epochd

Last night after chickening out in my attempt to go to my first meeting (drove there couldn't go inside) i went home and read through all the 12-step and aa info i could find.

the word God came up a lot. as someone who is hardly religious is that going to be a problem for me? there seems like a lot of 'put your faith in God' language (which is fine) but i'm worried its really not going to speak to me.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

augustwest

read the chapter in the big book to the agnostic

keep in mind that it's a god of your understanding, nobody else's, no matter what someone might say inside or outside a meeting

in my opinion, god is such a loaded term these days. i had to take a step back and truly define it for myself, leaving dogma and my prejudices aside.

i'm a buddhist with atheistic tendencies, and am in na, and the program is working for me. it's taken some creative thinking and some reading/discussion but i've got the god thing working for me now. my concept may not be traditional or common but that doesn't matter. honestly, the minutia of peoples god doesn't come up much, if really ever in the NA rooms i frequent. the word god does, as does higher power, but i've learned to instantly put in what my god concept is, not some dogmatic christian concept or whatever else i've resisted over the years. it's truly up to me.

doggonecarl

I think you do WHATEVER it takes to be sober. God didn't stand in the way of your drinking, why should he stand in the way of your recovery.

That being said, I haven't gone the AA route. Many here have and claim it saved their lives. The main thing is to have a plan and start on it. Not picking up that first drink is a good start. So is coming here. Welcome. And please, remain open minded when it concerns your recovery.

keithj

I honestly don't know. It depends on how desperate you are, and how deep your Step 1 experience is.

I came to AA as a staunch atheist who thought that the idea of a 'higher power' was a crutch for weak-minded people. I recovered by having a spiritual awakening as the result of taking the 12 Steps.

All of the 'what-if', pre-thinking gets in the way of the experience. The action leads to the experience. What I had to do was be convinced, based on my own history, that I could not stop drinking and that I was massively screwed. Beyond hope. Only then did I become willing to do what I didn't believe in. The 'doing' of those suggested actions brought about the promised result.

Pretty simple really. I became convinced that my life was hopeless and futile, and I saw this thing working for others who once drank like I did. I did what they did, and recovered like they did.

Excellent point. The 'god of my misunderstanding' certainly wouldn't fall into Western, Christian definitions. Willing to believe in something is the only requirement.

least

AA is NOT a religious program, tho many of its members are. Keep that in mind. When I was first going to meetings in early recovery my faith in "whatever" was so shaky I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of higher power. I decided to make my beloved dogs my higher power 'cause of their unconditional love for me. It kept me going in the right direction until I came to my own understanding of my own higher power.

Anna

I had to reconnect with my spiritual self, no question about that. For me, it was essential.

But, that is different than religion.

I think that you should do whatever it takes to become sober.

Isaiah

I myself have very mixed feelings about the religious (I'm sorry "spiritual") aspects of AA. I am a religious person myself, but even I run up against a lot of obstacles in AA.

I could sum up an experience I've had over in over in AA as such: "No. AA is not a religious program and we accept everybody... now that I've told you that let me explain why so many of your beliefs are wrong and why Bill W should be your prophet and savior..."

There can be a sort of hypocritical double speak for sure. However, I've found meetings, a sponsor and a program that puts most of that aside. I just go to AA to get sober and whatever I don't need I don't take. There is an established belief that if you work AA you will get spiritual revelations for it. I don't believe that at all. I practice all my religious growth outside of AA, I bring God into my sobriety, but I do not go to AA to grow closer to God.

Murray4x5

Hi epochd, welcome aboard SR

I'm an atheist leaning agnostic who's receptive to occasional animistic whisperings...or something like that...and hang out in the Secular Connections Forum quite a bit. There may be some things there more suited to your nature;

Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

As soon as I find the link to the different recovery programs available besides AA, I'll post it here.

Glad you're here. I remember how significant my first post was. It was a line in the sand and a concrete admission to myself that I really had to quit.

Murray

Dee74

Welcome Epochd

Should this problem become insoluble for you, there are many other programmes - check out the link in our alcoholism forum.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

Don't let anything stand in the way of your recovery
D

Murray4x5

Dee beat me!

Murray

augustwest

"let me explain why so many of your beliefs are wrong and why Bill W should be your prophet and savior..."

you've really heard that? wow. i believe that you're being honest, but still, wow. i've never heard such things about Bill W. or Jimmy K, or even Jesus for that matter in the rooms.

not that it really matters, it's just interesting i guess. and the beauty of it is that you can have your outside religious growth, bring god into recovery, etc... while i have my way of doing it, and so on, and so forth.....but we all come together in the rooms and help eachother through another day by sharing and caring. whatever it is we each believe, when you bring it all under the umbrella of the fellowship of AA/NA or whaetever one, it works. And that is all that matters.

Itchy

On edit: OK I took so long composing several beat me to the welcome.

epoch!
An indicator of how relevant and universal your post was is that all of us who normally first welcome you to the forums forgot!
to SR! And congratulations on your seeking a way to get and stay sober!

I had the same issue with AA from the outside looking in, especially since the group I have as my home group meets in a church! However no one there has prosyletized me about religion. In fact only one person goes to that chursh and several others have mentioned that they went to church that morning, as we meet Sunday afternoons at 4.

I don't do religion, and there is a big difference in being an atheist and not doing religion. I think it is hubris to believe that there is nothing greater than ourselves, if only that be the cosmos for some. I have no issue with atheists or those of a particular religious bent. But there is one common belief that all share both here and at AA meetings.

We believe that we are powerless over alcohol, and we believe that we can change and maintain sobriety and learn to be honest with ourselves and make amends for what we have done while drinking, or sober, that may have harmed another.

If you believe that, then you will have no problems here or at an AA meeting, as we all believe in hope in the face of helplessness.

I am just a simple man and have no great insights for others beyond that drinking is bad for humans that cannot stop, and must stop.

AA is not for everyone some choose other alternatives and they are out there. If you want to see what I mean just go to another meeting and go in, you'll find out that they don't bite and then you'll know if it is for you or not.

Again welcome, and good luck on your journey, may it intersect mine.

Isaiah

I was being a little hyperbolic. But it has not been unusual for me to hear someone cite the Big Book or AA tradition as a kind of evidence that my own religious beliefs are wrong. I have a deep interest in theology and while I know that AA claims and may wish to be very open, I have seen for myself a very coded set of beliefs that I think people are expected to adopt to have a proper "spiritual awakening as a result of these steps."

I say it not to bash AA, I love the program and can't imagine what I've done without it. But I think AA needs a whole lot more "rigorous honesty" when it comes to acknowledging its spiritual nature and not merely pointing fingers at everyone who lies outside it.

LaFemme

I am actually religious but favor a secular approach to recovery. God is always with me and he has given me tools to get sober such as SR, my coach, an inability to smell alcohol and not gag (thanks. Especially for that one) and a desire to work on all areas of my life.

Oops kind of off topic except that my point was hopefully that if a relignus person can lfind healing in a secular approach...hopefully an agnostic can find healing in AA:-)

Itchy

LaFemme,
Excellent! I take what I can use and leave the rest.

sampar

An old timer told me : Religion is for those afraid of Hell , Spirituality is for those of us who have been to Hell!
It nailed it for me, as an alkie i've lived in Hell, but thanks to a Power greater than my self i am in soberity . i asked a catholic priest i met in a meeting once how in the name of Jesus is a priest an alkie, i thought u had a direct line to God.............he answered me saying "I have faith in God he is my father, spiritually i was redundant , I'm an alkie it was all about me"
All i know is ...................i have accepted what i am, & for me to get sober if it was suggested to me to climb mount everest i would, i accept the programme as it is................IT works!!!!!!

DayTrader

I've found......that throughout my whole life (prior to recovery especially - it's getting muuuuch better now).......that I'm afraid of anything I don't believe I have a complete understanding of. ---ESPECIALLY if there are other ppl there "watching me" (and u just knooooow they're watching ME - lol) and by watching me they figure out that "I don't know."

So, fear of the unknown is normal. The question is are you willing to give it a try.....to put in the actions.....in spite of being nervous, afraid, apprehensive, or suspect? Are you (or anyone really) willing to set down your preconceived ideas/beliefs for a new experience in something? Are you willing to try something you can't possibly understand because you have no actual experience with it.....yet?

It's like starting a new sport.......are you willing to try it, even though you probably won't be the best in the world at it for now? When I was little, I thought golf sucked. It looked stupid, boring, and for dorks only. When I tried it (because ALL my friends were playing) I sucked at it for a while and, because I was so new at it I still harbored a lot of misconceptions - I still believed a lot of things that proved to false. Over time, with practice and persistence, I discovered I loved the game....that it was fun.....that it was a thinking game......that it didn't require strength but it did require power..... basically started to uncover all the false beliefs I had and became teachable enough to learn what was REALLY goin' on. --I couldn't have done that without actually getting out there and playing.

AA is like that. Reading the books, listening to the ppl, attending meetings..... it "seems" this way or that way....until you try it. Once you try it though, that'll knock down a couple of the walls. Most of them, however, will still be in place. Through practice and persistence though, you'll find more and more of your walls will get knocked down over time. Then something really cool happens.......you realize you really don't hardly know jack.......and you'll be okay with that. You'll embrace it actually.

I've come to learn that I was completely wrong in a belief that I held for as long as I can remember. That belief told me that if I just figured things out (or at least as much as I could), I'd be ok. I thought that "not knowing" was my problem....that's what held me back....that's why "you" didn't think as highly of me as I thought of myself....that was what hurt. Turns out, "not knowing" is cool........but believing I need to know was a killer. With that belief system (that I need to know), I'm never "OK" cuz there's an endless supply of stuff I don't know....and will probably NEVER know....

Whaddya know, it's not what I didn't know that hurt me.... it was believing my beliefs (like the one that told me that I need to know). Who woulda known?

I think all that just might mean that I'd be best off if I don't always trust everything I think.....or think I see......or think I hear......or think I think, see, and hear. I better be willing to set aside all that stuff for a new experience.

Clearhead

"A god of your understanding" is wierd to me. What god would be a god at all if we get to design him/her/it to appeal to us? I would have trouble looking for refuge in something I created to fit me, because it would be my equal since I created it. After saying that AA is a very good program that you can find a lot of support from other people. Once you grab a sponsor(if you choose to) he/she will be great to talk to about this!

Murray4x5

I'm walking a self directed path, knowing it's me that has the choice to go buy a bottle, the choice to bring it home, the choice to open it, the choice to pour some in a glass, the choice to raise it to my lips, and finally, the choice to drink it which will set my brain stem and limbic system reward receptors off like a bunch of fireworks. That would put me back to square one.

I am not powerless...my fate as far as drinking goes is completely in my own hands.

Science based research has been my guide.

There are quite a few people here on SR who quit on their own on the first try...I'm working hard to join that group!

Murray

Toronto68

Epoch, when it comes to that, I would say to listen to yourself (your inclinations) and take notice of the fact that you want to go. Don't let the God words hold you back and make a difference. Some groups have more of a religious hue to them than others, according to what I have been learning from people here.

I suppose I am agnostic on some level, because I don't really know what I believe in. I just know that there is a feeling in me that wants to believe and needs to. It's not what Jesus said on the Mount or what God said to Abraham or how many sheep Noah brought into the ark and it sure isn't all this stuff you hear on the History channel ad nausium about Nostradamus, the year 2012 and all that marketing around the End of the World. It's what's still there after I came out of years of drinking and what's still there in my ability to hope and to feel comforted. It might very well be my human conscience and peices of my personality. But that doesn't matter to me anymore. I don't have the answers (and I can actually say "thank God" to that!)

You might have some other verison of what I am talking about. I suggest taking the good in what we can call agnosticism and to go through with the pull toward an AA meeting. Easier said than done, because I have not gone since I quit, but if you want to try it, I wouldn't want certain notions to put up walls inside you. Maybe it would take time to do this, but some people are able to "take what works and leave the rest," which you hear from AA people a lot.

About 10 years ago I tried to read the AA Big Book and wasn't receptive. I have read passages of it since then and I have changed. I haven't gone through it all, out of laziness or insufficient interest, but the tone and word choices don't present a problem to me the way they used to do. And a lot of times I seem to recognize the same meaning in what people say here, just not the same words from the book. In a lot of cases they might not even have been to a meeting or read the BB.

If I haven't made much sense thus far, what I am trying to say is I would want you to be able to incorporate the good from whatever method you think is going to help you, and if that means showing up at AA, then so much the better. You wouldn't be the first person to have similar questions or hesitations and you won't be the last.

Good luck and otherwise make use of this site in the meantime.