mama36

My problem with this Squizz, is that as often as I drank was taking time away from my family, my studies, my job, my life...if I go to meetings as often as I drank my son still suffers because now Mommy is sober but she is never home. I have to work, study, and go to a meeting and miss bed time and prayer time 3 or 4 times per week so my son still suffers, my life still suffers. You see, I do have a life outside of AA and I do have to tend to that life, that is why I HAD to quit drinking, to make time for the things that I wasn't doing when I was drunk.

The success rate of people using AA is approx 5% and that is nearly the same as any other program being used.

D.

LexieCat

Is that the number of people who attend AA, or those who thoroughly work the Steps?

See, it isn't so easy when you look at it that way. It honestly isn't possible to "count" the success rate, because the surveys don't look into that. They basically count people who walk in the door, maybe use it as a support group for awhile. It isn't a good measure of the success rate of the AA PROGRAM of recovery.

SweetCityWoman

Perhaps the existing research on AA has not examined empirically differences in those who use AA as a support group vs. those who do the steps, however, it is certainly possible to design such as study. It just might not have been done or is difficult to get people to agree to participate in such as study even if it is anonymous. It is more difficult to do an outcome study that examines those who leave AA for whatever reason. One can't assume negative outcomes but it would be interesting to understand the differences in people in all 3 situations, i.e., those who stay in and do the steps, those who only use AA as a support group, and those who come in but drop out totally. Perhaps there are such studies. If anyone knows of any some references would be useful (or a place where this literature can be found).

stugotz

"Rarely do we see a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path" - With the emphasis on thoroughly.

AA isnt for those who need it or want it, its for those who are willing to do whatever it takes to get sober. I highly recommend that if someone isnt into AA, that they go out there and try something else. Thats what I did, and thats what it took for me to realize that I had to give up trying to find an "easier and softer way" My best thinking put me in the gutter, so it was time to listen those who had dragged themselves out of it. Just sayin...

Squizz

Well here's an idea: If you're suffering so much because of going to AA, why don't you stop going to AA? It sounds to me like it's hurting you more than it's helping. If your other priorities are so important, don't go. It's that simple. AA isn't suppose to take your life away from you, it's suppose to give it back! I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes you just gotta' do what ya' gotta' do. But that being said a man of 50+years of sobriety once put it to me like this: "Those who pickup generally tend to be those who stop going to meetings."

And it certainly seems to hold true from what I've seen. Hey, if you think you can win your battle with alcoholism on your own accord, that's your prerogative. I know people who have done it. That being said, I know a lot more who've tried it that way, and failed. (Myself included.) The choice is ultimately up to you.

Squizz

Exactly. Wouldn't it be nice if we all could just take some magic pill, and be cured of alcoholism or drug addiction? For the time being though, I'll stick to going to meetings.

mama36

As with any recovery program - you either do the work involved or you don't get the results that you are looking for. My entire point here was that when I am told by AA members that if I do not come back I will fail I find that to be painting with an awfully broad brush and quite frankly I am not easily swayed into believing that I have to have that kind of reliance on a meeting in order to live a happy life. I will not fail, I am not that type of person with or without AA. Whatever method I choose to arm myself with in order to stay sober is the method that I will work on and follow through in order to protect that sobriety. I have never had my AADAC Counsellor tell me in no uncertain terms that I either do exactly as she says or I will not make it. In fact she is working with me on terms that I can live with in order to remain sober and find the issues that have lead me to this point in my life.

My God is a God that I love and trust and I pray to him each day for forgiveness, a clear mind and positive thinking. A man in my meeting yesterday told us that his higher power was the people in his meetings...meaning that he is relying on them to remove his defects of character?? That makes no sense to me. Some, not all, of the people in those rooms are at such a low point in their lives and their minds that they have no other choice but to believe that if they aren't there they will fail. I am not, have not and will not ever be at that low a state. That is why I am sober today...because I have too much to live for to ever let myself get to a point where I would believe anything just to get sober again.

Some people have a very strong belief in AA and some don't, I guess what I have learned today is that I do not have that strong a belief in it. When I go to meetings I get tense, annoyed, and a major headache. I don't feel like I am learning to empower myself in those meetings, I am "learning" to put all of my defects, flaws, problems on a higher power. I have put my trust in God and God will help me to find my way and a program that works for me...he is already working for me on that.

God is God, not a bunch of people who sit in a room and tell me that I can't live without them. That is wonky to me to say the least. I guess I am too independent for that type of program.

I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers with this thread. I find that AA is a touchy subject for those who believe in it while it seems that many are afraid to voice their opinion if they don't believe in it.

Rusty Zipper

got'a love SR!

hey, i'm with anna,

i drank and drugged everyday,

i'm here everyday

because i like to,

i made a commitment to my recovery,

now that my addictions dont make their commitments to me.

good wishes to all on your journey's

mama36

I am with Anna too Rusty...I'm sober and I intend to stay that way...and after today I feel that my recovery will be AA-less.

D.

LexieCat

I don't see any attacking of people going on, here, just a respectful discussion.

Ultimately, each of us is responsible for our own recovery. We need to be honest with ourselves about whether what we are doing is, or is not, giving us the results we want. Presumably we all want happy, healthy sobriety.

If going to a meeting every day gives you that, great. You've achieved success by your own measure. If going to meetings just for support without working the steps does that, again, great. We only ask that you not dilute the AA message for those who need it in order to recover. If you can get the result you want by working with a counselor or therapist, or by practicing meditation, or whatever, again--no argument with success. I know a lot of people who got sober and are living happy lives without AA.

I don't like to hear people that go to AA WITHOUT WORKING THE STEPS claim that AA "doesn't work". It's like taking piano lessons from a famous pianist, refusing to practice, and claiming that the teacher is lousy.

Squizz

BAWHAHAHWAHA. I'm sorry......But it's very evident to me what's wrong with your AA experience now. I can look at your post and see an abundance of "I's" in it. That's your whole problem I think. AA is a "we" program. The first step doesn't say: "I admitted I was powerless over alcohol, that MY life had become unmanageable." Seems to me like you're just trying to take what you can get out of AA, and bring absolutely nothing to the table. IF that is in fact the case, I'd suggest you end your AA experience now, because it most likely isn't going to be a good one. Like they say, "Ya' gotta' give it away to keep it."

OR if you do stay in AA, why don't you try some service work? You know like, making coffee, setting up tables, being librarian, etc. I've never seen any of that stuff HURT anyone, ya' know. Sorta' sounds to me like you're missing the whole point of the experience, which is to GET OUT OF YOURSELF.

stugotz

"To thine own self be true"

Nuff said.

mama36

EXACTLY the kind of thing that I originally began this thread about...somebody told you if you don't go you fail!!! Those who pick up, from what I have researched, are those who chose to pick up. I have a mind of my own and a recovery program other than AA, it is not the be all that ends all.

Talking about this is just like trying to talk to a Catholic person about going to a different church. "Open your mind" to AA but make sure you close it right away so that nobody can have a different opinion that might be legitimate or in need of some support. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion unless it differs from those who support AA.

Dee74

Good thread.

I think it was another Mama, Mama Cass, who said you've gotta make your own kind of music...

as long as you're honest with yourself, and you know how, when and where to turn for help, you're in good stead IMO

D

LexieCat

Mama,

I think you're taking the discussion a bit personally. I think it's been repeated here, several times, that nobody can say for certain what YOU, PERSONALLY, have to do to get sober.

I believe what Squizz was saying was that it isn't a good idea to "stop going to meetings". That's a far cry from insisting that someone go to a prescribed number of meetings.

If it helps you to go to AA meetings for the support, keep going. If not, don't. But please don't claim that AA is "rigid" and "close-minded" when YOU are the one choosing not to follow the suggested program of recovery. Nobody is forcing you to. And you can walk away any time you like. And if you do that, and you ever change your mind and want to come back, you will be welcome.

mama36

I totally realize that the door will always be open. I have tried to open my mind to AA but it is Rigid in my opinion.

Thoroughly follow the steps...but if you read how it works it is "Suggested" and if you sit in the meetings your higher power can be who ever or whatever you choose. This is not making sense to me. Either you thoroughly follow or you use the suggestions as a guideline which has been stated as okay in my meetings. Thoroughly following means that you don't choose your own way, it means you do or you don't. Suggest means that it is one way to do it, but not the only way.

I am not taking anything personally except the comment from Squizz that I use "I" too much. I don't share and say, "WE are Donna and WE are an alcoholic". I am there to help me as I am too new to help anyone else.

I - am there to learn to be independent, not dependent...does that make sense?

D.

LaFemme

I teresting thread...thanks for everyone's thoughtful opinions :-) if I spent as much time on recovery as I did drinking id never get anything done...lol:-D

Rusty Zipper

mama not to give you anything but my truth,

i go to A.A.

and almost always at least 5 or six days a week,

and for many reasons.

my point was about the commitment to our recovery.

anna said to me way long ago,

that i got myself out of the abyss,

that hit home,

and will stay with me forever,

as i never want to risk my will alone bringing me back there.

SweetCityWoman

Mama - Again, I really think this thread has been very helpful and you have been very respectful as have others in this discussion. It has been an important and valuable discussion for people - whether just reading it or participating with an opinion. I have the greatest respect for each person's comments and everyone for being patient enough to make their point and try to understand other points being voiced here.

The very nature of recovery is complex - if it was easy we would have no need for a forum!! So to be able to have an honest and open discussion to be has been enlightening - not narrowing in focus. The ultimate goal is for people to find what works for them and work it. The best way to get there is to learn from the experience of others by being open enough to listen and share and learn.

LexieCat

OK, one last suggestion.

This is where having a sponsor helps a WHOLE LOT. Making sense of the seeming contradictions. The program is suggested, but AA IS the program. There is no "other" AA program.

You want to be independent from alcohol, from being at the mercy of other people, places, and things. AA teaches dependence on a Higher Power, which may be the God of your understanding. Or it could be the universe. Some people used the group, in the beginning, as their Higher Power. Because there is undeniably a power in the group that exceeds the sum of the power of the individuals. Most people "grow out of" having the group as their higher power, but it is helpful for people who can't initially grasp the concept of any power greater than themselves.

If you decide to stick with it for awhile, I strongly recommend a sponsor. A sponsor is also the person to whom you can vent your frustrations, your confusion, your questions. That's part of what they are there for.