a 'supreme deity'. I've come to recognize that and try to be sensitive to it.

I do believe in giving people a wide range of options but one must always be aware that no method is probably going to be absolutely fitting, comfortable or perfect. In fact, if you don't ever feel challenged at some point by your recovery method, I'd question if it is really producing the internal changes required to sustain recovery. No need to push oneself beyond one's limits or be a glutton for punishment, but sometimes I think it is healthy to step a bit outside our own comfort zones. To listen to other sides of opinions, even if we may not instinctively agree.

Some time ago, I decided my main purpose in participating in a support site was to maintain and support recovery... not to quibble over various methods, I don't feel it is often very positive or constructive.

LillieB

Snarf..you ask a very good question. Why? Why spend the time being critical of something that nets positive results for some people. The answer is simple because for others the organizations of which you speak can do incredible damage. It is obvious that I am not a fan of aa or religion for that matter. I have seen, as we all have, the damage that religion has perpetrated on our society since it's inception. god is a man made concept which for many generations of humans has meant persecution based on handed down myth. All we need to do is to examine Sept. 11, 2001 to know the atrocities that people are capable of committing in the name of god. It is my opinion that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and there just is no evidence for the belief in a supernatural deity, especially one which many aaers claim to exist. A deity that cares about what you do or do not drink and that has a set of "steps" to garner it's favor. To speak up and out against this kind of thinking is obligatory for some. I think you asked a very important question and got some very interesting answers.

Mark75

LillieB

Mark You might not want to do that...smacking yourself in the head can cause brain damage.

Anna

Once again, people, let's focus on the OP's original topic.

AmericanGirl

I think Snarf raises an interesting point, but I think it's important to consider what we mean by criticism when we talk about this.

My job is (in part) to help young people develop critical thinking abilities. I consider it extremely important that they question, evaluate, and challenge ideas. I think it's important for the health of society that individuals do this.

There is a difference between that type of critical thinking and the more colloquial use of the word "criticize," to bash something without thought. Do I think it's important to think critically--personally--about recovery? Absolutely. But to bash certain types of recovery without thought? No, that's not helpful.

I think it's good to have an exchange about these ideas, but only in a respectful environment in which people are using their minds more than their emotions. SR is often that type of place, and at its best that way imo

Zencat

Why the problems? I think because AA has two principals that are found in a few of the largest religious body's on the face of the earth. That would be "God" and "prayer". Even between different religions, there is major disagreement on how to worship or connect to God. So the God issue is inherently fraught with strong emotions, both good and bad. Add the disagreements between those of different faiths and those of faith and no faith, ones has quite a heated mix going on.


Because AA uses one spiritual principle that includes the use of God in a non-religious way, religious principles do seem to get invoked with the mere mention of God. Then include trying to understand the difference between spiritual and non-spiritual, God and not God, faith and no faith...well that just reflects what is going on in the larger religious world around.

The problems seems to include, ignorance, lack of tolerance and nonacceptance of allowing people to believe what they want without being hassled because of it.

LillieB

Americangirl, I agree with your post. I tend to be a bit blunt in my delivery and it can be mistaken for bashing. I do hope that one can see past the delivery and delve into the concept.

bluoval

LillieB

Zencat, I so enjoy your posts..always evenhanded. I am curious as to your belief that aa uses god in a non religious way.

Mark75

Lillie...

What is your OWN experience with AA. Have you read the big book? Especially, the chapter "To the Agnostics"? I haven't seen in any of your posts, and perhaps I've missed it... Are you a recovering, or... not, alcoholic, addict... ? It's not the topic of this thread, I know, but maybe you could point (link) us to a post where you've introduced yourself or maybe start a thread...

This is a community of recovered(ing) alcoholics and addicts who try, with varying degrees of success, but mostly with good intentions, anyway, who try to recover and to help others recover. All are welcome. How can we help you?

least

LillieB

I'm sorry something I said disturbed you Mark. I do believe I was answering a question posed at the beginning of this tread. "Why do people put down things that help others?" I do believe I have also answered some of your other queries randomly in my other posts. I do appreciate your need to qualify someone into the "club" sort of speak. I have been asked, respectfully of course, to stay out of the 12 step forum if my opinion is contrary the the belief system held within it's "walls". Certainly out here in newcomers where there is a vast array of differences in opinion my line of thinking should not cause such turmoil. A question was posed, I simply replied, by no means did I mean to cause you any discomfort.

Supercrew

I like the quote Least, but is it really a "battle" to be nice to everyone you meet? Obviously for some it does take some work, but once we realize the effort is worth the satisfaction I think it would be hard to consider it a battle.