Living Sober VS. Living Clean/Honest
 

I am asking to hear peoples views on living a drug/alcohol/substance free existence while still being to some degree a dishonest person...or a person who isn't living a life thats serves the interest of his fellows. Like say a lawyer who defends murderers, a woman who prostitutes or the man who buys from her, doctors who prescribe dangerous meds when a more natural approach would have been effective...catch my drift? Can these people do AA, and truly live according to the 12 steps even though they are greedy and dishonest??

Honesty is very important to me in recovery, though I am not an AA person.

But, I have no interest in judging anyone else's recovery.

I think it depends on their perspective ...after all someone needs to defend murderers in the court, the Dr might believe the medicine is the best one and the prostitute might need to teed her kids....I got nothing for the man who uses the prostitute though.

I'm with Anna - the only person I'm really qualified to judge is me...

Recovery really is an inside job...if I'm really focused on working on myself, how could something others may or may not do out there in the world have any repercussion for me and my recovery?

D

Unless you are asking because you feel you are one of these people?

The longer I do this the more I realize the only person I have to live up to is me. I know if I'm dishonest I find it difficult to live with myself - and am only cheating myself. Also, when you say dishonest - do you mean lying or omitting the truth? There's a lot of things I really need to be honest with myself about, but I'm not there yet - there's only so much you can bear at one time.

Yes I am bringing this up because I am one of these people. My first sponsor who led me through my 9 mos of sobriety made it clear that I was sober but I wasnt "clean."

Do you know why you are being dishonest?

In that case - being dishonest got in the way of my recovery for many years, yeah.

I'm not in AA but from my own experience I needed to be totally honest with myself, at least....and I found I *wanted* to be honest with others.

D

Hmmmm....well I'm not in aa but I maintain that its perspective. And its a question you need to ask yourself but also realize your sponsor is a human being and has their own flaws...perhaps you might consider finding a new sponsor.

The only person I 'have' to be honest with is myself. And to the nth degree, I MUST be honest in my sobriety.

With sobriety...I'm finding that honesty comes much more easily, than it ever did before.

Best wishes to you.

Without giving too many details about my own dishonesty...its not that I'm dishonest with myself just to certain others to a certain degree. I did end up leaving that sponsor not for that reason though, just because I started drinking again. Now that I am back I have a new sponsor anyway who seems much more flexible than my first sponsor.

I've spent years lying about myself. When I was a kid I had to go to therapy and I would sit there and lie. I'd say I was OK and my life was perfect and I had no reason to be in therapy, because I was fine. In reality I was dying inside and didn't want to admit I was the kind of person who needed therapy.

What if you just start with telling the truth about little things you would usually lie about and see how it goes? I'd imagine not being honest in your recovery can seriously jeopardize it.

The goal in AA is to develop a relationship with God because without Him, you've got no choice but to continue getting drunk. I don't see how someone who's a real alcoholic can stay sober, believe in, love and trust God, yet live a life that's contrary to all of that.

I'm not saying nobody could do it........but I've come to see there's a huge price to pay for dishonesty, materialism, egotism, underhandedness, being sneaky, being mean......all that stuff.

Over and over the BB mentions honesty, rigorous honesty in fact.

It's up to each person to make their own choices but, in the spirit of "sticking with the winners," I don't know one person in the program I look up to who's got a level of sobriety I want yet is still playin' games on a regular basis. Sure, nobody's perfect, but we have the ability to STRIVE for perfection......and the program will pay dividends in proportion to how well you live it. For me, I don't want to take the chance at trying to stay sober on half-measure efforts.

Thanks DayTrader. Yes that is exactly what my first sponsor was driving into me.

Hi LiveLikeGold,

I don't know what your situation is exactly, and I'm not in AA.

However, for me, one reason it is important for me to be fair and honest is to feel respect for human dignity. If I were to participate in dishonesty or something that took advantage of people, I would feel very cynical about human kind -- after all, how do you know anything about anyone's character except for your own? Such negativity would lead me back to booze and drugs in no time, I'm sure, because I don't think I would be valuing myself very much if I didn't live up to my personal ethics -- and without valuing myself, I'd sink into a hedonistic hell hole (and have).

On the other hand, I agree with what LaFemme says so I wonder about your examples . . . I don't have anything against defense attorneys or those forced into prostitution . . . so, I'm not sure if this is a disagreement with a sponsor on a personal values level or if you feel that what you are doing is wrong. If what you are doing is causing you to feel shame, then I would imagine that it could only make sobriety more challenging. I hope you find peace with this question . . .

Integrity doesn't need a program, it's a personal choice.

Once I lost my integrity, it was hell getting it back. I know for a fact that sleepless nights pondering my behavior have made me feel old before my time. Greed didn't kill me, but made me wish I were dead at times, just to get off the treadmill.

I don't miss those days.

No they cannot...the program of AA iswork the steps, get spiritual awakening and then go andlive a happy life...the sponsors job to guide a person through working the steps to get their spiritual awakening...thats it!

Can you go to meetings and hang off of them to stay sober whilst still being dishonest...some can...for a while...

What I've done/do certainly does bring shame, and a different level of lonliness....reading your responses is helping to see different perspectives.

Many years ago there was a fellow at the North Hollywood Alano Club, that I met early in my recovery. At that time he had almost 30 years continuous recovery.

However, as he shared, I learned that he had been a drunk bank robber. After he found sobriety, he continued to rob banks for almost 7 years, never getting caught, and he thought (his words) 'great I am much better sober'.

But, something finally snapped in him, and he knew if he didn't do something about what he had been doing he would drink again, and HE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT. So he turned himself in, admitted his guilt, served his sentence, with some time off for being a model prisoner, and when I met him, he had been out of prison for about 6 months.

His message, was H.O.W. the program works ................... Honesty, Openmindedness, Willingness. I have never forgotten his message.

Hope that helps.

Love and hugs.