keithj

I read your post, and understood the distinction between what the book says and what is heard in the rooms of AA. However, people who continue to perpetuate this idea are responsible for it becoming the dominant message in AA. That's why you hear it dozens of times in the rooms, because people keep saying it. People who do not understand the program of AA.

I don't know what your book says, but mine speaks over and over about the futility of trying to stay away from the first drink based on consequences and the ability to 'think it through'. It's an absolutely contradictory concept. Nothing you quoted supports the idea of being able to 'play the tape through' or think through the first drink. Instead, it supports the AA idea that I will be unable at times to successfully do so.

I'd welcome it, dgillz, if you can show me where in the BB it claims the real alcoholic can effectively think through the first drink. Maybe I've had it wrong all these years.

Taking5

I never claimed the book said that. And I'll say it again, I agree with the rest of your post 100%

littlefish

Well, there is a saying I heard here on SR that I will repeat: it's not how much you drink, it's what happens to you when you drink.
My husband can drink himself silly, but he doesn't wake up the next day with the mental obsession regarding his next drink. He doesn't have cravings to drink, at inappropriate times and places.
If I take a drink, there will be many more, and I will be made captive by the mental obsession regarding my next drink. It will take over my mind and my life.

reggiewayne

Welcome. This site isn't an "anti-alcohol" site. It's a recovery site for people that have a desire to STOP drinking. In other words, we don't teach you how to moderate, we discuss ways to stop the madness of alcoholism.

I am very against unwarranted guilt - it's just not healthy. If you are able to drink and not have a problem with it, then by all means do and don't feel bad about it. God knows I would if I could. If I drank I would feel a tremendous amount of "warranted" guilt. Quitting for me is the hardest / most rewarding thing I've ever done. For me, there is no going back....

If you decide you want to stop and want help doing it, we'll be here!

Best of luck to you!

Anna

This thread is not a discussion about what AA says or doesn't say.

It's about offering advice to the OP, so let's get back on track.

ANEWAUGUST

My suggestion is that you look back at your drinking history, truly and honestly look back and see if alcohol has been something that has worked well for you in your life.

I would also suggest a book that was suggested to me by Carol D. here, "Under the Influence.

Once I educated myself about alcoholism, and determined that I truly was an alcoholic, I made the decision to seek recovery, and jump off the moderation merry go round.

Best of luck to you on your journey.

Got2Stop

Wow, this thread really turned into something that I didn't expect. There are a lot of great responses as well as a few contradictory ones.

I acknowledge and accept the fact that I'm an alcoholic if for no other reason than the sheer amount of alcohol I can drink alone, by myself, and the impact that it has on everything (and everyone) around me. I'm not in denial here folks. I did see that one of you posted a statistic about one drink per night being "acceptable" but honestly, that's WAY more than I drink. Whether this statement is incorrect or not, my alcoholism is defined by the quantity of alcohol that I do drink on a night alone and the destructive behavior/consequences that result from it.

Is having 4 drinks in 4 hours last night "alcoholism"? Well no, obviously not, especially considering that I drank less than everyone at the party. I'm glad that I can moderate my "social drinking" but still acknowledge the fact that I have a very serious problem when it comes to drinking by myself at home on a Friday and/or Saturday night. Downing an entire 750ml bottle and engaging in inappropriate behavior is not normal or acceptable, period. This is a problem that started about 9 months ago but didn't become fully destructive until the past 6 months.

That's why I'm here. To Kjell, who said my chosen screen name with what I'm trying to accomplish is "insane": sorry you feel that way but please take a good look in the mirror and read my other posts before you have the audacity to make that kind of statement. You're here too so that's hypocrisy at its finest. I'm a "new" alcoholic who has never had this problem before but now that I do, I'm simply seeking information and advice. The more knowledgeable I am about my problem and alcoholism in general, the better off I will be to deal with it and conquer it. Choosing this screen name doesn't mean that I'm a fully recovered alcoholic in less than two days; it is an affirmation of my desire to NOT drink myself into the destructive behaviors that most of us on here probably experience.

Thanks for all of the useful replies. I appreciate it. One final thing Kjell: the correct usage of that phrase is "To thine ownself be true" not "To they ownself be true".

Dee74

Hi Got2Stop

I think it's good to remember that everyone who replied here took time out to share their experience to try to help.

You may not agree with all the conclusions but I think you've got some great advice here

D

Got2Stop

There are a lot of posts in this thead but I'll go ahead and address this one since it was the most recent and serves a very valuable purpose.

ANEWAUGUST: the irony of your statement is that for most of my life, particularly in college where drinking should be rampant (especially at a school like the University of Arizona and being in one of its top fraternities) I didn't drink. I used to joke with my friends when we went to bars that I "Don't want to drink because it interferes with my game" (with women). I was also a bodybuilder and multi-sport athlete.

If any of you take a moment to read my first thread on here, particularly the second post in it, you'll have a better understanding of where I'm coming from. I am very much ashamed and embarassed that something so trivial in the grand scheme of my life caused me to make the poor decision to dive into a bottle of alcohol (this is accountability, I'm blaming nobody but myself for the poor decision). Back to ANEWAUGUST: even my example about college reflects, in some capacity, that alcohol doesn't work well for me -- or, at least, that it is something I don't need. My recent problem is that I allowed it to turn into something that I both need and want.

That is an addiction, regardless of the substance. I minored in psychology and fully recognize as well as acknowledge the problem. My 4 drinks in 4 hours last night, by itself, is nothing remarkable. I'm not trying to justify drinking by presenting that info, ie "Hey, I can have 4 drinks every night because it had no effect on me!" That's what the individual who had the audacity to call me "insane" is insinuating.

Where I'm coming from is, throughout life, sure there have been times where I drank at social functions (NCAA Championship???) but it was never a problem, just like the millions of Americans and everybody in my party last night who drank more than I did for an event like that. For me, this is all about establishing a set of rules and guidelines for myself so that I don't revert back to destructive drunkenness. If that requires total abstinence: fine, so be it, and that answers my question. That's all this thread was ever about. I'm trying to learn as much about this problem as I can and if it means asking questions that someone thinks are "insane" that's fine.

The only stupid/insane question is the question that never gets asked. I'm working on myself and trying to learn more about this problem. Thanks again everybody and I hope you're having a good week.

ANEWAUGUST

Got2stop..

I can look back, and realize that my body has never processed alcohol like "normal" people. I am an alcoholic, and now realize my body chemistry is different. It took me YEARS to finally see that for what it truly is.

When my drinking crossed the line into alcoholism, need and want were removed from my equation. I truly couldn't say where one drink one day might lead..

My response was trying to share what of my experience may help you with the questions you posed.

I truly risked me life, my marriage and my gift of being a mother for alcohol one too many times. I only hope that if someone else may benefit from sharing.

I guess I am confused if you are seeking answers to learn to moderate your drinking, or to seek recovery.

Dee74

I'm definitely an alcoholic - I spent 7 years drinking all day everyday - but there were lots of times in my 20 years of drinking I drank and nothing bad happened.

That was in fact the worst thing that could happen to me because I would use the memory of those occasions to negate the times when bad things did happen - and that was a ridiculously bigger pile.

To me, the 'good nights' are the hooks that keep us believing we can turn this around, despite the ever mounting evidence to the contrary.

D

Got2Stop

Your post was very helpful, as were many others, so please know that it's appreciated. I addressed your post because it was the most recent one I read at the time I logged in here. I fully empathize and sympathize with your plight and hope that you were able to salvage your relationship with your husband and kids. I, too, have destroyed plenty of relationships due to this problem and am very blessed and thankful to God for allowing me to recognize it sooner rather than having it be something that I neglected for years of my life. It's awful. The things I said and did to certain people can never be taken back, and it hurts because they were good people who didn't deserve that kind of behavior. That is the entire reason I want to stop.

Responding to your final statement: it looks like we might have been posting stuff at about the same time so I don't know if you saw or had the opportunity to read my previous two posts, but even with all of that aside, it's both. I want recovery due to the destructive behaviors that accompany my binge drinking but am also trying to gain a better understanding of alcoholism and all of its components. Is it acceptable to drink in moderation at certain social events? I can't answer that which is why I posted this thread. As stated in one of my prior posts, if complete abstinence is necessary, then that is the route I'm willing to take to overcome the problem.

Thanks again to everybody. I'd address each of you individually if I could, but that's hard to do in posts on the internet so I at least clicked the "Thanks" button. I'll be around and I'm greatful for a community like this one to help me better understand my problem as well as provide valuable resources and information to help me overcome it.

ANEWAUGUST

Got2stop...

Thankfully, I am still married, and my sober life today is wonderful.But, it has taken some work to get there...and I am sober, one day at a time.

If you are an alcoholic, then abstaining is the only answer. If you aren't moderation may be possible.

Wether or not you are an alcoholic is a question only you can answer. I believe at the top of the alcoholism forum are some questions you can ask yourself that may help.

As this is a recovery forum, moderation isn't addressed here. However you can google some other sites that may help you with moderation if that is the route you choose to take.

Best of luck on your journey..
Wether you are aren't an alcoholic is only something you can answer.

Hollyanne

Also heard in AA.

"All you need for an AA meeting is a coffeepot and a resentment"

" If you are in control, you are not enjoying drink and if you are enjoying it, you are not in control"

"None of the bartenders are ringing up and checking on me"

"I was never invited back, until I came to AA"

"I was yella from alkihol, and vomiting up blood!"

"I wasn't in trouble every time I got drunk, but I was sure drunk every time I got in trouble."

" I haven't been arrested since I gave up drink."

" I never planned on being an alcoholic when I grew up."

" There is no elevator, you have to take the steps." (real corny)

Sorry Keith, I just had to crack you up with those, I am too tired to think of any more!!!!


It is funny though about the "play the tape thing", because I have always said, that just didn't work for me. I always felt I knew the consequences all the way through and it just wasn't scary enough!!!! I still wanted that darn drink!!!!!
I did find it helpful though, to "shut down" the thoughts of drinking. As in, i am not going to HELP this evil "cunning, baffling and powerful" thing to destroy me by helping plan my next bender.

And of course, to Got2stop, I didn't drink in public since 2006.
But I was whaling back the drink to a state of oblivion in private. I could be swimming in it, in public and not take a sip, but when I got home, ah yea, Glug, glug, glug.

Don't ask me what the hey that was all about!

Danae

Hi Got2Stop,

Welcome and I hope you keep posting on SR. I've found the site to be very helpful in the last few months as I worked through some of the same questions you are asking.

I found that reading other people's posts, including the stickies up above and some books like "Under the Influence" to be an education and a half. I was surprised by what I didn't know about alcoholism. I was also surprised by how similar in many ways other people's experiences were to mine.

I didn't drink that much by anyone's standards and could often control it in social situations. Most people I know didn't notice I had a problem. But it is progressive, and it was getting worse for me. I didn't like myself and felt I was trapped in an endlessly repeating cycle.

The last 4+ months since I stopped drinking have been MUCH easier and more productive! Moderation was not working for me---it took too much effort and I was always feeling deprived. This way I've also had to look at myself more closely and (ok, sounds corny) grow as a person rather than self-medicate away bad feelings.

People on the site may be touchy about some concepts---but it is usually because they care. Hope you read some more and come to your own conclusions. SR can be a supportive community if you decide you want to stop drinking.

Eddiebuckle

If you can control your drinking 100% of the time, you are not an alcoholic. In my experience, 750ml is not controlled drinking. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or how they may label you. If you are an alcoholic, then your drinking will continue to progress. I had a "high tolerance" too - but it kept getting higher, and gradually it wasn't something that I chose to do, it was something I had to do. Never lost a job (not that I shouldn't have, I just didn't), never got a DUI (ditto), etc. But torwards the end I couldn't not drink. I had to have something to drink within hours of waking or I would noticably shake. It was embarrassing as hell waiting in line at the liquor store, I would always pay in cash because I couldn't sign the slip without looking like I was having a damn stroke.

So, if you doubt that you are an alcoholic, try quitting 100% for an extended period of time - say 3 months. If you can do that (regardless of the social situation), maybe you're not an alcholic. But if you are, and you continue to drink, life is going to get complicated sooner or later.

Good luck,
Edd

EmeraldRose

Ok...I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you want, expect or how you are actually classifying yourself.
If you are drinking alone, causing destructive behavior, downing 750ml, and on this site you might be an alcoholic (done in my best Jeff Foxworthy).
You can't stop one spoke on a wheel. The whole wheel has to stop.
You can't recover and drink socially. Ok, I can't. And probably 99.9% of the rest of us.
If this alcohol/social drinker thang is a problem for you then challenge yourself. You seem like an intelligent person...you know yourself best...try to stop binging on the weekends. BUT continue to drink with friends.
I've stopped drinking for up to a year or more. I don't remember how long because I always started again. And why? Because I thought I could just go to dinner and have a few beers. But then we started going to dinner more often then I started buying booze again...so the vicious cycle would start.
I binged straight whiskey for years. I lost control and it had an effect on my life. When you realize alcohol is such an issue and you are seriously concerned about how you drink, how much you drink, what I can drink...yeah, its time to seriously think about just stopping the train.

FrothyJay

Did not see Keith's post. I'll take this one back.

Got2Stop

Hi. Once again, I take all of these posts constructively.

Emerald Rose: you make an excellent point. That's why I'm here. Even in my first thread I acknowleged that I'm not sure what "form" of alcoholic that I am but also stated that "it doesn't really matter". An alcoholic is an alcoholic, whether I'm a weekend warrior or not is irrelevant: I look at the behavior and consequences that my alcoholism (at this stage in my life) induces.

It does suck. Definitely. I've burned more bridges than I care to count and don't want to be this way forever. Perhaps this is beneficial to those of you out there who are merely reading but not acting. Trust me that you shouldn't feel bashful about sharing your problem and taking care of it. You are stronger for admitting it and acting upon it than attempting to sweep it under the rug.

The greatest thing to come out of this is that my best friends and family fully respect my acknowledgement of the problem and fully support any and all steps that I take to address it. For me, that was a huge relief; I feel blessed that my best friends in life respect me even more through this dark time and am greatful to have them. However, I want to be better so that I don't subject future friends, loved ones, spouses, girlfriends, etc to this current problem. I have a long way to go and fully acknowledge that but I'm greatful for the opportunity to discuss it amongst all of you.

Thank you, truly. Good or bad, all responses are welcomed by me and will be considered. All I want is to be a better man and the man that I used to be. Right now, I'm not that person but I WILL get there. I just have to find some balance and set some parameters as well as guidelines.

God Bless all of you in all of your recovery plights, regardless of the circumstances. Someday I hope to be the inspirational speaker that I once was and help all of you the way that I have helped thousands of others. Right now is not that time though. BUT, please feel free to message me and otherwise because I have literally helped hundreds of families and am not hesitant or reluctant to share that same info with all of you here.

All of us have struggled with alcohol at one point or another. Some of you are recovered, some of you are still finding your way, and some of you are kinda like me in attempting to recognize and address the problem to the best of your abilities. For now, all I can do is continue to seek as much knowledge as possible. Thanks again, to everybody.