reggiewayne

Hi all. Today was a great day! I hope everyone else had a great day as well. I wanted to get some insight on the AVRT method. I feel kind of guilty for even asking because I am in AA and it's done wonders, but I'd love to hear how you guys use this (in your own words). I've read up on it and I think I understand the concept of your beast brain vs. your cognitive brain, but just talking like that gives me a headache lol...

I'd like to know how you use it, what you say to yourself, etc... Thanks in advance. Have a wonderful Monday all!!!!

Dee74

I know we have a few members familiar with AVRT - hope you'll hear from them presently Reggie

D

northland

I've found avrt to be the most beneficial recovery technique for me, so far. Before, I always viewed myself as one. There was one me, any thoughts that I had, whether they supported drinking, or sober living, were just who I was. Avrt changes that mode of thinking. Before, when I would get the voice in my head that would convince me to go drinking, I assumed it was just a part of who I was as a human being. Now, any thoughts that support past, present or future drinking, are automatically labeled as not mine, just a by product of a part of my brain trying to get its fix. Before, I couldn't get away from those thoughts, because I assumed I was the one who wanted to go drinking, and I was the one who produced those thoughts. Once you understand how addiction works, you realize that those aren't your desires, that as a rational conscious human being, you don't want to drink. The only part of you that wants to drink is this primitive animal part of your brain that doesn't care about your dreams and goals, or your feelings. All it cares about is getting its fix. Once you understand that, avrt simply tells you to recognize cravings for what they are. It's amazing, once you begin to stay mindful of your sober voice vs your addictive voice, you can really get a grasp on things. "You'd be surprised how much of your thinking is fueled by your addictive voice"

Lenina

Very well said, northland. It's a technique that's helped me so much. Recognizing the Addictive Voice also helped me see how often I invented excuses for drinking.

Love,

Lenina

Benowhere

Definitely, AVRT cut through all the nonsense that I could not handle as far as 'recovery' goes. AVRT alongside Allen Carr books, along with it being the right time of my life enabled me to quit smoking, drinking and drugs at the same time.

AVRT is VERY different to AA. It is very aggressive against addiction. You make a Big Plan and you are recovered. You stop counting time, which was always a big ego trip in meetings anyway, and your recovery is your business entirely.

I found a couple of weeks ago experiencing my Beast having a craving for drugs. 'I' was able to notice it, separate it from me, and walk away no problem. The feeling of exhilaration at being in control of the craving was really liberating.

Fundamentally, AVRT deals directly with addiction, and says that life will take over afterwards and that there is nothing wrong with you that requires lifetime membership of a religious organisation.

The whole system is very simple but no different to how the vast majority of people quit their addictions.

Zencat

AVRT dose cut through all the nonsense about ones lack of a fundamental capacity to change, not only ones mood but ultimately ones actions. I think it is best best practiced as one has matured in recovery...but as with many things in life, some benefit from such a practice at any stage in recovery. Wile others have a difficult time grasping a simple concept...to no fault of their own BTW. It is very useful to us that understand addiction in a non-standard AA way.

Sure we may reach beyond the common conventions that are discussed in a recovery community at large. But I can not belittle those that have an understanding of recovery different than my own. I have in the past...but I'm working to change that...LOL

Not to say that anybody is doing that on this thread. I just though I'd pull my own covers on the subject.

Lenina

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention this, but just in case, because it did help me so much, you might look into Rational Recovery. You can wiki it and see if it's something that might be useful to you.

I use much of RR and some AA in my recovery. I do think recovery is an on-going process for me.

I hope this helps.

Love,

Lenina

Zencat

Absolutely RR is of good mention. Except one can't provide a direct link to their site...because of RR controversial stance regarding AA. One thing I do is post the "google it": AVRT in a Nutshell faux link. That gets the job done all the same and abides within the rules here at SR.

Lenina

Zencat,

Thank you! RR really did help me so much. I think if I'd had RR available to me back when I first wanted to quit drinking, I would have been able to find sobriety then instead of suffering myself and hurting those around me.

I do think RR is almost pathological in its opinion of AA, or at least Jack Trimpey is.

Love,

Lenina

Zencat

I can see that . The diversity of recovery methods need not be controversial...unfortunately it can get that way. To thine own self be true

Freyakitty

AVRT resonates with me primarily because I also use Voice Dialogue with a therapist which is on a similar level as is parts integration in NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) which I use in my own business. I think though, there is a place for both AA and AVRT- although AVRT doesn't call alcoholism a disease, I believe it to be a dis-ease (which I feel is pretty much any disease anyway) - it's an alternative way of looking at it. I think whatever works for the individual is what ultimately matters. If researching it and "trying it on" occupies your mind away from your DOC, then there is everything to gain by arming yourself with tools and resources! The only thing that makes me uncomfortable about AVRT is how much Trimpey shuns AA - I think Slander is unprofessional and when he's in a position of influencing people, he's potentially preventing someone from finding useful resources as there are many to be found in AA.

Having said this, it's only Day 8 for me. I haven't had any withdrawal symptoms and I haven't had any cravings at all. But then, I've been using NLP in my daily life for about 8years and have done ALOT of personal development so who's not to say that this has given me a good foundation, preparing me for when I was ready to stop drinking and who knows what is around the corner for me? Maybe the worst is yet to come???? (hope not!!!)

SSIL75

That to me is the most powerful aspect of it. I was so wary of recovery in part because the thought of living my life ODAAT in meetings made me want to keep drinking. Honestly. I just didn't want that to be my life.

I now 'know' people on here who are in AA and know that their lives aren't like that or if they are, they are happy so more power to them. But AVRT and just the whole RR theory gave me great hope and just feels much more logical to me.

reggiewayne

Wow... thanks for all the replies. I took a lot from all of the posts. Like I said, I am in AA and have 32 days today. I am looking for any possible tool that will keep me on the path I am going on. To me, it seems possible to use both. I can see parallels between the "beast brain" and AA's disease model. They may not be related but to me they seem to be. I am simply trying to grow as a person and I know when drinking that is impossible.

I really do appreciate the replies and wish everyone the best of luck. Happy Monday!!!

Benowhere

Yeah, AVRT and every other technique or system in the world will not 'make' anyone quit their addictions. Nothing is magic. But it and Allen Carr cut out 99.5 percent of the waffle around addiction, and get to its core. Most people really dont want to dedicate their lives to meetings and adopt some imposed code of living, they want to live the way they want to live. AVRT gives us that opportunity, thankfully.

Benowhere

I would say they aren't really compatible, but everyone sees things differently. While the big book says there is no mental defence against the first drink except a spiritual experience, AVRT IS that mental defence.

Reading anything Jack Trimpey writes, it is abundantly clear that he is against AA and all recovery groups, he doesn't see addiction as disease, and he believes things like codependancy are nonsense.

Yes, he is very outspoken, but the thing is, much though not all of what he says is right.

northland

The reason why I have major reservations towards AA, is I've had a bad experience with it. Not everyone has, and I do respect the program because it works for a lot of people. And if it keeps people sober, then it's doing its job. It is however, not right for me. I do agree with Trimpey on some key points he makes. Although he certainly needs to be a little more tactful in how he compares his program to AA. They really are two seperate programs, with ideals that most definitely clash. AA you give yourself to the higher power. RR, you are the higher power, you are the one in control. AA, you attend recovery meetings. RR, meetings are counter-productive and don't exist. And for me, that's a huge one. I never understood why someone who had 5 or 10 years sober, would continually go to meetings, week in, week out, and stand up every night and say "Hi my names Jim and I'm an alcoholic."

All we have is the present moment. It is NOW. Tomorrow, it will be NOW. In a year, it will be NOW. The past is irrelevant, but it is a wonderful reference point we have to learn from. But if you are sober, and have been sober for 10 years, you shouldn't continually put yourself down, by starting off a meeting with a negative statement "I'm an alcoholic" . I do agree with Trimpey that this kind of thinking will keep you stuck in the mud for your entire life. People recover from addiction, and it is not something that should hang over your head for the rest of your life.

Benowhere

Absolutely! And there is no need to end up like that.

northland

And don't get me wrong, I have read the big book 3 times or so, and I still utilize a lot of the key points that are outlined in the big book. I personally think that recovery should be a fusion anything and everything you know about sobriety, and how it works for you. I don't think RR should be the be all end all recovery tool for anyone, because it is a simplistic way to deal with cravings. It doesn't teach you how to re-learn living life sober, it doesn't teach you how to be a better, happier person. All it is good for, is giving you a rational way of dealing with cravings. Beyond that, it's up to you to determine where to go from there. That's where other recovery tools come in. SMART really picks up the slack and gives people hope. AA meetings give people hope. Once again, it's just not the right thing for me

NEOMARXIST

Whatever works man. If you find yourself drinking again or not drinking but feeling absolutely crap and p*ssed-off so that you may as well be drinking again then it's obviously time to re-evaluate things. I've always said that for me then if I'm sober and happy about being sober then that's where I want to be.

There is no reason why you can't use lots of different recovery 'tools' in your recovery. That's the beauty of SR for me, that there are so many successfully sober people here who approach their recovery in slightly different ways, which is refreshing and also gives me a chance to learn from lots of different people.

There is no rule that says you have to go to AA meetings for the rest of your life. You are free to go whenever you want to go or whenver you don't want to go. It's your life and recovery. AA is free and readily available, certainly in UK, and it's great to have that outlet to utilise. Like I say it's your life and your recovery.

For me then stopping drinking was easy, it's the staying stopped which is hard as I was a binge-drinking, drug taking mash-head. It was the feelings and emotions that I would experience prior to picking up again what were my problem, simply stopping drinking and drugging wouldn't resolve this as effectively drink was my solution to put an end to how restless, discontented and disenchanted I would feel.

What I have gained in my recovery is truly priceless and hasn't occured as a result of just stopping drinking and magically everything in my head miraculously sorting itself out as if by magic. Sure without staying sober then I wouldn't be able to recover but I needed a program for living to be able to cope with life and not have a need to feel like alcohol is the only solution for what is going on in my head. I use AA, SR and much wisdom from elsewhere to achieve this. I never closed my mind to anything, despite initial doubts and reservations.

I have no problem with any recovery programs and if alcoholics manage to stay happily sober and live a contented, peaceful life as a result then fair play to them.

Also I don't view saying "I'm an alcoholic" as a negative 'put down'. In fact quite the opposite as for me it is liberating as that's what I am. I'm an alcoholic and I'm so damn grateful that I know and accept that fact. Being a drunk in denial is what I was ashamed of and I don't have a problem with the term alcoholic. It's been my salvation so I'm very, very grateful. Especially when i see the problems caused to people by continuing to try to prove that they're not alcoholic.

It's all about happiness for me - That's what i tried to get in drink and drugs and ultimately it just brought pain, shame and hopelessness. Recovery is required for me to achieve happiness and it's a daily process and work in progress, I cannot deny the results so I'm just grateful. Each to their own.

* I wrote this post in refernce to northland's post above primarily. In relationship to the OP then I find that I pciked up this knowledge via SR and it really helped me and I don't see how any of the recovery methods cannot compliment each other, though I am not an expert on the in's and out's as I am happy with my approach and chosen methods. SR is of massive importance to my recovery so I have an eclectic recovery program/strategy I guess, though AA and the twelve steps also play a massive part in my recovery and I have gained such a lot from them and am very grateful.

Peace

Antiderivative

Evidence has shown that the more involvement you have in AA, the higher chances you have for long term sobriety. Perhaps, this is true for any type of recovery program. Unfortunately, complacency does take many recovered alcoholics back to the bottle with some of them never finding their way back to recovery. Below is a link to an good and objective article on AA.

Yet a growing body of evidence suggests that while AA is certainly no miracle cure, people who become deeply involved in the program usually do well over the long haul. In a 2006 study, for example, two Stanford psychiatrists chronicled the fates of 628 alcoholics they managed to track over a 16-year period. They concluded that subjects who attended AA meetings frequently were more likely to be sober than those who merely dabbled in the organization.

Secret of AA: After 75 Years, We Don’t Know How It Works | Magazine