Supercrew

So did I, sounds like something I might have wrote...don't feel bad about it.

I attended about 5 or 6 different meetings in my area, some were real small with just 4 or 5 people, and that was tough because I wasn't admitting to having a problem at the time, and I wasn't willing to talk. I found one that I ended up attending the most, and there were about 30-40 people there everyday at noon. It was very low key with alot of different personalities, and alot of court ordered people which made the meetings even more interesting watching the newbies. I probabaly made more out of the religious aspect of it because I wasn't looking at the big picture. Good luck!

lucyinthesky3

Yeah, that is my only turn off from NA too. I would call myself spiritual but I don't personally really believe in a personal deity or a god. Even though I've been told by tons of people that your higher power can be anything, not necessarily a personal deity, I still found in the few meetings I visited w/a family member, that sometimes the god thing is pushed too hard. But I know a lot of people who are fully in the NA program, doing great and their higher power is not a god or a deity. I've heard somebody say that they don't even feel comfortable enough saying "god" in the serenity prayer, so they replace it with gravity. lol. So, I wouldn't let the god thing scare you away just yet... cuz there are lots of people who are like us, who aren't religious or don't believe in a god, and just make the program their own kind of thing when it comes to a higher power.

yeahgr8

I would have happily sacrificed a virgin and believed in the tooth fairy if i thought i could get a moments inner peace when i went to AA the last time...i dipped my toe in an quickly out every couple of years for a long time before that...i was a very clever drunk you see, far more so than the others;-)

Seriously though i found out that i really didn't have a clue what i believed in or even who i was when i started doing the work AA suggested...hopefully, for your sake, that will happen to you at SMART?

Keep looking and try and keep an open mind...a good one for me to remember in the beginning...and now in some things to be honest...was am i really willing to trust my future to someone whos direction and decisions have bought me to where i am today? I finally got that listening to that person (ME!) was not a good idea and found someone else whos life i liked the look of in a recovery group and asked them how they did it!

Charmie

you made me laugh yeahgr8!
that was the same as me when i walked through the doors of AA utterly defeated,beaten.no fight left in me.i had been fighting everything and everyone for 20 yrs.i was tired.i was willing to believe in little green men from mars in order to live a happy,useful life.that dosnt mean to say i was gullible by the way!
i looked for someone with a confidence i had never had.who spoke clearly and consicely about how she had recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body and aksed her if she would show me how.
i had the gift of desperation.
how many times....AA is NOT RELIGIOUS!
one meeting is certainly not enough to draw any reasonable conclusions.
i have been sober and around the fellowship 18 months,never heard jesus mentioned once (i live in scotland)
i also travelled around america last year and this year and went to meetings allover the counrty,again never heard jesus mentioned.
sounds like an AA meeting that is doing things "their way" that you experienced,please dont let that put you off.
i found at the end the illness of alcoholism that i suffered from had beaten me into a state of reasonablness...and willing to go to any lengths to arrest it one day at a time.
spirituality is about right living in a nutshell,i had never done the right thing all my life.now i can look the world in the eye.what a trmemndous feeling.
please let us know how you get on at the smart meeting,and dont let that one meeting of AA that you attended put you off,it sounds like a complete mis-representaion of a wonderful fellowship that saved this girsl sorry a$$.
welcome to sr.

stugotz

Stop thinking so much, thats what got you here to begin with. No one goes to an AA meeting unless they have a problem. And yes, the program has been described as simplistic and repetitive. And for that I thank God and Bill.

NEOMARXIST

If you want to stay sober more than you want to get drunk then you'll find your way. Simple.

Peace

zbear23

Hi Mat, and welcome.

I've heard the saying "analysis paralysis" used from time to time in AA, and I know that I've been very succeptible to this over the years. Part of my own recovery has been to stop comparing myself with others (ego) and begin identifying (spirit-IMO). I think "God" is a word, a noise, a symbol of some sort of universal power that we can tap into. I regard it as pure love, which never goes where it isn't invited: hence, all the awful stuff that happens in the a world that is dominated by ego...chaos, conflict, competition, etc. IMO, love is the universal unifying force, and ego ever strives to separate. Hence, all my intellectual analysis...and trust me, it's one of my favorite things....is really nothing other than stroking my ego. AA, being "the language of the heart" is the antidote to ego. It is not a "no drinking" program, but a design for living program. As our old friend Crazy Carl Jung said....we need a psychic shift brought on by a spiritual awakening.

All this aside, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have discovered many people who have achieved the inner peace that I know I always really sought, and did it by being willing to give up their own selfish, self centered pride, ego, desire, etc. These are lovely people who are dedicated to eliminating the separation between people by way of learning to love and be loved. They taught me to love myself and others, to feel at peace and not require outside "stuff" to regulate my feelings. Analysis....in the final analysis<G> is all about breaking things up into pieces to see how it works. That's the separation of ego. Love looks at things as a singularity...unity. And that particular "higher power" never blesses some and curses others. It, like electricity, is available to us all if we're willing to plug in and not futily continue to power up ourselves. I think that goes under the heading of Humility.

Think of AA meetings as restaurants...if you don't like what's served up at one, you don't stop eating out...you find a different restaurant. The nature of AA is that every meeting, being autonomous, tends to take on the flavor of its members in the community. They vary radically in character. And from my understanding, you live in a very Christian part of the country and it may take you more effort to find meetings that don't reference Jesus. I live in Boston and seldom do I hear any particular deity mentioned....but God is a common catchall for that whateveritis universal power (I actually think in terms of universal mind...again, like Jung's "Collective Unconscious.") A collective undeniably being more powerful than an individual.

I also know many long term sober AA members who are committed atheists...and seem to be having an awfully lot of fun in AA.

I don't see any downside to turning my ego over to a power that will help me identity rather than compare, to love rather than envy. And since there is no concrete answer to the God/noGod discussion, I'd just as soon go with the idea that fosters the greatest inner peace and love. I like myself better that way. I have nothing to prove and no one to impress.

And, btw...anytime I hear anyone claim..."that's just how I am"....I assume that they are closed minded and unwilling to change, which is generally a manifestation of fear. And ego is where fear lives. Ego is dedicated to the past..old ideas, old guilt, old fears. IMO, ego is dedicated to being "right" rather than happy. Just sayin'.

AA suggests we be willing to give up our old ideas....after all, if I'm at an AA meetings, exactly WHERE have my old ideas got me, other than looking for some OTHER solution. I hope you enjoy SMART. It's a good group. I've attended. But AA turned out to be the most useful path for me, especially once I realized that only a small percentage of members really are devoted to the program as it is layed out in the literature. IMO, most are sort of like those Sunday morning Christians who rip and run the rest of the week. I learned to tolerate those I judged harshly which enabled me to benefit from those "authentically" recovered. Taught me tolerance, if nothing else. I think it's called being human...with character defects that are pretty well described in that list of "the 7 deadly sins." Although I don't believe in the concept of sin, since I am devoted to the action of forgiveness.

blessings
zenbear

LaFemme

I wonder if someone were to say "I tried going it alone and it wasn't for me" and I were to keep trying to convince them how that was the best way (practically the only way) to get over their alcoholism, how everyone here would react.

Mat, tried AA and is going to try SMART, let him be, if he wants to try AA again in the future I am sure he will. He sounds like a smart guy.

bdiddy5522

I am not going to turn this into a religious post. I think the bottom line is that trying to beat this disease ourselves has landed us all in a pot of crap over and over. For me, I didn't have a problem with the religious aspect of the program. But for anyone struggling with that, I would simply say "give it a shot". Doing it alone didn't work, so what do we have to lose by turning to a higher power for help?

I hope you find what works for you, as that is what is ultimately most important.

LexieCat

Um, LaFemme,

I don't see anyone telling him not to try SMART. I know people for whom it's been very helpful, people who were not comfortable with the 12-Step approach. I do think a program or structured plan of some kind is very helpful, particularly in early sobriety when most of us hardly know which end is up. SMART can do that, as do some other programs.

All we were doing was to explain how the spiritual program of AA is not the same thing as religion, and that no belief in a "God" is necessary. Having a misconception of what a program is can deter people from what might prove to be helpful.

I don't try to explain SMART to anyone because I have no experience with it. But I HAVE been around AA for quite a LONG time (since my first husband got sober 30 years ago), so I do know a bit about what AA is.

littlefish

Well, I have to chime in as an AA-er and mat, I have never heard anyone mention Jesus in an AA meeting...and I've been going for 2 years.

On the other hand, I hope I don't ruffle any AA feathers here....there are a lot of nutcases in AA.
(I'm one of them)

Lots of people who aren't really alcoholics are attracted to AA. They come in and they have other issues and though they are convinced they are alcoholics, they aren't.

But I don't mind them being there. Sometimes thier shares are from the twilight zone and I can hardly wait for their 5 minutes to be up because they are way out on the fringe somewhere with being...bipolar, mentally ill....whatever.

but I don't want to kick them out. Because the fact is that a lot of alcoholics are also mentally ill, food addicts, gamblers, sex addicts, debt addicts....or whatever.

These non alcoholics in AA comprise, in my opinion, a small minority and maybe the program can help them in some way.

mat try going to some other meetings and when you hear someone's share that you really can relate to: value that.

Mat

After decompressing a bit, I wish I hadn't posted about this yesterday.

I was p*****d off because I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about religion, and... I don't know what I expected.

I feel like I got mad because other people find comfort and help in this thing that *I* personally cannot wrap my brain around without rejecting. When I heard them talk about God, Jesus, etc. I just got angry and wanted to confront them.

I obviously have a lot more than just my alcoholism to deal with here. My problem isn't with AA, it is with people in general. I probably need to bring this up with my therapist.

I'm still sober though. 7 days tonight.

Harry01854

"Many a man likeyou has begun to solve the problem by the method of substitution.You can, if you wish, make A.A., itself your 'higher power.' Here's a very large group of people who have solved their alcohol problem. In this respect they are certainly a power greater than you, who have not even come close to a solution. Surely you can have faith in them. Even this minimum of faith will be enough."

Quoted from Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Chapter is Step Two, page 27, half way down second paragraph.

Mat, not sure if this will help, but I do hope it does shed some light. There are other parts in this chapter where they suggest to keep an openmind.

This is from same Book, same chapter, page 26, third paragraph....."First, Alcoholics Anonymous does not demand that you believe anything. All of its Twelve Steps are but suggestions. Second, to get sober and to stay sober, you don't have to swallow all of Step Two right now."

Have a good day,

Harry

LexieCat

Mat,

THAT, my friend, was a very honest admission you just made in your post. Truly, that takes courage to admit.

Whatever tack you take in addressing your drinking problem, it's of supreme importance, in my opinion, to be honest and open-minded with yourself and others. That's crucial whether you go with AA, SMART, or just do it on your own.

There are certain people in meetings who, when they start to speak, have me internally rolling my eyes before they even start. I try to listen, though, with an open mind. Sometimes the same people who annoy me the most will come out with something I needed to hear. And even when they don't, it gives me an opportunity to exercise my patience and tolerance.

Thanks for your post. Stay willing to learn.

Dee74

Mat

I have a lot of respect for AA cos I have a lot of respect for the AAers I've got to know here - but it's not the way I (or many others here) got sober, so it's clearly not the only way to go.

I've seen people get hung up on the AA=God thing (rightly or wrongly)...and then just walk away not only from AA...but from trying any other route.

Don't do that.

If you decide AA is not for you, there's sticky posts in the Alcoholism, Substance Abuse, and Secular forums chock full of various recovery groups and approaches

D

Snarf

Mat, congrats on the 7 days! That first week can be brutal, and you've made it through.

I must admit to you that I was quite turned off by the "God" aspect of AA when I first went 4 years ago. That was not what I signed up for. If I wanted religion, I'd go to church.

But this time was different. True, my feelings about "God" have changed in those 4 years. But this time I knew I had to stop drinking, and AA seemed to me the program with the most success. And I've read (and re-read) the parts of the Big Book and the 12 & 12 that deal with religion. Chapter 4 in the Big Book is entitled "We Agnostics." It's helped a lot of people understand how AA can work for those who don't believe in a supreme deity.

Of course, as Dee said, AA isn't the only way. Even the Big Book acknowledges that. A lot of people are big proponents of it because it has helped a lot of people, estimated at over 2 million worldwide.

julez

Great job on the 7 days! And your raw honesty about what your real "problem" with AA was a great step in getting to know how to help yourself. I do think you should bring this up to your therapist. Maybe you will get more insight.