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It's all alcohols fault.... is it really ?

Old 09-02-2019, 07:15 AM
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It's all alcohols fault.... is it really ?

Hey everyone,

So I have been in a "dilemma" in life. Having attended AA for quite a while, seen some people recovered and some others in recovery, I have come to some conclusions which I want to share. Needless to say, you are more than welcome to disagree.

1. Recovered alcoholics are not always happy. Matter fact, a lot of them are still in pretty bad shape.

2. Alcohol is used to mask underlying issues. Drinking alcohol makes those issues even worse. However, even after recovering, this does not mean the underlying issues are gone.

3. The fact that you do not attend or not go to AA DOES NOT mean that you are not able to recover or you would be a "dry drunk". This is just not true. If you take an alternative way to sobriety, and it works and makes you happy, that's the way.

4. AA is awesome. I still get impressed by the amount of help this does for people. While it does not work for me, I take a lot of principles from there.

5. There is not a more egocentric place than an AA room (sorry if this is harsh). But I have seen a thousand times people looking newcomers or early in sobriety guys over their shoulder.

Spoiler alert: Being sober a long time is something incredible, not "cool". So, if you are one of those, please, relax.

6. It's all a matter of habits. Period. That's the key to recovery.

Being that said, I am truly honest with everyone in here. I want to stop drinking. However, I do not think I will be able to do this without me solving some clear issues. These problems took me to alcohol, it is not the alcohol's fault. However, alcohol became a problem for me, disease and I can no longer drink it.

Every person's life is unique. So are their problems (even with a lot of similarities). Focusing 100% on not drinking won't cut it. Focus 99% in fixing your problems, and you will probably 100% stay away from booze.

Good afternoon.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:25 AM
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For me it was just fixing alcohol. Or changing that habit. I am not saying I am perfect or have no problems but none of them need addressing for me to stop drinking and being happy. My biggest problem now is having to go to work tomorrow, which is a good problem really. Like you said, we are all different. Some go to alcohol because of problems, some have alcohol create problems. I had some problems because of alcohol but none that were long term. Just in the moment problems. For me it was my fault. Alcohol was not to blame, I just drank to much of it. Now that I dont drink my life is basically the same except I feel better, have no, or very little, anxiety, and have alot more cash at hand. Drinking is a wonderful habit to give up.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:45 AM
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Interesting thread. I had other issues that I addressed through alcohol which in turn created a chemical dependency on alcohol to cope with those issues. I started drinking at 12 years old - too young to make a logical decision about drinking but old enough to quickly realize it was a coping mechanism.

I think alcohol abuse abuse then becomes the “chicken and the egg” argument. I couldn’t have told you if the pain/drinking came first - both were there.

I do agree that sobriety doesn’t equal instant happiness. It’s a journey one must go through and face your demons along the way. Those demons are damn scary though and it takes effort and support to work through those.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:47 AM
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You're right, alcohol isn't the only problem...but it is the first problem that has to be taken care of.

You make some true observations about AA, and you've decided AA isn't for you. So what's your plan?
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:53 AM
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For me, the key to recovery has been to get to the bottom line of fears, insecurities, foibles, etc. Why I feel that way. How it effects me. What my reactions are. After doing that, then I come with a plan of change based on what I uncovered about me with the self reflection. Then I get into action with that plan.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:57 AM
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Completely agree that our problems, issues, bad habits, complexes are not the cause of alcohol alone.

Completely disagree that we need to solve, resolve or deal with any of these issues before we quit for good.

Sobriety has brought me the space, peace and power to finally confront my self and my life.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:12 AM
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It is pretty common knowledge I the rooms of AA that drinking is not “the problem”, it is a symptom of other problems.

What’s interesting about your list is that you may not feel the exact same way with another year of sobriety.

Ironically, the folks in the AA room are typically doing their best to be rid of that ego. And I could argue anywhere people are drinking is more ego centric than the rooms of AA, ha!
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:17 AM
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For me it was a process of elemation my life sucked so I had to come with a solution. I was like hmmm what can I change to make life tolerable? Okay lets try not boozing. And slowly but surely things started to be better. And on a daily basis even better now at day 121 even better. ✌
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:20 AM
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1st - quit alchohol
2nd - deal with what we used alchohol for a solution to.
3rd - deal with the underlying problems (sometimes requires "outside" help like counciling and strong friendships.

I've been in and out for over 30 years and that is my short summary.

Ananda logged in as Ananda1 due to password issues.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:35 AM
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From my own experience and having seen a lot of people struggle and also manage to quit drinking, this is the conclusion I've come to:

1. Quit drinking. (By whatever means--I did AA and the steps, but there are other paths, of course.)
2. Deal with the underlying problems.

Maybe it's possible, but I haven't seen it work the other way around. Alcohol creates so many problems of its own, that I can't imagine fixing problems while still drinking.

For me, I also used the idea of me "fixing my problems" as a way to keep drinking. Because there was this underlying sense that if I could fix the underlying "issues," then my drinking problem would go away. Of course, I couldn't fix the problems while drinking, so I kept drinking. It was a vicious loop.

Only by focusing on sobriety first could I even begin to heal and work on the underlying issues.

I wish you the best.

PS I also agree that not everyone who is sober is happy. I'm not always happy. Sometimes I'm flat out miserable. That's life. But I am always happy and grateful that I'm sober, which is different.
If I weren't sober, I'd be dead, so I'll take the ups and downs of life as a blessing.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:44 AM
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I have thought about this a lot. I do not know what the real cause of my alcoholism is but what I do know is that I really enjoy being drunk. Not fall down drunk obviously but just that nice buzz. Unfortunately it never stops there so I gave it up and am much happier even without the buzz.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:44 AM
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My experience has been that the alcohol needs to be removed first which then reveals the "real" problems that need addressing.

I think this is very much acknowledged in AA and the other 12 step programs.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:46 AM
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Completely agree that our problems, issues, bad habits, complexes are not the cause of alcohol alone.

Completely disagree that we need to solve, resolve or deal with any of these issues before we quit for good.

Sobriety has brought me the space, peace and power to finally confront my self and my life.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:57 AM
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So, here goes:

THIS
[U I want to stop drinking. However, I do not think I will be able to do this without me solving some clear issues.][/U] is where I spent a long time, and entirely disagree with your conclusion.

I believe the substance must - MUST- be out before anything else is addressed.

No, it's not about the alcohol. As with the 12 steps: alcohol is mentioned once, the first step, and not again.

I could write much more to each of the points, numerical and in the sentences, but my simple conclusions are this:
We want it to be complicated - and it's just not.

And, I work recovery so that I may never be a dry drunk. It's the worst thing I would want to be - over a non-alcoholic, dead, or most definitely what I am, a recovering alcoholic.

That last part?A dry drunk has nothing to do with your recovery program of choice.

Peace -
A
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:57 AM
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"I want to stop drinking. However, I do not think I will be able to do this without me solving some clear issues."

Hope, you want to quit drinking.
great.
seems you're saying you need to get issues out of the way first, in order to stop.
i have not found that to be so, though i did believe that for a long time. a belief that kept me drinking. no need to quit with a belief like that, as long as i had not fixed my issues. it was very convenient. though it felt desperate.

my suggestion would be to find a way to quit drinking and then you can work on clearing the "issues" and that will likely help with staying quit.

there is no dilemma if you want to stop.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:27 AM
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Well, first of all I want to begin telling everyone that I appreciate your replies, insights and the respectful way this thread was addressed. This is awesome.

I believe I have perhaps not expressed myself correctly or completely. But no means I want to say that I was going to keep drinking until I fix my problems. However, it is because of this problems that I keep drinking, so it becomes a vicious cycle.

My pattern, as a binge drinker, is that I drink a lot and then feel like crap for around a week or two. Ironically, as I start "Recovering" I have a sensation of peace... I feel so miserable because of the hungover that all my other problems go away and I just focus on how awful I feel because of the drinking. One the long hungover starts to disappear, my other problems pop up... around a month or so after it, and that's when I break.

So it is more about how to break that cycle. I have engaged in a lot of things now, counselling, got into sports, dedicated to work, so I'm putting everything in line. And I will keep going from time to time to AA, as I mentioned in the thread, I think it's wonderful, depending on how one use it.

Have a beautiful day everyone
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:38 AM
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Like others have said we try to make this as complicated as possible. Whether its trying to outsmart it or look at it from every possible angle. Realizing I was an alcoholic, stop my drinking, and working a recovery program has brought me my life back. It takes time, but for me, it is such an easier and fulfilling way to live.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Hope1989 View Post
Well, first of all I want to begin telling everyone that I appreciate your replies, insights and the respectful way this thread was addressed. This is awesome.

I believe I have perhaps not expressed myself correctly or completely. But no means I want to say that I was going to keep drinking until I fix my problems. However, it is because of this problems that I keep drinking, so it becomes a vicious cycle.

My pattern, as a binge drinker, is that I drink a lot and then feel like crap for around a week or two. Ironically, as I start "Recovering" I have a sensation of peace... I feel so miserable because of the hungover that all my other problems go away and I just focus on how awful I feel because of the drinking. One the long hungover starts to disappear, my other problems pop up... around a month or so after it, and that's when I break.

So it is more about how to break that cycle. I have engaged in a lot of things now, counselling, got into sports, dedicated to work, so I'm putting everything in line. And I will keep going from time to time to AA, as I mentioned in the thread, I think it's wonderful, depending on how one use it.

Have a beautiful day everyone
I've addressed this issue so many times from my personal experience that I feel like I should boilerplate it and keep it in a file so I can just cut and paste it. At the risk of being seen as the old duffer who keeps repeating himself:

I spent months talking to counselors trying to find the cause of my drinking, thinking that once I understood the causes, I would quit. Now my life wasn't perfect, and I had plenty of flaws (and still do), but I could find nothing buried in me that warranted excessive drinking, nothing lacking really, and my potty training years were a wonderful success.

Think about it. As an addictive substance, alcoholism needs no outside causes. Addiction can be and usually has a biochemical origin. No emotional issues need to exist for this to happen naturally. Not saying they never play a role, but they don't need to be there for addiction to occur.

As already pointed out, we can and often do make this seem a lot more complicated than it is. I sure did. Granted after I quit, I did work out some major life issues, but I'm not sure I even needed to quit to do that. It may have just been the right timing and the right environment for it to happen.

Alcoholism is a problem. It can be put into remission by abstinence. Mental health issues can be addressed by personal growth, psychiatry, or treated chemically. I wouldn't say it's a mistake to put them all in the same stew and treated as one, but I don't think this is absolutely necessary. I'm not in favor of putting the plug in the jug, and hating the rest of my life, either. Personal growth should be a life long journey. Mine was arrested during my drinking years but was given new life when I quit drinking.

Drinking was my problem. Alcoholism was my problem, and I needed to fix that more than anything else. And I've been making headway on those other personal issues ever since. And personal growth is best done with a clear head, not in a drunken fog.
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:47 PM
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Hope,
I appreciate this thread and all of the viewpoints here. I agree with your conclusion about habits, as I find that life, drunk or sober, is full of ups and downs. I used to drink to cope with the highs and the lows, now I have other healthy ways of dealing with the bad (exercise) and am free and healthy to enjoy the good.

I have concluded that happiness is not something within my control. It comes and goes of its own accord. Contentment,however, is something I can create for myself within my daily rituals. It is a subtle distinction, but for me an important one.

Sobriety gives me the gift of time to work on the issues you speak of. Some I’ve worked through over 2+ years, others hang about like dark clouds waiting to be addressed. But in sustained sobriety, I build up my strength and health which makes me more capable of dealing with the darkness. For me it is a process, and one that I feel will continue for the remainder of my life.

I work each day to be a better person than yesterday. Some days I hit the mark better than others. But on the off days, simply maintaining my sobriety means I continue to fight the good fight.
-bora
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:19 PM
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Hi Hope
I certainly had underlying issues that lead me to choose to drink in the beginning...but I ended up with those underlying problems and alcoholism by the end.

I needed to tackle both.

The idea that I couldn't stop drinking until I solved my underlying problems kept me drinking.

I think, instead, I couldn't start to tackle those underlying issues until I was sober.

D
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