The post-drinking pile-on
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 69
The post-drinking pile-on
One thing I've been confronting of late, several months in, is that beyond my own sense of responsibility and regret for the toll my drinking took on others, certain others in my life are feeling more comfortable talking to me about it. To a certain extent I think that's fine and appropriate and I'm glad to be able to be in a position to accept that and work towards reconciliation. However, a few people have exhibited a tendency to kind of pile on a bit. References to contentious events of the past suddenly get revisited with the responsibility for the discord being placed squarely in my court - all because I drank regularly, and therefore was responsible for everything negative. At first, I was kind of taking this, but have now started to realize that, while my drinking was clearly an issue, I was still lucid and functional the vast majority of the time and many past events that I perceived to be caused by others really were!
I think the first stage of sobriety can be hard, in part, because of shame. It can be tempting to go back to escape the shame - ironically. There is a self-hating element, a "how did I let that happen?" feeling.
I think it's important not to completely discard the person that was the drinker - not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Surely we all had some positive relationships, some successes, some tender moments, etc. throughout our drinking careers. Surely we had arguments we deserved to win, got in fights we didn't start, made peace when we didn't have to.
In the course of being repentant and working towards an addiction-free today and tomorrow, which often means letting go of the old us, I find it important to stick up for the old us from time to time. After all, that person is the one that found the strength to change.
I think the first stage of sobriety can be hard, in part, because of shame. It can be tempting to go back to escape the shame - ironically. There is a self-hating element, a "how did I let that happen?" feeling.
I think it's important not to completely discard the person that was the drinker - not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Surely we all had some positive relationships, some successes, some tender moments, etc. throughout our drinking careers. Surely we had arguments we deserved to win, got in fights we didn't start, made peace when we didn't have to.
In the course of being repentant and working towards an addiction-free today and tomorrow, which often means letting go of the old us, I find it important to stick up for the old us from time to time. After all, that person is the one that found the strength to change.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 21
I find it important to stick up for the old us from time to time. After all, that person is the one that found the strength to change.
I remain proud that I sought the help myself and wasn't forced to get it!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
Weeelll...
In my case I simply don't remember much of the final few years so basically what anyone tells me happened is as valid as anyone else's version.
I understand too that what might be in the past for me might still be ongoing with someone else.
I also know tho I wasn't being the best me I could be - far from it.
I don't see how I could argue that point, really.
All that being said, I don't believe alcoholism is a moral or some kind of degeneracy issue.
I was suffering from an active addiction...I got better.
I've come a long way, and I'm justifiably proud of that.
I own my mistakes...but I'm making amends and atoning for them too...everyday - I don't see anyone could ask more of any of us.
D
In my case I simply don't remember much of the final few years so basically what anyone tells me happened is as valid as anyone else's version.
I understand too that what might be in the past for me might still be ongoing with someone else.
I also know tho I wasn't being the best me I could be - far from it.
I don't see how I could argue that point, really.
All that being said, I don't believe alcoholism is a moral or some kind of degeneracy issue.
I was suffering from an active addiction...I got better.
I've come a long way, and I'm justifiably proud of that.
I own my mistakes...but I'm making amends and atoning for them too...everyday - I don't see anyone could ask more of any of us.
D
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,934
Thanks for the topic. I was begining to think I was the only one that felt this way. I've been going to AA and making amends as apporpriate. However, my drinking problem is not to blame for everything! I find that making amends to my wife is difficult. I'm certainly sorry and don't have any problem telling her that. But we have been married for 20+ years, and she didn't realize I had a drinking problem until the very end. Now, it's like everything is my fault, including global warming and poverty and hunger in the third world. I'm willing take blame for 50, heck even 80 - 90% of the issues in our long marriage, but she see's it as 100%. I bit my tongue a lot.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
We can't control other people's perceptions of us. Whether they are "accurate" or not, it is their perception, and defending yourself gets old pretty quick.
I try to acknowledge where I was wrong, make amends where I can, and let the rest go. If others want to carry around the burden of their own resentments, that's their business. You don't have to be a punching bag, but you CAN walk away from it.
One of the suggestions in the Big Book is that when other people wrong us, we try to look at them as sick and suffering people, too. ALL human beings have their issues and people who are chronically angry and unhappy suffer a lot.
I try to acknowledge where I was wrong, make amends where I can, and let the rest go. If others want to carry around the burden of their own resentments, that's their business. You don't have to be a punching bag, but you CAN walk away from it.
One of the suggestions in the Big Book is that when other people wrong us, we try to look at them as sick and suffering people, too. ALL human beings have their issues and people who are chronically angry and unhappy suffer a lot.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,505
I agree that early sobriety is a really difficult time. For me, I felt so much shame and guilt for what I had become and how I had hurt my family. In fact, this shame kept me caught up in the cycle of addiction for a lot longer than it should have.
At some point, I realized that people were not going to understand what I had gone through and I had to accept that. All I could do was to continue on my recovery journey. All I could do was to apologize and move forward. For me, I could not keep negative people in my life. It would not have worked.
At some point, I realized that people were not going to understand what I had gone through and I had to accept that. All I could do was to continue on my recovery journey. All I could do was to apologize and move forward. For me, I could not keep negative people in my life. It would not have worked.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Well for me, I wasn't a total a-hole to the wife when I was drinking, and I still ran a pretty tight ship with my duties around the house and our finances, because it made it easier for me to drink. So I haven't got any guilt thrown my way in that regard.
That being said, I have a buddy that I coach with, and had drank with in the past come to me and say, "It sucks that you quit drinking, when you were over the other night sober, (he was about 12 beers in at the time), you were much harder to argue with." Now we argue back an forth all of the time regarding different schemes and coaching philosophies, but I almost took the comment as a compliment, because I was in my right mind, my argument on the subject was correct, and I got my point across. I always used to want to show how alcohol didn't affect me, and how I could whup any sober guy mentally and physically when I was loaded, now I like the fact that I have the upperhand!
As far as taking blame for things that I did while drunk, I had 2 methods when I was still drinking, the first one, which was earlier in my drinking career was apologize, apologize, apologize, and then hope times heals almost all wounds. The second one I used later in my drinking career, which was don't do anything you need to apologize for, and if by chance I screwed that up I went back to my first method.
Now in sobriety if I were being blamed for things that were not really caused by my drinking, I think I would seriously question them, unless my relationship with the person making the accusations was on the rocks and needed serious repair. We will all occassionally do stupid stuff, drunk or sober, and if it is really my fault I have no problem admitting and trying to make it right, but if it is really not something I did or caused I have no problem standing up for myself......unless the wife is in one of those moods, then I go back to method number one again.
That being said, I have a buddy that I coach with, and had drank with in the past come to me and say, "It sucks that you quit drinking, when you were over the other night sober, (he was about 12 beers in at the time), you were much harder to argue with." Now we argue back an forth all of the time regarding different schemes and coaching philosophies, but I almost took the comment as a compliment, because I was in my right mind, my argument on the subject was correct, and I got my point across. I always used to want to show how alcohol didn't affect me, and how I could whup any sober guy mentally and physically when I was loaded, now I like the fact that I have the upperhand!
As far as taking blame for things that I did while drunk, I had 2 methods when I was still drinking, the first one, which was earlier in my drinking career was apologize, apologize, apologize, and then hope times heals almost all wounds. The second one I used later in my drinking career, which was don't do anything you need to apologize for, and if by chance I screwed that up I went back to my first method.
Now in sobriety if I were being blamed for things that were not really caused by my drinking, I think I would seriously question them, unless my relationship with the person making the accusations was on the rocks and needed serious repair. We will all occassionally do stupid stuff, drunk or sober, and if it is really my fault I have no problem admitting and trying to make it right, but if it is really not something I did or caused I have no problem standing up for myself......unless the wife is in one of those moods, then I go back to method number one again.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Yea... Just because you were addicted to alcohol doesn't invalidate your life and accomplishments so far... Though in early sobriety it was easy to fall into that line of thinking... Clean up your side of the street, treat people right, be humble and expect nothing from others .... You will come to terms.
Practice Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KC missouri
Posts: 885
In all phases of my life I had to stop caring what people think friends or whoever we call everyone idiots all day at work and on the road, but suddenly I care if they think I am drunk or not. You have to do whats best for you.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
One of the things that's served me well in recovery so far is practicing giving the forgiveness to others that I want for myself. For me to lament the treatment I get from others is really just more of the same old selfishness and self-centeredness that got me into trouble in the first place.
Who am I to judge others - especially given the life I've led, the people I've ignored, the people I've not forgiven. I don't expect the people I've dished guilt, shame and what have you to, to be any better in their treatment of me than I was and am of theirs.
That old line: We reap what we sow comes to mind. Whether someone is treating me unjustly now or not it none of my business. My "job" is to be as loving, kind, helpful, and forgiving of them as I want them to be of me. Since I generally can't make people treat me the way I want them to treat me, I work on being content with how I'm treated in spite of whether I believe it's fair or warranted. I found, the further I dug into my inventory and began working on amends, that I did a whole lot more harm than I thought I did. It's not up to me to determine when and how quickly those wounds should heal. When it gets right down to it, I've learned to see others as being perhaps as wounded as I was - they're doing the best they can with what they have.
Who am I to judge others - especially given the life I've led, the people I've ignored, the people I've not forgiven. I don't expect the people I've dished guilt, shame and what have you to, to be any better in their treatment of me than I was and am of theirs.
That old line: We reap what we sow comes to mind. Whether someone is treating me unjustly now or not it none of my business. My "job" is to be as loving, kind, helpful, and forgiving of them as I want them to be of me. Since I generally can't make people treat me the way I want them to treat me, I work on being content with how I'm treated in spite of whether I believe it's fair or warranted. I found, the further I dug into my inventory and began working on amends, that I did a whole lot more harm than I thought I did. It's not up to me to determine when and how quickly those wounds should heal. When it gets right down to it, I've learned to see others as being perhaps as wounded as I was - they're doing the best they can with what they have.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 69
Failing to be self-protective and defensive when a broad label is applied to the past can be damaging to oneself and to a relationship, in my opinion. It can cause resentment and an irreparable re-writing of the past. Of course we should be cognizant of other peoples own issues, aware of where they are coming from, sensitive to their feelings, etc., and never fail to acknowledge that drinking was an issue. However, I strongly believe that progress is built, in part, on recognizing inner strengths, not on taking the persona of being some dumb, sick puppy. That's one of my big objections to AA - it relies, in my opinion, too heavily on the perception of being permanently ill.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
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Alcoholism is a disease, not a character defect.
It's very difficult for others to understand addiction, and that's why I choose to not talk about my addiction outside of SR.
And, I do believe that recovery is a life-long process, a way of living.
It's very difficult for others to understand addiction, and that's why I choose to not talk about my addiction outside of SR.
And, I do believe that recovery is a life-long process, a way of living.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by NoHo 
That's one of my big objections to AA - it relies, in my opinion, too heavily on the perception of being permanently ill.
If what you're doing is working well for you (in life and in recovery) then keep doing it. If it's not, and you're running into "issues" that still bother you, it's your choice to handle them as you see fit or to consider changing yourself. There's a line in AA that I can only assume you're thinking of: Our problems, we think, are of our own making. There's a WHOLE lot more to that than the casual assumption that "we're ill and will always stay that way." It seemed to me you were having "issues" with people "piling on." Perhaps I misunderstood.
regardless.... best of luck to you and I hope you find your peace
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Originally Posted by DayTrader
Actually it's says, over and over and over, the exact opposite. Not once in any of the literature, the steps, or anywhere I've ever seen "the program" written does it say anything other than being transformed, rocketing into a new dimension, changed, new life, reborn, etc. The whole program is built around having a life-changing spiritual awakening and emerging as a new person.
If what you're doing is working well for you (in life and in recovery) then keep doing it. If it's not, and you're running into "issues" that still bother you, it's your choice to handle them as you see fit or to consider changing yourself. There's a line in AA that I can only assume you're thinking of: Our problems, we think, are of our own making. There's a WHOLE lot more to that than the casual assumption that "we're ill and will always stay that way." It seemed to me you were having "issues" with people "piling on." Perhaps I misunderstood.
regardless.... best of luck to you and I hope you find your peace
If what you're doing is working well for you (in life and in recovery) then keep doing it. If it's not, and you're running into "issues" that still bother you, it's your choice to handle them as you see fit or to consider changing yourself. There's a line in AA that I can only assume you're thinking of: Our problems, we think, are of our own making. There's a WHOLE lot more to that than the casual assumption that "we're ill and will always stay that way." It seemed to me you were having "issues" with people "piling on." Perhaps I misunderstood.
regardless.... best of luck to you and I hope you find your peace
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by NoHo
However, I strongly believe that progress is built, in part, on recognizing inner strengths, not on taking the persona of being some dumb, sick puppy. That's one of my big objections to AA - it relies, in my opinion, too heavily on the perception of being permanently ill.
I still, at times, struggle with the idea that "we were sick and could not manage our own lives..." What does that mean, really? I got up in the morning, I went work, had dinner with the family, did some chores around the house... I have many outside interests which involve practice and skill... So in many outwardly and worldly ways... I managed fine, thank you very much!
Ahhh... but my spiritual life was sick and a bit twisted... and that "hole in the soul" kept getting bigger... I wasn't managing that too well....
I struggled with some of the issues that you bring up. I have now reconciled them. It took a fearless and searching moral inventory to get there... The inventory is not about... "do you have a job, a car, a spouse, are you talented?... it's more about things like, well, for me.... pride, envy... stuff like that.
So I have not shut the door on my past, nor do I wish to forget... I did a lot of good things, for myself, my family, friends... the mark I have left up until now is not all bad... I'll clean up the stuff that I am not too proud of as I go forward in my amends... And, hopefully, learn from them.
That's my experience... What you are talking about resonates with me. I am very happy in AA, perhaps it's not for you, but I thought I would share part of my journey that applied to your post.
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