Dee74

Hi Jabba

I think every one of us has tried moderation - noone really wants to be different, noone really wants to have to change.

I have 20 years that says it didn't work for me.

But one thing hit me in your post...given what your wife said to you - why is drinking still that important to you? Why can't you just give it up completely?

D

smacked

This forum promotes abstinence from drugs and alcohol, and it's actually against forum rules to promote drinking or drug use.. for safety of the members who are sometimes fragile and working very hard on their new sober lives.

I'm sure there's a forum out there for drinkers.

At this time, there is not a supportive section here for people to continue drinking. For many of us, drinking has become a life or death battle.. physically, or emotionally, both.. or otherwise.

I wish you luck with whatever you do!

I know my life became much less complicated when I could just let it go..

Chakra

Good to see you again smacked. Its been a few days.

Dee74

There no debate about what this site is about...

As long as everyone follows our rules, including rule two, which says in part

anyone is welcome to participate here.

This rule has not been broken here IMO.

Moderation was part of my journey too.

Coming here helped me face up to how untenable that was, and I'm glad for it. I'd hate to deny someone else that opportunity.

back to Jabba...
D

LexieCat

I can speak as a long-term member of MM. Matter of fact, I still consider myself a member--we have a subgroup called MMAbsers, which is for people who started out trying to achieve moderation in our drinking, and found that the best course is to abstain. I, like several other people in that group, am in AA as well. Others are in SMART, LifeRing, Women for Sobriety, or other support groups. Some do it on their own.

Now, my own opinion of moderation is that it CAN work for SOME people who maybe aren't that far along in their drinking problem, or who perhaps temporarily picked up the "habit" during a bout with divorce, grief, or some other external situation.

HOWEVER, in the four and a half years I participated in MM, with moderation as my goal, I only encountered a handful of people who were able to successfully moderate, long term. Most struggle with alcohol, more or less, and many of us found that over time our drinking did continue to get worse.

I think MM has a good program for moderate drinking IF you are one who is capable of doing it. The big caveat is that by the time most people are concerned enough to take action on a drinking problem, they are already past the point of being able to successfully moderate their drinking.

Audrey Kishline was a tragic case. She left MM because she was honest enough to realize the best course for her was to abstain. She was a member of AA when she had the fatal crash that killed two other people. As we all know, not everyone in AA stays sober, either. Many relapse, with tragic results. That's what happened to her.

I stick around MM (which is mostly an online group, with a few face-to-face groups here and there) for a couple of reasons. First, I made good friends there, many of whom I keep in touch with. Some have gotten sober. A couple successfully moderate. Many still struggle with the booze. I also stick around, though, because a lot of people in MM somehow feel like they have "failed" when they are unable to moderate their drinking. I like to be there to tell them it isn't failure to admit that you can't drink like a "normal" person, and that the REAL victory is giving up a losing battle and doing something better with your life than counting and measuring your drinks and figuring out which days you are going to have them.

I don't kid myself that I can moderate my drinking, but it was something I had to try in order to convince myself that I couldn't drink. It takes what it takes, for each of us. I do wish I hadn't carried on the "experiment" as long as I did, but it's how I got sober.

wichitalineman

Hi Jabba,

Welcome to SR! You'll find lots of kind folks here and lots of support.

I just wanted to throw out there that when I quit drinking 100%, and I stopped trying to moderate my drinking and made total abstinence my priority, my life turned around in a huge, huge way. I am _extremely_ challenged to think of one single thing that has ever happened, or one single decision that I have ever made I should say, that has had such a huge, positive impact, and as _immediate_, as quitting drinking has had. Quitting drinking has completely reinvented my game: I am 100% present in all of my relationships, I have never felt better, never looked better, and never been as focused and in tune as I am on this day.

I just wanted to take a moment and advertise some of those positive things that happened when I made the switch. The positive benefits that have come with quitting drinking (all of the above, and so much more) _completely_ obliterate the negatives (not spending truckloads of money in bars, not having hangovers more frequently than I have mornings) and the results simply speak for themselves.

Whatever path you choose, I wish you nothing but happiness and success. Take care!

Jabbadabutt

I didn't think that the moderation experiment was going to go over too well with some people here. I expected some flak....and can roll with it. However I do want to point out that I never said I necessarily support drinking or encourage it but as was noted by another member, many of us started off trying to moderate things before realizing the best way. I too will perhaps find that path.

If only BP could shut off the leak in an instant (rather than have it sorta leak for two months) we ALL would be in a better position wouldn't we. Maybe a poor analogy but it was what I first thought of.

Many feel that it is easy as shutting off a switch in our heads to stop....I'm sure not many here thought it was that simple or found it that simple.

I talked about it with my wife last night and my goal right now is to not drink. I am on Day 3 and FEEL GREAT. I have to say that the moderation appraoch right now is only to make or very few social situations run smoother (monthly wine and pizza night with neighbors - which only usually means one to two glasses of wine) for us ......but that may be revised to NO drinking if determined at that time....right now the goal is NONE. My goal is 10 days right now (even though my goal is really one day at a time) until I have to re-evaluate that social situation moderation thing........

I just wish my wife could be a little more supportive of this latest attempt...but as said before once you break someone's trust...it is SO HARD to get it back.....but I really mean it that it will be different this time.

What do they say?? Scared straight?? She doesn't buy it.....but I am terrified of the alternative.

artsoul

I'm really glad you're feeling so good at 3 days sober. Taking it a day at a time really helped me, especially the first several days. Those days seemed to go by SO slowly for me!

The moderation thing is always a hot topic for alcoholics, so don't take it personally. I think it's because a lot of us tried so hard to control our drinking and it just prolonged the agony. It sounds like you're being honest and are willing to consider total abstinence if you have to. I don't think anyone could ask for more.

For me, it's not about following anyone's rules or expectations. The reason I wouldn't want to drink socially (even if I could) is because I don't want to be bothered with thoughts of alcohol anymore. Drinking a few glasses of wine on special occasions would involve having to think about when, where, and how much I could have. I'd be asking myself all those typical questions: Am I enjoying this too much? Can I have a third glass? How far apart should I space my drinks? Is it OK to drink 2 nights in a row? What about when I just feel like having a drink by myself? When is the next time I can justify a couple of drinks? On and on.......

It's taken me 3 months to get rid of those thoughts, and it's very freeing to be able to enjoy a meal or the company of friends without having them go through my mind. It's ironic in a way: a few months ago I would have given anything to drink socially. Now that I'm feeling more comfortable sober, it's not appealing anymore. Who woulda thunk it? Not me.

smacked

Totally agree! Jabba, I didn't mean to say you weren't welcome here.. of course that's not true. Just when you mentioned not finding a moderation section of this website, I figured there might be other sites that support it, as it's against the rules to do it here.

I KNOW you'll find lots of great stuff here.

Jabbadabutt

No problem and thanks for the support. I will see how it goes but I can only do it one day at a time......the alternative.......well we know it sucks.

hotshot

To be honest I did not read everything everybody wrote. My feelin is that if ya drink at all it alters your concious thoughts. Thus you are not able to make rational decisions, Just my two cents. I know from experience . I tried the moderation and it might work for a bit. But there will be a time when the irrational thoughts put ya on a trip you do not wanna go on...............Been on so many of those trips I could be a tour guide............Wish that were funny and it kinda is now that I'm not drinkin...Gets very sad when I am drunk.......Ok I am leavin the pulpit

LaFemme

I never really tried moderation, but I faiped at sobriety many, many times. Everyone journey is different and I wish you buckets of luck on yours. I wish you and your wife the best as well.

Keep us posted on your journey...and may the force be with you;-) (couldn't resist;-)

LexieCat

I actually had to sign off the "big" MM moderation list. I run the "Abs Chat" for people who are abstaining from alcohol, but I won't go to the regular "moderation chat". I have a healthy fear that if I hear people cheering each other on with their moderation efforts, I might somehow, some way, be susceptible to the niggling thought that MAYBE, if I tried it ONE MORE TIME....

I tried it enough, I am thoroughly convinced I can never drink normally and should never try. I'm done with it. But moderation groups and chats are what I consider to be slippery places for me, so I stay out of it.

Jabba, I would like for you to do one thing, so far as the moderation experiment goes. Stay VERY HONEST with yourself. You can only tweak so many things, and if you repeatedly wind up in the same place, or worse, remember that some of us simply cannot control our drinking in a way that makes it safe to consume alcohol. It's not some kind of failure of will or intelligence. There's no more shame in it than being someone who needs glasses to see and can't "will" yourself to see without them.

On the list of things that are important in life, the ability to have a drink when you want to isn't a biggie. And if it is, that's all the more reason to quit.

CJ1

Hey Jabba. It is a fact that some people have had success with moderation. For me I've tried it oh so many endless times. You can take a wild guess where just that 1-2 drinks always led to for me. That being said it doesn't mean you won't be successful, but as Lexie said you need to be very honest with yourself if you take that approach.

Jabbadabutt

Thanks everyone for the comments and support. It is now Day 6 and going strong.

I will say that after the first two days (coming out of the fog) I feel great now and use that feeling to strive to not fall backwards and feel crappy again. My goal is to not allow myself to feel like I want to drink, at all costs. I have SOOOO much to lose right now. My wife is putting up with me right now as we will have out of town guests for a week but she said that she will 'pick the discussion up' shortly after they leave town again...and she 'has not forgotten things'. I never really expected her to have forgotten or wanted to drop the issue....nor do I need her to because I could use the reminder every now and them of what a dummie I was......however, she wants me to seek counseling (which i am honestly not comfortable with at all and practically get physically ill with the thought of going) and I want to try it again 'on my own' with the support of her, myself, and SR type boards and the HUGE weight of 'one last time and i'm cooked' mantra. She is skeptical that this will work this time because I have tried it before with a failure.....but I TRUELY feel it is different this time.....'cause I realize that my marriage is held together by dental floss right now and me not getting drunk depends on it. I feel I just need to prove it to her and not get drunk....however....we also need to work on some other issues that got juiced up because of my drinking and it is hard to try to work on those issues when you have this drinking thing over your head. I would LOVE some support from her right now but all I get is dirty looks and a look of mistrust and shame. I know it is a lot to ask for from her right now.....but support certainly helps......

My wife claims that she supported me last time I tried....I asked how?.....and she said that every now and again she asked how I wa doing with 'things'.....I would always say good....and we moved on. It just didn't really seem genuine and I never got that 'good job' support I need. It is a fine line between being a wife and being a parent to a recovering drunk. I do not need a parent......I need a wife.

I have done it before (got sober) with good success but every time I got too comfortable to the point where I could handle a drink with dinner or friends......but then the one drink with dinner becomes every night.....then it builds to a blow out where I have way too many. My wife saw it coming this last time and actually so did I - from a mile away. The train was coming down the tracks and I couldn't move out of the way. I usually get into trouble when I mix in vodka with my beer and it works too fast too hard.....and I fall.

I am working hard on getting 'life' back on track. It has been 'off' for a year or two and needs some attention. I do not expect rose petals and bunnies......but I strive to find happiness in the little things....even if life sucks at times.

LaFemme

Hey Jabba! Congrats on day 6:-)

As someone who is doing recovery without "professional" help I can understand not being comfortable with therapy. I think the trap a lot of people fall into when they do "recovery" on their own is that they think that quitting drinking is all that is necessary. While I don't follow a "program" I agree with a lot of the concepts, that we need to work on ourselves actively, that helping others is a way of helping ourselves, that sort of thing.

Because I am doing it on my own, I have to make my own plan and then make myself stick to it. SR helps, but that doesn't change the fact that I have to do the work. So if you do want to go it alone, come up with steps you are going to take to make the changes necessary to get sober.

I'm not married, but from what I have seen here, you can't get sober to please a spouse, you have to do it for yourself. Don't use your perception of her lack of support as an excuse to drink, she is going through her own issues in dealing with a spouse that abuses alcohol. I might not be married but I grew up as the child of an alcoholic so on a certain level I can see where she is coming from.

Keep us posted and keep up the good work.

Jabbadabutt

Thanks LaFemme. I understand what you mean about the plan........Right now I do not have much of a plan but to not f**k it up right now. Seems simplistic but for NOW....it's working.

I know I can never go to the point of getting drunk again....not with her....not alone (cause I found out how that can backfire). More on my plan later...once I come up with one.

Harry01854

I agree with LaFemme, don't use your wife as an excuse to go back to drinking. You can get a lot of support here but as LaFemme stated, you need a plan to make changes of yourself. I found I needed to start from the inside, for it is an inside job. If you need any help in knowing just what needs to be changed, ask for help here. Many people can give their own experience on what worked for them.

You wife may come around in time. How much time it will take is up to you really. Once she sees that this time you mean it and sees that you are making changes, her trust in you will grow.

I noticed in a post to Frank Barone today you mentioned trudge. Well I was often reminded not to speed in the trudging zone.

Take care,

Harry

Jabbadabutt

Thanks. I do not plan to use my wife as an excuse (as I have done in the past) but plan on taking control of it by myself/for myself and making the decisions on my own. Yes, I agree, it is a 'trudging' along right now although I think to loved ones they want a switch to shut off and everything to magically go back to happy land they were once before. It is a journey not a race, but it is hard when the onlookers want to see you cross the finish line sooner than later.

Jabbadabutt

Hey all, Day 7 and looking good. Things are about the same with the wife, she seems to go through moods of resentment to acceptance to contentment, sort of like me I suppose and it has been a little bit of walking on eggshells lately....but I expected that. If she only knew how serious I am this time about getting back on track....I know...I know....I could just tell her, but as I said my words mean very little to her right now, so I will just deal. I'll tell you, based on the how bad I f**d up last week and my new found effort to make it riht in my life, these past 7 days have been a breeze to stay sober. I am a very dedicated and hard working person....when I put my mind to it...and this time I am (unlike past times). In the past I seemed to mostly do it for someone else (to appease them) and think in the back of my head that I will just need to be sucessful long enough for the dust to settle then I could sneak back into drinking here and there. But this time I know I can not do it that way and know it will not work out if I do. I know for a fact that it will end up bad, so I am making the change for ME this time first, everyone else second. My life depends upon it.