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Slow down, you're getting better to fast....

Old 03-04-2011, 07:05 PM
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Slow down, you're getting better to fast....

says the angry old man at my 8pm meeting tonight. "You only have 92 days and you're on step 8"!!! "That's way to fast, I was two years into the program before I started working the steps"!!!

I was asked to pick a topic tonight since I was celebrating a sobriety birthday. I chose step 8 because that is where I, with my sponsor's help, am at. Many people in the room had some wonderful things to say, but some (not just the angry old man) thought I might be going at this a bit too fast.

It seems to me that many of the first AA'ers did these steps in a day, or week. I've never read anywhere in the big book about a timeline. The only thing I have read is, "there is a solution, rarely have we seen a person fail who has throughouly followed our path". I don't know why people try and discourage "new" people from following their path. It has to be ego. That whole, "this is my thing, not yours"...

If I am to believe in AA (which I do) then I am told the solution is in finding a higher power and working the steps. Clearing the wreckage of our past. Understanding how all of the character defects keep me stuck in old patterns of behavior that block me from the power that can make me better. Making right past wrongs with other people through making amends. Continuing to take personal inventory and when wrong promptly admitting it.

I just don't see what good waiting does. I do understand one must not just give these steps "lip service". I get why that may be not in a person's best interest. However if a person is working with sponsor, reading the BB, going to meetings, working with others (this site), and trying his best to get into / maintain recovery, shouldn't that person get busy with the actual program (the steps)????????

I hope I don't come off angry, because I am not. I just think a "newcomer" working the steps is threatening to some members of AA. They don't think I should be working the steps so early, because THEY didn't. It's kind of like when I was drinking and I would hear of one of my buddies quitting. I didn't like that because it shined a mirror back at me. I was forced to look at my own drinking. "If he thinks he has a problem, and I drink more than him, then he must think I have a problem". Insert crush to ego, then fear, then a need for a solution, insert a bathtub full of whsikey and on and on and on.

I guess this was just a small rant. I'm not upset, I'm not thinking of drinking, I am very grateful to have both of those things happening at the same time after a night like tonight. Recovery is awesome! I wish everyone the best!!!!
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:04 PM
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Congrats on all your process!

I think its awesome you have made so much of it. I'm not in AA but if I did decide to do it I would be all or nothing dive right into the steps with gusto (isn't that what its all about)...sounds like that is what you have done and that guy is just an angry old dude

Way to go on 92 days also!
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:22 PM
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Reggie,

You are 100% correct IMHO. In the book "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers", which is the story of Dr Bob and covers early AA history in the Akron/Cleveland area, it was revealed that many of the early members did the steps in "days or weeks, not months or years". They did this after the typical 3 to 5 day detox - as soon as they were healthy enough to function.

Dr Bob himself performed 9th step amends (before the step was officially written) on the same day he had his last drink. If I faced this situation, I would buy this book for the old timer and give it to him, with the relevelant passages bookmarked. But that's me.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:32 PM
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I am proud to see a newer member of AA with a good grasp of the program. From what I understand from the first 164 pages is that the Spiritual awakening is the result of working the Steps. Finding and maintaining sobriety is done through the Steps. It is because of the Steps and the program of AA that I am able to stay sober and work with other alcoholics.

My first sponsor tried to slow me down from working the Steps. I had read the book and decided if I was to find sobriety and stay sober I needed to follow the Big Book to do that. My understanding of what I read and re-read is that I needed to do the Steps, most of which are to be immediately followed by the next Step. For example it states right in the Big Book that immediately following Step 3 we go right into mapping out our 4th Step. What is the point in making a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God if we don't put action behind that decision by moving into the next Step? I actually wound up doing the Steps on my own in early sobriety since my sponsor did not want me to work on more than 1 a month. I did do my 5th Step with a woman with a substantial amount of sobriety who also believes that working through the Steps so we can apply them daily to our lives is one of the keys to sobriety. Needless to say that original sponsor and I did not last long but I stayed sober and still apply the Steps daily in my life to all aspects of it. I encourage everyone to work through the Steps to get a strong foundation of sobriety. Without the foundation of doing those Steps in early sobriety I would never have been able to stay sober. The Steps are what relieved me of my obsession to drink and the application of those Steps in my life today are what help keep that obsession at bay.

I do encourage you to continue to work the Steps like you have and not to be discouraged by those that for whatever reason did not work them like you are. Everyone has an opinion and not all people in AA have read the Big Book, there are people who rely soley on sponsors or the fellowship of AA to stay sober; personally I take what is said by those people with a grain of salt. I know that working the Steps in early sobriety is what worked for me and worked for the founding fathers of AA. I am still sober 10 years later and still utilize the Steps daily in my life. They are a big key to my sobriety.

Thanks for reminding me of the importance of the Steps in my life and for being an inspiration to others. Keep up the good work and don't let others discourage you.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:56 PM
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You got it right RW, ego, and self-image. Bad to get your self-image through other peoples eyes.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:31 AM
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that angry old man is someone that you don't want to emulate!!!!

I finished the initial step work within 3 months including all amends...sounds to me like you are well on track and have an excellent sponsor says the happy and sober middle aged guy:-)
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:37 AM
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This is a tricky one for me. I would love to think that you can walk the walk as quickly as possible. Personally I am a slow learner when it comes to letting go of old ways, so I am taking my time with steps one and two at the moment. I will have to creep through this. BTW I hope you do fly along with the steps, but redo them all the time when u have them done. Gud luck
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:38 AM
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The only people who want to slow you down are people who don't understand the urgency involved. Or people who don't know how to show you what to do.

The directions for the steps start on page 30 and end on 103. They are filled with words like "next" and "at once" and "launched." Nowhere do you see, "We followed Step 3 with a 2 month period of reflection and coffee making."

Once we start Step 4, most of the information for our subsequent steps comes from the writing we're doing. Our list in Step 8 can come mostly from our Fourth Step (but not entirely).

I hope you have a sponsor who is showing you this...
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by eddie73 View Post
but redo them all the time when u have them done. Gud luck
It does not say that we need to re-do the steps. Certainly not all the time. A thorough fourth step can be the last fourth step you do. Steps 10-11 are the tools we use for daily inventory and amends, and enhancing our spiritual life. I was brought into the practice of Step 10 and 11 ("we began to follow this way of living as we cleaned up the past") while in Step 4.
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Old 03-05-2011, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by reggiewayne View Post
I just think a "newcomer" working the steps is threatening to some members of AA.
Reggie, I think you are right on track, and I'd bet you are correct in why it threatens somebody else. Lots of people who keep relapsing will tell you it's OK to relapse. Lots of people who never made all their amends will tell you it's OK to skip those hard ones. Just wait until you start talking about an honest to God spiritual awakening. People will get their backs up because it threatens their high opinion of themselves. Some will even try to talk you out of a sudden and spectacular upheaval of your ideas, emotions, and guiding motives.

You are taking the exact actions that the authors of the BB took, and you are having the exact same 'rocket-ride' experience. Don't let anybody stop you, and prepare to live a life beyond your dreams.
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Old 03-05-2011, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by FrothyJay View Post
It does not say that we need to re-do the steps. Certainly not all the time. A thorough fourth step can be the last fourth step you do. Steps 10-11 are the tools we use for daily inventory and amends, and enhancing our spiritual life. I was brought into the practice of Step 10 and 11 ("we began to follow this way of living as we cleaned up the past") while in Step 4.

Well let us know how you get on once you finish the steps. Hope you do well
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by eddie73 View Post
Well let us know how you get on once you finish the steps. Hope you do well
I've completed steps 4-9. I have 2 outstanding amends. I am living in steps 10-12 to the best of my ability.

I no longer want to drink, and have been restored to sanity.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:37 AM
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I have personally done more than one 4th step, but I and my sponsor felt it was necessary for me. And I will say that, had I been truly living in the 10th-12th steps, I would not have found it necessary (not that I really liked that answer at the time!) because I would have continued to clear things up as they occured/I did them, instead of hanging onto them long enough to get (yet another) resentment.

That being said, I have to say that getting HONESTLY and THOROUGHLY through the steps as quickly as possible, not for speed's sake or to set any records, but to start on a healthy and happy journey through the rest of your life, is a really, really good idea - and highly recommended in the Big Book, by those guys who really knew, from desperation and absolutely no one else to teach them. Thanks, Frothy, for your intelligent and humorous reminder that, "Nowhere do you see, "We followed Step 3 with a 2 month period of reflection and coffee making."
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by nandm View Post
From what I understand from the first 164 pages is that the Spiritual awakening is the result of working the Steps.
Ok, I have a question...???...does anyone ever have a spiritual awakening thru other aspects of their lives? Before you started AA? Sometime in your life where an awakening was necessary to process your life?
Can you go into the steps already awakened? Or is that a 'different' type of an awakening?
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:03 AM
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Reggie, I'm glad you're doing well with your recovery.

I definitely had a spiritual awakening in very early recovery and I was not involved in AA. I really don't think I would have been able to continue recovering if I had not connected with my spiritual self.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:49 AM
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I did my steps the 1st time real quick- my sponsor was a right out of the book do them in a week type- which is fine btw- but my 2nd time through proved to be much more fruitful because I remembered so much more as far as the 4th step goes. I am a fan of the first 164 pages but I also like to add the 12x12, because it reflects what they learned from practicing the way of life for more than a few years. When I went through with the 12x12 I got so much more from the program. I'd say it's good to go fast, but don't get ahead of yourself thinking you have to be "good" at the program etc. I started out thinking I was going to do it real fast and get it right away and be a rock star at AA. :P Then I drank. And I had absolutely no plans to 5 mins before that drink.
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by EmeraldRose View Post
Ok, I have a question...???...does anyone ever have a spiritual awakening thru other aspects of their lives? Before you started AA? Sometime in your life where an awakening was necessary to process your life?
Can you go into the steps already awakened? Or is that a 'different' type of an awakening?
Good question.

My answer is no I never had a spiritual awakening prior to my experiences in AA. The definition of the spiritual awakening/experience according to the Big Book of AA is: "the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism" this experience "manifested itself among us in many different forms." "With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspecting inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves. Most think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it 'God-consciousness'"

When I look at that definition I have to say no I never had a spiritual awakening/experience prior to working the Steps of AA. I was raised and spent many years in religion but still was not able to stop drinking on religion alone. That power came from working the Steps which led to the Spiritual awakening.

I do hope that answers your question and that I have not derailed this thread by answering it.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:41 PM
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Emerald rose...by nandm's definition I have not had a spiritual awakening...but by my definition I have...since I'm not in AA that works for me. For me, I felt pretty awake spiritually even when I was drinking...I've pretty much always had a relationship with God...I think we are much closer these days though
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by EmeraldRose View Post
Ok, I have a question...???...does anyone ever have a spiritual awakening thru other aspects of their lives? Before you started AA? Sometime in your life where an awakening was necessary to process your life?
Can you go into the steps already awakened? Or is that a 'different' type of an awakening?
IMO you have to be very careful here if you are an alcoholic...we are absolute experts at rationalization and manipulation of self...

A spiritual awakening is effectively a drastic personality change that means we see life in a different way, like looking through a new set of eyes...it is not just abstinance with a change of externals...it is something that happens to you...

The good news is that a spiritual awakening can be of the educational variety which means that we can reach out and, if we are ready, be open and willing to change...

Some people have had spiritual awakenings overnight, usually they turn out to be saints or spiritual names we would have heard...for the rest of us mere mortals we need guidance and instruction in the early days...this is why the PROGRAM (12 steps) of AA works for those that work it, it's sole purpose is to effect a spiritual awakening!

The problem that alcoholics like me have is that there is no reference point...if one can identify a time in their lives where everything was great and they were behaving in a sane, mature, responsible manner then there is something to get back to...if however you are like me and there was never such a time then help will be required and we are the last people that, initially, should be judging whether or not we have had our own spiritual awakening as, like i said, we could convince ourselves that black was white if it suited us...

The best judge of your spiritual awakening will be other people, they will look at you different...be careful about platitudes like "you have changed so much" and "wow you are a different person" because other people might not understand spirituality and will still be judging you on externals...you will notice people look at you with a cocked look and a look of curiosity and with a little time you will catch yourself naturally saying and doing things you are surprised at in yourself...

The most important step towards a spiritual awakening, for me, was to finally see that if i had a choice of me running my life or the village idiot i would have chosen the village idiot. After that surrendering is pretty easy to do...first 3 steps of AA...I can't, He can, I'll let him...

Please remember when i reference AA i do so because it's real sole purpose is to effect a spiritual awakening...if an alcoholic has a spiritual awakening by another route then that is fantastic and does happen...but for most of us we need help to see the woods from the trees...

That was a nice post to make as i didn't have a clue about any of this a year ago lol was going through it not looking back seeing it:-)
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:35 PM
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Reggie, I remember thinking you were sounding like you were expecting too much of yourself (getting ahead of yourself) with so little time behind you. That was probably close to 3 months ago.

Since then, I have thought maybe I was no one to talk.

Then I read a story last night about a lady telling a 20-something it must have been nice to have such a high bottom since he hadn't had enough time to become a real alcoholic yet. That confirmed for me I don't need to be so assertive and "certain" about what other people should be doing and when. Maybe I have an idea, maybe I don't.

What you're describing is just one sampling of the kind of thing I know I don't want to subject myself to. I have fairly good memories of the meetings I went to 10 years ago, but maybe not good enough, because I don't plan on attending AA soon. It's all I can do to contend with the bickering and Socratic back-and-forth that goes on here, let alone having people make me feel like an outcast in person. I guess I don't take direction very well. I stopped drinking through my own actions, so I am not going to take lecturing on what I have been doing wrong. I seek out the information I am interested in absorbing into my own work on myself, and that can include someone who uses AA too. (It has included, in fact.)

But that is me. I would be happy with you continuing on with the group. If you can discard the things that bother you and make use of the things that work for you, that would be great. I think you're capable of a lot of honesty, and that counts for me. Vent if you like. I just did!

Good luck as you keep going.
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