LexieCat

Well, I could go into a dissertation about the Twelve Steps, because those are really the answer to the "now, what?" after you admit your powerlessness.

I am no expert on the Steps, I am taking them very slowly, but I do have almost two years sober, and I apply many of the Steps to my life on a daily basis without having worked them "formally" with a sponsor. An AA sponsor is sort of a mentor, someone who helps you go through them and acts as a guide. A sponsor is optional, but if you decide you want what the people you meet in AA have, a sponsor is recommended to help with the journey.

Since you are having a bit of an epiphany moment, you might want to take a look at AA's Big Book--here is a link to it, online: Big Book Online. The most important part is the first 164 pages, which explains the AA program (bear in mind it was written in 1935, so the language is a bit dated but the concepts still apply). The latter part of the book has personal stories--there might be some you can relate to. One of the key suggestions when you are listening to/reading other people's stories is to see what you can identify with--the problems, the emotions--rather than compare.

LexieCat

Incidentally, Mat, one of the other books that I found very helpful in understanding the Twelve Steps is a book I allude to in my avatar, "One Breath at a Time". Buddhism is a non-theistic religion--it does not profess belief in what most of us think of as "God".

The book describes a spiritual approach to the Twelve Steps that someone who is atheist or agnostic can be comfortable with. I know more than one person who was finally comfortable with AA after reading that book.

And just one comment after reading your last post about quitting drinking being "difficult and complicated". I believe that is a result of your over-analyzing that you were talking about in your first post. It is actually ridiculously simple--we MAKE it complicated by trying to overthink it. Once we drop the rope, give up the fight, surrender, it is SOOOO much easier. I couldn't believe the simple act of complete surrender could feel so good.

smacked

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but one time I was listening to a radio show, and the host said something about lung cancer that made me pause, he wondered WHICH cigarette was the final tipping point in his father's eventual lung cancer/death. At what point, did terminal illness make it's appearance..

I've always wondered that about my drinking, when I did. At what point is the damage I'm doing to my body, my liver, going to be beyond what is naturally repairable. Because there really are not symptoms of some of the most severe and terminal complications of alcoholism in the beginning.. I did have a fear of that "is it this drink that does me in".. course, I did keep drinking, but that's another Oprah.

SoberJune282010

Maybe the answer is not to logicate the past. I know for me that this would be a major tangled ball of yarn to try to reason with.

I think what finally worked for me was to look to the future. I did some massive soul searching and asked myself what the hell was I doing. Will my wife and I have a retirement or a future for that matter? She and my family deserve better. What am I as a man? I want more for them and me.

That's just a couple of the 1000's of things that have gone through my head the last few months. Now I am hell bent on giving that to us! ~ Day 40

Mat

smacked: I hadn't really thought in terms of the drink that does me in, as I see it as more of a cumulative thing. What is really doing me in is the behavior that causes me to keep pouring the crap down my throat. It might be helpful in the future to think of the individual drink however, to stop myself from picking it up/buying it.

It scares me to death that so many people can develop cirrhosis with no symptoms until it is so advanced that it's "transplant or die". I am a bit of a hypochondriac, and I have researched every possible manifestation of alcoholic liver disease and constantly worry that I will fall victim. I always freak out because my palms appear red(though I believe they have always looked this way), and I dread conditions like ascites, esophageal varices, jaundice and hepatic encephalopathy. I have a doctors appointment on Sept. 28th of this year, and was told that if I could remain sober for a month up until that day that tests could be ordered to get a better idea of the damage I have done; if I have been drinking prior to the testing it will throw off the results.

At 31 with 10 years of drinking heavily, I most certainly have fatty liver. Hopefully nothing beyond that... Hopefully I will be able to remain sober and get the blasted tests done in the first place.

Zebra1275

I'm an intelligent well educated man, but using logic to solve my problem with alcohol never worked.

I'm older now, and know that I probably have another binge in me, but I'm not sure if I have another recovery.

For me now, a trial and error approach to drinking is like using a trial and error approach to skydiving. It's not gonna be pretty.

LexieCat

Well, if you've been reading about liver disease, you should also know that the liver does a wonderful job of repairing itself IF you stop drinking, assuming that it isn't already cirrhotic. Even then, stopping drinking will prevent the cirrhosis from advancing.

If your health is the big motivator, great. You have a lot to gain by quitting drinking.

julez

What scares me about my liver is not only the drinking, but all the meds I took to try and get rid of the hangover. After drinking the night away, I took excedrine or motrin before going to bed, and usually needed it in the morning as well.

smacked

schem9 posted this in June.. it's really a harrowing tale of what we can do to ourselves, health-wise. It took a lot of honesty, and courage for him to write this I think, and I think it can be helpful to read this stuff..

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-bad-fast.html

xaphan88

I can sympathize with the desire to overcome the drinking through logic. I tried this as well many times and also ended up with the same result. Luckily, I only hurt myself. But over time, and due to an accidental hospitalization, I realized that it was really over. I'm not a huge fan of AA, I have the same "higher power" problems you mention, but the meetings provided a place where I nodded my head in agreement far more often than not. People understand. And early sobriety sucks. My two cents.

xaphan

LexieCat

Thanks, smacked, for posting the link to that story. It brought me flashbacks of my second husband when he was hospitalized--his liver and kidneys shut down, his eyes looked like someone had dripped yellow food coloring into them. He was in a coma for a week. When he came home from the hospital, his ascites was so bad that he fell down and lay like a turtle on his back, unable to get up or even to roll over.

Oh, and the encephalopathy was great fun, too. Couldn't grasp or understand the simplest conversations for weeks afterward.

Astoundingly, when he recovered enough for a liver biopsy, he was found to have EARLY cirrhosis, and would be fine as long as he never drank again.

That lasted a few months. So far as I know he is still drinking. I'm shocked he is still alive.

CarolD

Matt.....you might be interested in what actually happens
in AA meetings ......

Your First AA Meeting<

Here is a list of other options..includeing SMART

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

I certainly hope you will find something that benefits you.

julez

Mat, they were looking for you in the chat room tonight. Hope you're doing ok

littlefish

Hi Mat!
Just a few thoughts I'd like to share....

Mat wrote: I'm just echoing what others have said, but I would like to add that spirituality certainly doesn't have to be diety based...hindus are in a culture that uses alcohol and they have a multi-deity religion. Imagine their quandary-

Another thought: when I first thought about quitting, I was totally focused on the physical risks of alcohol. I worried about my liver, etc. I didn't see the emotional devastation it was causing, and the state of mental illness that I reached when my drinking was constant.

It seems you are most worried about the effects of alcohol on your body. Have you considered how it is affecting your mental and emotional state?

Last point: I am in AA, and I am not going to push the program on you, but there is one little pearl I can share. One of the most important chapters in the big book of AA, (titled "Alcoholics Anonymous"), is called: "Into Action".

A very wise AA speaker pointed out this chapter is not called: "Into Thinking".
I spent a lot of time trying to think my way out of drinking. It never worked.

Gradually I realized I had to get into action. I had to replace drinking activity with other activities. I had to make solid plans for my day, I had to make promises and keep them, make obligations and keep them. I had to change my lifestyle. And, most importantly, I had to undergo a program of intense personal development. It wasn't my liver that was in danger of shutting down, it was my mind.

I use AA for this program of personal development, but there are other options and other step programs that are not spiritual.

Mat

I'm doing good, thanks! I have never used the chat function here, but may in the future. I just took a bath and played my PSP all night, no drinking. I'm going to drop the thing in the tub someday. haha

I might try to seriously scout out a meeting this weekend and plan to go early next week. I might as well try it... I know that I will make it through this weekend without a drink. I'm feeling good about it all.

Time to attempt sleep.

Mat

Ok, so I lied about sleep. One last post!

Littlefish: My mental health is exponentially more difficult to manage when I am sober.

All of those scars on my arm in my avatar were one of the ways I had found to deal with things before I realized I could use alcohol to suppress my anxiety. The worst thing that drinking does to my mental and emotional state is to cause me undue anxiety about the complications of drinking itself. When I am not drinking, that fear seems to shift off into other more irrational fears which were present when I was younger. I can't count the amount of times I have pulled over my car because I think my throat is closing on me, typical anxiety stuff like that.

The anxiety over the consequences of drinking is actually preferable to me over the more crazy fears and psychosomatic manifestations that my disorder brings out. It feels less immediate than the "OMG I'M DYING RIGHT THIS SECOND" panic attacks. The only problem being that alcohol actually WILL kill me where the anxiety at worst will make me hyperventilate and pass out.

This thread has been enlightening for me. You are right that I probably can't think my way out of this. I have always been good at problem solving and logic, it is sort of my go-to thing. It is only natural for me to look at all of this as a big puzzle which I will eventually solve, but it is looking like that is the wrong approach entirely and might just lead to more of the same crazy crap I have been putting myself through these last few months(telling myself one thing and doing another, etc.)

Sleeping for real this time. /zzzzzzz

SixStringZen

Let me impart some wisdom about recovery...Alcohol may kill you...

Do you have to experience THAT first hand before you believe it, brother?

It's ok to take people's word for some things...

littlefish

You refer to having a disorder. It is not at all uncommon for alcoholics to also have mental health issues, food addiction issues, codependency issues, you name it. Maybe the best approach is to seek treatment for your mental health issue? If you have already sought treatment and have meds and/or a program in place, then it is just to continue on your path and begin a program of recovery from alcohol.

One step at time, one day at a time....

paperclip

This post reminded me a lot of my favorite book, Infinite Jest.

The novel is, more or less, an extended examination of addiction in its various forms in our society. I think most addicts would relate to it. It's what first made me realize that I am an alcoholic (though I still hadn't hit my bottom at the time).

Anyway, in the book, there's a character who ruminates more or less on this exact topic--about how easy it is to turn your a critical eye against the wisdom of others and tear it apart. How easy it is to say that we need to learn the lessons ourselves, etc., etc.

The real difficulty is in turning over your will to these received wisdoms (Step 3). Because we all have that addict inside of us--and he's a really cunning guy. He can find all the excuses in the world; we've all been there. But there is a reason to these things and they're not meant to be deconstructed.

The essence, I suppose, would be that these seemingly trite sayings, "One day at a time" et al., are more akin to Zen koans, meant to be thought of and considered on their own terms and trying to see your mind as a logic puzzle is a futile endeavor: your broken mind is trying to think about itself, so it will inevitably err. The better option is to listen to what people who have long been sober have to say and take those on their own terms.

That's just the author's opinion, though. I have the same problem as you, Matt. I'm finally making a real effort to get sober, though, and the above considerations have really been running through my mind a lot.

thomasmansour

Why need trial and error? Ain't that waste of time?