stanleyhouse

A lot of people mention AA and say they like AA and what it has to offer even though they cannot "get into" the HP. Does it strike anybody else funny that in a room full of strangers, with their own agendas, and levels of sickness that God, who loves you unconditionally, is the one not to be trusted?
SH

Harry01854

Stanley, I can only speak for myself. I was brought up as a Catholic and the God I knew was a punishing God. Not a kind of God I really wanted to believe in so naturally I wasn't going to trust Him. The first couple of times I was around AA I cringed when God was mentioned. This time when I came back I still cringed. But for some reason I did believe that I needed to believe in and trust in something that is Greater than me. What helped me a lot is the saying, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"

And yes, now I believe in God that has unconditional love and loves and cares about me no matter what. A God I can depend and rely on. A God that has never failed me.

Thanks,

Harry

LaFemme

I have no personal problem with the HP aspect of AA but it literally floors me that AA swears up and down it isn't religious ...sorry but people in AA seem to talk more about HP than booze...just saying.

ElegantlyWasted

Think you're chain of logic is a little skewed? Not sure how you built up to " God is not tob be trusted". I think AA is a good place to get sober regardless of HP buy in, but I believe some sort of working concept that implies a reality larger the that of the egocentric addictive mindset does add a lot of value.

stanleyhouse

I am so glad you found a loving God. I grew up knowing God in a church through sermon and brunches and gossip. Never did I understand how that was going to bring me closer to God.
Through my life I have always trusted in God, but not until my deepest depths of despair did i ask him for help and receive hope. Since then not a day goes by I don't feel his presence.
SH

Draciack

It may be a misunderstanding with terms. AA is a spiritual program, meaning individuals are encouraged to find their own conception of a higher power. Religion seems to imply organized, structured beliefs about higher powers...for instance, Roman Catholicism or Judaism.

As far as the original topic, I don't know, Stanley. Honestly, someone's relationship or lack thereof with a higher power is their business and none of mine.

ElegantlyWasted

I hear you Stanley. Went to Cathloic school as a Protestant. The Jesuit Brothers explained that Cathloics believed in transsubstantiation and Protestants in Consubstantiation, and that as a Protestant I should not take communion at the required Masses, as I didn't believe that the communal waffer and wind physically changed into the body and blood of "Christ". Hmmm... An institution created by God, run by man (who sins and is imperfect). To me it makes naked capitalism w a decent rule of law look tame by comparison. Jessies were great educators though, aside from being pedantic with the religious stuff....

stanleyhouse

I guess my logic, and it probably makes no sense, is that some people go into AA with this blind trust and allow strangers to guide them. If they can do that, I wonder what their history with God was like versus the people in their lives.
SH

Draciack

Aaah, no, no, you're making perfect sense, Stanley

I've never liked the idea of blind trust either. Just 'cause someone has long-term sobriety doesn't mean they're healthy individuals. It's tough too because AA has a whole lot of different personalities and even within the meetings there are people who have worked the Steps, not worked the Steps, two-steppers... I sometimes wish someone would just give me the manual for awesomely awesome sobriety LOL.

Who to trust and who to believe?

No clue but if you find an answer, please let me know

RobertHugh

I wish this were true, in my experience. Because finding a higher power is about the solution, not the problem (booze). Not sure what good talking about booze is, other than qualifying the newcomer.

My experience with AA, though, is it's not about HP or booze, but about sick cats, broken down cars, and persistent allergies.

This is why one meeting I attend each week does not allow talk about personal problems, or your drinking history. You get cut off, politely, and are encouraged to talk privately with someone afterwards. They simply believe that lives are at stake, and if we are not sharing the solution, people may die.

Regarding the original post, most people don't believe in what they can't see or feel. I believe Stanleyhouse might be extending his unequivocal belief in the existence of "God" to others, and he's understandably baffled that they wouldn't trust it.

I found it much easier to trust creatures I could feel and touch early on than some unknown, spiritual entity.

I did not find my higher power. I dismantled and removed the stuff blocking me from It. By doing a thorough moral inventory and sharing it with another human being, I cleared a path where I could be relieved of the obsession to drink and restored to sanity. That feeling, or psychic change, was enough for me to do a 6th and 7th step, although I still had some misgivings. But my willingness allowed me to say the words, and take the action. I then began feeling compelled to talk about my experience-- which is completely against my nature before this-- I loathed public speaking, particularly about a topic that was so intangible. But I now go to meetings and on speaking commitments where I talk only about my experience with the steps, and how I feel now.

keithj

The Big Book is a pretty awesome manual, full of specific and precise directions for permanent sobriety. Awesomely awesome 4th dimension stuff.

I've found that asking the question, "Have you had a spiritual awakening as the result of the Steps?" will clear out about 95% of the folks that you probably shouldn't trust your life to in the first place.

stanleyhouse

Draciack
I don't know the answer for everyone but when I find some time I'll share what's working for me. Thanks for not thinking I'm looney.
SH

DayTrader

I get a chuckle each time I read someone say they can't work AA because the steps require a Higher Power.....then they go on to say how this site, their therapist, or some support group is really helping them a lot -- thus making this site, their therapist, or some support group a power greater than them (pssst....a "higher power")

... little do they know, they just the 2nd step and didn't even know it.

Supercrew

Did it ever occur to some of you that some people don't believe in God, or a higher power?

Just sayin...

Supercrew

Just because you get help or support from someone doesn't mean that it is a power greater than them. It is just help. I find it funny that it is common practice here to talk negatively about people's beliefs and recovery methods if it isn't AA.

Dee74

I think we're getting off the track here.

I'm not in AA and I don't particularly subscribe to the HP concept as per the BB...so I didn't post here, because I figure I haven't got a lot to add that will be useful for others.

It's not a bad practice to get into.

D

LexieCat

I don't specifically believe in a personal God, and I know die-hard atheists who have been able to reconcile their beliefs with the notion of a higher power.

There are many powers greater than ourselves. Natural laws of physics are greater than us.

Basically, the idea of a higher power is intended, I believe, to get us out of the way of our own recovery. Quit the justifying, rationalizing, excuse-making, self-pitying way we view ourselves in relation to the world and other people.

That's the way I look at it for right now, anyway, and my concept of my higher power is subject to change as I grow in understanding. When I am aligned with reality--which includes acceptance of that which I cannot control and should not try to control--I am at peace.

stanleyhouse

Supercrew
I like your topic so I'm going to start a new thread.

RobertHugh

It certainly occurred to Bill Wilson when he wrote the Big Book. There's this whole chapter entitled "We Agnostics." It's a good read for the non-believer.

Belief in God is not a requirement to work the steps of AA. Never has been.

Truth is, I still don't know what I believe in. One thing I was sure of: I was powerless over alcohol. Not power-challenged, power-compromised...powerLESS. I was always going to drink. So I was pretty willing to try anything to survive.

I fully understand that alot of people don't subscribe to this sort of absolute thinking. That's fine-- I didn't for years.

But, as laid out in the text book, AA begins with absolute powerlessness. So it follows that we try to connect with power that can solve our problem, otherwise we continue to drink and die.

If you don't identify with that sort of powerlessness, if there is still belief that self control can help, I completely understand why you wouldn't seek a higher power with desperation.

wpainterw

I believe in and trust in God but I confess that this is the God of my own understanding, which, being human, is fallible. I do not know whether my understanding of my God is like your understanding of your God, nor need I know. And it would be presumptuous for me to think that my belief is in any way superior to yours or to any other person's belief. But this I do know, for I have seen it with my own eyes. I have seen many persons, having many different beliefs about their "Higher Power", even agnostics and atheists, achieve sobriety. My Higher Power has blessed me with nearly 22 years of that. So let us hope that other alcoholics, each with his or her belief in their higher power achieve sobriety. I have put up a home page on this issue accessible in the left margin of this message.

Wpainterw