LaFemme

I was really moved by this article and struck again and again by how mental illness parallels alcoholism. Not only in how if effects us and how we heal from it but in how it is viewed by society.

Embracing life after suicide attempt - CNN.com

wpainterw

LaFemme: This is a fine article. Thank you for sharing it. Why is mental illness considered so shameful? I can understand, although not agree with, the way society often views alcoholism (often blaming the victim exclusively for it but sometimes self righteously suggesting things like "She drove him to drink you know!") But with a psychosis, how can you possibly blame the victim, particularly with what is known about the etiology these days? As you may know, we have had two suicides in our family. It literally tore the family apart. My sister was ill for years, I suspect that her husband was thought responsible in some way, although I'm not sure about that. Anyway, she divorced him and then later took her own life. Her son did the same three years later. I honestly think that the strain of having my sister ill was a causative factor in my dad's early death, at the age of 63. And I believe that all of this turmoil induced my family to relocate to another community, away from what many may have considered a "scandal". As for me, i often, in denial, tended to blame my drinking on these sorry events, a handy rationalization I'm sure. In retrospect however I believe that my illness would have taken the same course without these developments.
Well anyway for years I wondered whether I too was psychotic but my doctors reassured me that I was merely an alcoholic and thus had no reason to worry along those lines! Actually alcoholism may be worse than something like paranoia for example, in that with the latter medication may often bring it under control. Same thing with bipolar illnesses. But you can't get rid of alcoholism merely by taking a pill! Unless you consider naltrexone a pill which does that. Maybe it does! But maybe the votes aren't all in on that one. (Hope we can avoid a debate on that in view of the extensive working over of that issue on the now closed Sinclair Method thread)
Well, anyway, despite societal attitudes, alcoholics and those with other mental illnesses (is the use of the term "other" appropriate?) have AA, other support groups and websites like SR in order to share concerns, obtain understanding and support.

W.

LaFemme

Well said Painter. I wonder what types of other parallels there are between the two illnesses. I think with mental illness, as with alcoholism, people fear it, because they don't understand it, and by not understanding it they fear it will happen to them (There but for the grace of God go I). Hence the stigma attached to both problems.

While the fact that there are groups for help and understanding, the thing I took from this article was that it is only by getting these things out into the open that people can get help. How many alcoholics what until the absolute last minute to get help because of the stigma...or maybe don't even get help at all....better to die drunk than admit one is an alcoholic.

Maybe the reason people have to "hit bottom" is because they are not only trying to deal with a disease but with the whole attitude of society towards alcoholics. After all, you aren't "normal" if you can't drink. We even say it here.

HarryB

My bipolar disorder is one of the main reasons I am an alcoholic and addict. I'd say there are a lot of similarties because people with mental illness often turn to drugs and alcohol.

Live

you know I would love to discuss this but am very busy packing to complete our move.

LOL Painter...I have a severe form of bipolar and how many times I wished it was alcohol or a pill addiction so that it could be somethimg I knew a path to deal with and it was "just" giving up the bottle.

nandm

Thank you for sharing the article.

As both a recovering alcoholic and a person with bipolar disorder I can see where some would feel that bipolar disorder and alcoholism may be very similar as similarities exist especially when it comes to the social aspects of the two diseases and how they are viewed in society.

I do have to say that I am much more comfortable sharing the fact that I am an alcoholic than I am sharing the fact that I have mental health issues. People tend to view alcoholism better than they do disorders that they are afraid due to lack of knowledge. Many people tend to be afraid of those with mental health disorders as they feel they must walk on eggshells around them or they "might go off".

Also it has been much easier to treat my alcoholism than it has been my bipolar disorder. I have been sober nearly 10 years now and have been fighting to find the right medications and treatment for my bipolar disorder nearly that full 10 years.

Alcoholism did not make or keep me suicidal but my bipolar disorder causes me to frequently fight with suicidal thoughts and plans.

I truly hope and pray that one day society will be more compassionate to those who suffer from alcoholism or mental health issues. Unfortunately, I think it is extremely hard for one to empathize with something they do not understand. Not understanding creates a current of fear of the unknown which in turn causes people to turn from and make light of those things they fear such as mental illness or alcoholism. It is easier to blame the victim rather than admit they too are vulnerable.

Again thank you for the article. I am going to post it in the mental health section as well since I believe it is well worth reading and may provide hope to those that still suffer.

wpainterw

P.S. What's interesting and educational for me is to hear these responses from folks suffering from bipolar and learn that solving the problem of getting just the right medication is not simple at all. I've heard the same thing from time to time from other folks. But there may be still a difference between bipolar and alcoholism in that, if you're bipolar, would you be told that this was a result of your "character defects" and that these might be "removed" if you went to meetings and appealed to a "higher power"? In no way am I attempting to critique AA and the success it's had with so many. But I am saying that, with alcoholism there are issues relating to change of attitude, behavior, maturing, etc. which may not be emphasized or even considered when other psychiatric illnesses are involved.
Interestingly, I do recall a counselor friend who mentioned a colleague who suggested that one way to treat a catatonic patient was to get down on the floor and yell at them to come out from under the bed! ("Stop trying to hide under there! Come out immediately and behave properly!" etc.) I'm a bit skeptical about that! Anyway, clearly that method doesn't work for alcoholics!

W.

W.

Live

people know what drinking and drunkenness looks like. They may think you have a morals problem but they do not think you are insane.

I have 2 problems...the people who do not believe in mental illness and the ones who do.

I am typing with one finger here...so being brief:
the do not believe:
grow up
get your sh!t together
pull yourself up by the bootstraps
quit taking all those dam^ed pills.
it's in your head, so use it and smarten up
knock off the malingering and be normal
many hostile remarks and a hard hearted attitude

those who believe:
just take your meds and be normal (not possible) i.e., fixed at a one time shot
those who will never trust you (as a friend, as an employee..as anything)
those who understand you are "defective"
those who will try to completely control you
those who second guess and pathologize everything you say, feel and do

these are just a few quick off the top examples.
I can see some attitudes that also apply to alcoholism.

blackstrat6

I can choose to drink or not, I can't choose to suffer my bipolar. There is NO magic pills and the side effects of what there is are pretty bad for some.

If I was only alcoholic i could choose: To not drink and have a decent job. Be able to keep that job. Not be forced to take meds or I lose my income. To be able to use my college education. To not have 8 of 10 people I meet run due to the stigma of my disability (thank you media for making bp a fear word) There are so many more things I wont go into but there is NO comparison of the 2 things.

Live

50% of all suicides are attributed to bipolar disorder.
60% of bipolar I have substance abuse issues.
How many deaths are alcohol/addiction related.

The human toll of both addiction and mental illness must be staggering!

blackstrat6

I am sorry if my last post was offending I just get so fed up with the bipolar stereotype and the truth is EVERY single bp person suffers differently. I guess thats what makes it so hard to deal with.

Black

Live

I have a close friend whose life has been ruined and marred by alcoholism...I could never understand (and still don't) how he could give up cocaine but not booze. He is so smart, witty and so much potential.
He has received his medical death sentence.

He has also paid his dues in suffering.

I would like to see more on LaFemme's original topic.

wpainterw

It's interesting that most of the discussions of mental illness thus far have related to bipolar. What about schizophrenia? That's what my sister had. And her son, who also suffered from what appeared to be a type of religious dementia, was not bipolar. Yet they suffered just as much, no doubt were misunderstood just as much, looked down on just as much.
But let me get back to the main issue raised by this thread. What explains the attitudes of much of society towards those who are mentally ill and those who are alcoholic? One post in this thread suggested that, unlike the mentally ill, an alcoholic can "just stop" drinking. I submit that this is the traditional view. "It's his fault. He started to drink and now he can just stop." All I can do at this point is speak from personal experience. Oh how I wanted to stop! And stop for good! Was I weak? Did I lack willpower? That's what most folks in society probably believe. I finally did stop, hopefully for good, but I needed a lot of help to do that. Secondly, after alcoholism progresses for awhile and the chemistry switches around it becomes nearly impossible for an alcoholic to stop without a lot of treatment and help. Some can do it. But many cannot. At this point it comes very close to being a mental illness, particularly if there have been physical changes in the brain.
Now as to the differing social attitudes. It is true that people tend to "fear" the mentally ill and, as to the alcoholic, not "fear" that person as much as look down on him or her, pity the person, ridicule him, call him or her "good for nothing", etc. The fear of the mentally ill goes way back in history. I think LaFemme is right when she says that much of it is due to misunderstanding. But it may be more than that. In more primitive cultures the mentally ill were sometimes thought to be possessed, either by the devil or in some cases, by some divinity. If the former, then this justified fear. If the latter, then perhaps some form of worship. In any case, it invoked the supernatural. Later on, in less superstitious times they were confined in "asylums" (to which people were sometimes admitted to view them like animals in a zoo), kept in restraints and treated much like prisoners. And where they were not in asylums, romantic novels, such as Jane Eyre, often had them concealed in attics, where all one could hear was the rattling of chains and moans in midnight hours. They were feared since "What might happen if Aunt Jane manages to escape!" And even if she didn't she might manage to burn the mansion down!. Fear!
The alcoholic, on the other hand, was viewed as a weak willed fellow who was often found there in the gutter. "Harmless drunk," they might say, and toss him a shilling. "He only brought it on himself. He'll go now and spend it all on drink."
These attitudes persist today in modified form, and there is tremendous hypocrisy and continued misunderstanding.

W

LaFemme

I know very little about bipolar. I linked the story because so much of what the author said resonated with my experiences with alcoholism..both personally and what I read here.

Stigma against people who area different is pervasive in society...my sister had seizures...anyone care to know what kind of discrimination someone who has that suffers from? This young woman who wrote the article, spoke of shining a light on the disease, she felt that by helping others with similar problems she ultimately helped herself. As she said, there is no cure for bipolar only ways to live with it. I view recovery as a remission of the disease, which is still not a cure. Many people with mental health issues commit suicide, same for alcoholics. So yes, I think there are similarities.