Did it again..happy this time?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
Hi Dinamic
I used to think I learnt something about myself after a relapse too.
I dunno, maybe I really did - but whatever insight I gained didn't stop me from drinking again, which is the real lesson I had to learn.
For me, until I made the break and broke the cycle completely, I was doomed to endlessly repeat it.
I'm glad you're back with us tho - I hope nothing I've said tempers that excitement
D
I used to think I learnt something about myself after a relapse too.
I dunno, maybe I really did - but whatever insight I gained didn't stop me from drinking again, which is the real lesson I had to learn.
For me, until I made the break and broke the cycle completely, I was doomed to endlessly repeat it.
I'm glad you're back with us tho - I hope nothing I've said tempers that excitement
D
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,911
If I were to pick up again tonight, I could limit myself to 5 beers. And my alcoholic brain would be cheering me on saying "see you're not an alcoholic, you can stop after 5".
And my alcoholic brain would know that I took the bait and that I'm hooked again. And two weeks from now, it would still be only 5 beers a night for me. However, vodka would have joined the party, and the next day I would only drink 2 beers . . . for breakfast, so that I can get some equalibrium to start my day. It's a progressive disease. 5 beers is 5 too many for me.
And my alcoholic brain would know that I took the bait and that I'm hooked again. And two weeks from now, it would still be only 5 beers a night for me. However, vodka would have joined the party, and the next day I would only drink 2 beers . . . for breakfast, so that I can get some equalibrium to start my day. It's a progressive disease. 5 beers is 5 too many for me.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Exactly, Zebra. I was just telling someone else today that what scares me most about a relapse is that in my case, the first couple of times would be JUST FINE. And that's when the sneakiness of the addiction would kick in--lulling me into a deluded sense of security even while it is wrapping its tentacles around my throat.
So I don't wanna go there. Relapse happens to a lot of sincere, highly-motivated people in recovery. It is NOT, however, a requirement.
So I don't wanna go there. Relapse happens to a lot of sincere, highly-motivated people in recovery. It is NOT, however, a requirement.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by Dinamic 
So, last night I indulged yet again in the bottle. I woke up this morning feeling all, well I suppose the best word to describe it would be - GROSS!
I only had five beer, which is awesome for me. I was actually able to say no after five beer. I was able to put the bottle down. It wasn't even hard to do it either, it was an easy choice.
I only had five beer, which is awesome for me. I was actually able to say no after five beer. I was able to put the bottle down. It wasn't even hard to do it either, it was an easy choice.
I'm not busting balls but I am calling your false ego out!
Big deal, you ONNNLY draink 5. If that's ok, why do you feel bad about it? Could it be that your experience is that you've been able to moderate, at times, for a while. Then, over time, you're right back at it again at the same high levels of the past? That's mine. If drinking WAS your/my/our problem, stopping would solve our problems. IF you're able to stop, then stop. If you're not able to stop, then keep drinking or find some power that you don't have (yet) to help you.
- If you really WANT to get and stay sober, maybe it's time to switch things up - start doing something differently / something that you haven't done before.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 44
Thanks for some of that guys.
I don't however appreciate being as some would say called out. I thought this was a support group? I never said I was REWARDING myself, nor did I say I was proud of drinking. I'm here for a reason, like all of you..because I know drinking is a problem and I am trying to do something about it.
I didn't realize how badly my words could be twisted when writing posts. I did not intend to make it sound as though drinking was a good thing - not at all. I expected a lot less judgement. Friends don't judge right? Well apparently that rule does not apply on this "Support Group Site".. yeah, support.
Best wishes and best of luck to you all.
I don't however appreciate being as some would say called out. I thought this was a support group? I never said I was REWARDING myself, nor did I say I was proud of drinking. I'm here for a reason, like all of you..because I know drinking is a problem and I am trying to do something about it.
I didn't realize how badly my words could be twisted when writing posts. I did not intend to make it sound as though drinking was a good thing - not at all. I expected a lot less judgement. Friends don't judge right? Well apparently that rule does not apply on this "Support Group Site".. yeah, support.
Best wishes and best of luck to you all.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Dinamic,
I hope my words did not offend you. I did think some of the responses were a little harsh, I did not think your post indicated that you thought drinking was a reward.
Please don't go, there are many positive people here.
I hope my words did not offend you. I did think some of the responses were a little harsh, I did not think your post indicated that you thought drinking was a reward.
Please don't go, there are many positive people here.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 48
Hi,
I hope you manage to stay clean and reward yourself with another day's worth of sobriety rather than another drink.
As to getting called out, I still see that as people caring about you. If people here did not give a rats ass about you and your drinking, they wouldn't be replying to you.
Caring supportive environment equals calling you out on your addictive thinking (affectionately called stinking thinking) in the hope that you get the reality check you and everyone needs when we hear a story such as yours.
When I went into treatment 10 years ago, I thought I could say all the right things to a roomful of people who I thought were different to me. I was special and different.
When it was my turn to share, people in the room smelled the BS I was spouting immediately and called me out on it. Within a few days I realized I was in a room full of people who all felt that they were special and different.
There is a universal word that explains this phenomenon - addiction.
I can tell you this much. Everything I did not want to hear in treatment were the only things that made me look into myself (finally) and work on what I needed to work on to stop the insanity.
It was painful and worth it. BTW - the pain was not anywhere close to the pain of active addiction.
I truly hope you stay sober. But a support group is there for you , not necessarily for what you want to hear.
I hope you manage to stay clean and reward yourself with another day's worth of sobriety rather than another drink.
As to getting called out, I still see that as people caring about you. If people here did not give a rats ass about you and your drinking, they wouldn't be replying to you.
Caring supportive environment equals calling you out on your addictive thinking (affectionately called stinking thinking) in the hope that you get the reality check you and everyone needs when we hear a story such as yours.
When I went into treatment 10 years ago, I thought I could say all the right things to a roomful of people who I thought were different to me. I was special and different.
When it was my turn to share, people in the room smelled the BS I was spouting immediately and called me out on it. Within a few days I realized I was in a room full of people who all felt that they were special and different.
There is a universal word that explains this phenomenon - addiction.
I can tell you this much. Everything I did not want to hear in treatment were the only things that made me look into myself (finally) and work on what I needed to work on to stop the insanity.
It was painful and worth it. BTW - the pain was not anywhere close to the pain of active addiction.
I truly hope you stay sober. But a support group is there for you , not necessarily for what you want to hear.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 44
Thanks Midnightrun..
I think I understand what it is that you're saying.. But it doesn't make it hurt any less. I'm embarrassed. The only people I thought I could talk to without judgement, made me feel small and well foolish. I'm sure that wasn't the intention, but now I sit here feeling useless and stupid. God, I was foolish to think that I could be understood. I was foolish to think that there were people out there who could offer words of wisdom without being judgemental. My day has officially been flushed down the toilet, and a drink is sounding pretty good.
What's the point of being or trying to be sober, if you still end up being the bottom of the barrel? I'm sober right now, and hell I wish I wasn't. Then I'd at least be drunk and sad, not just sad. What's the point? WHAT IS THE POINT!?!? Gosh, I hate everything right now, most of all myself. Why must everything be so hard? I come here to try and better myself and I still end up just feeling like crap. Nothing helps. I'm a loser and that's not going to change. Change - Ha, what a freakin joke. Screw it.
I think I understand what it is that you're saying.. But it doesn't make it hurt any less. I'm embarrassed. The only people I thought I could talk to without judgement, made me feel small and well foolish. I'm sure that wasn't the intention, but now I sit here feeling useless and stupid. God, I was foolish to think that I could be understood. I was foolish to think that there were people out there who could offer words of wisdom without being judgemental. My day has officially been flushed down the toilet, and a drink is sounding pretty good.
What's the point of being or trying to be sober, if you still end up being the bottom of the barrel? I'm sober right now, and hell I wish I wasn't. Then I'd at least be drunk and sad, not just sad. What's the point? WHAT IS THE POINT!?!? Gosh, I hate everything right now, most of all myself. Why must everything be so hard? I come here to try and better myself and I still end up just feeling like crap. Nothing helps. I'm a loser and that's not going to change. Change - Ha, what a freakin joke. Screw it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hey Dinaminc...I care and I am sending positive thoughts your way. I live by the idea that people who live in glass houses shouldn't cast the first stone...I am guessing that everyone who is here has probably suffered a relapse at some point in the road to recovery.
While I understand what Midnightrun is getting at, I think we have to remember that there is a vast difference between an online forum and an AA meeting that is face to face. Tone and intent do not always come across through an email and it is easy to read an email the wrong way. We need to be extra careful how our posts might come across.
Also, one of the things I like here is that there are plenty of people who are not on AA here. If you are not on AA you shouldn't be called to task for not living by AA's 12 steps or ideas. You came here for support and comfort and got reamed....there is a time and place for everything, and since we weren't in the room with you we weren't (IMO) in the position to call you out. I have seen a number of other people post here about relapses and not get "called out" but given support and constructive advice.
Just saying.
While I understand what Midnightrun is getting at, I think we have to remember that there is a vast difference between an online forum and an AA meeting that is face to face. Tone and intent do not always come across through an email and it is easy to read an email the wrong way. We need to be extra careful how our posts might come across.
Also, one of the things I like here is that there are plenty of people who are not on AA here. If you are not on AA you shouldn't be called to task for not living by AA's 12 steps or ideas. You came here for support and comfort and got reamed....there is a time and place for everything, and since we weren't in the room with you we weren't (IMO) in the position to call you out. I have seen a number of other people post here about relapses and not get "called out" but given support and constructive advice.
Just saying.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
Change is a funny thing. In my life, it seems the more I resist change, the more life pops me upside the head to get my attention. If a feather doesn't work, I get broadsided by a 2X4, ouch, lol.
In evey group, during any discussion, there will always be those who ruffle our feathers, and I agree, my first impulse is to tell them off and shut down any attempt at further dialogue. It works alot of the time. However, when discussing serious issues like addiction, it helps to keep an open mind, and pick up whatever tools, spoken or read, that will enable me to keep moving in the direction I have chosen to take today, which is to live today without the old comfortable, but devastating crutch of alcohol. Change is hard and scary, but sometimes life just plain forces us to change, whether we want to or not.
I just don't see how you can feel like a loser, when you have come to a recovery group to help you deal with this major problem in your life. Instead, I see a person who has courage, feels worthy of life, and wants to change life in significant, meaningful ways so that your life is full of rewards, direction and purpose. While drinking, I had very little direction, or rewards, except the mindnumbing effect of alcohol, the awful hangovers, guilt, shame, and remorse that always followed shortly after a long night of saying f--it to my life and downing a few too many shots and beers. Alcohol always made me feel like a loser, but if you are here and seeking help, you are far from a loser in my eyes.
In evey group, during any discussion, there will always be those who ruffle our feathers, and I agree, my first impulse is to tell them off and shut down any attempt at further dialogue. It works alot of the time. However, when discussing serious issues like addiction, it helps to keep an open mind, and pick up whatever tools, spoken or read, that will enable me to keep moving in the direction I have chosen to take today, which is to live today without the old comfortable, but devastating crutch of alcohol. Change is hard and scary, but sometimes life just plain forces us to change, whether we want to or not.
I just don't see how you can feel like a loser, when you have come to a recovery group to help you deal with this major problem in your life. Instead, I see a person who has courage, feels worthy of life, and wants to change life in significant, meaningful ways so that your life is full of rewards, direction and purpose. While drinking, I had very little direction, or rewards, except the mindnumbing effect of alcohol, the awful hangovers, guilt, shame, and remorse that always followed shortly after a long night of saying f--it to my life and downing a few too many shots and beers. Alcohol always made me feel like a loser, but if you are here and seeking help, you are far from a loser in my eyes.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,911
Dinamic,
I can't tell you how you should feel, but I don't feel useless and stupid. And look at what I wrote in an earlier post, talking about my progressive drinking leading to morning drinking, etc.
If I were to pick up again tonight, I could limit myself to 5 beers. And my alcoholic brain would be cheering me on saying "see you're not an alcoholic, you can stop after 5".
And my alcoholic brain would know that I took the bait and that I'm hooked again. And two weeks from now, it would still be only 5 beers a night for me. However, vodka would have joined the party, and the next day I would only drink 2 beers . . . for breakfast, so that I can get some equalibrium to start my day. It's a progressive disease. 5 beers is 5 too many for me.
That experience made me feel pretty stupid. My thought when I shared my experience is that maybe it would help you to avoid a similiar experience.
I've got a little bit of sober time under my belt right now, but I clearly remember the guilt, shame, and low self esteem that I felt after my last bender. I don't feel that way today. I would guess that 10% of that change is due to AA, and 90% of that change occured by simply removing alcohol from the equation. When alcohol is out of my life I feel so much better.
I can't tell you how you should feel, but I don't feel useless and stupid. And look at what I wrote in an earlier post, talking about my progressive drinking leading to morning drinking, etc.
If I were to pick up again tonight, I could limit myself to 5 beers. And my alcoholic brain would be cheering me on saying "see you're not an alcoholic, you can stop after 5".
And my alcoholic brain would know that I took the bait and that I'm hooked again. And two weeks from now, it would still be only 5 beers a night for me. However, vodka would have joined the party, and the next day I would only drink 2 beers . . . for breakfast, so that I can get some equalibrium to start my day. It's a progressive disease. 5 beers is 5 too many for me.
That experience made me feel pretty stupid. My thought when I shared my experience is that maybe it would help you to avoid a similiar experience.
I've got a little bit of sober time under my belt right now, but I clearly remember the guilt, shame, and low self esteem that I felt after my last bender. I don't feel that way today. I would guess that 10% of that change is due to AA, and 90% of that change occured by simply removing alcohol from the equation. When alcohol is out of my life I feel so much better.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fredonia N.Y
Posts: 44
i also agree with anna and carol... i to hated who i had become... and after a relapse... i do think i did learn more about me... sometimes not seeing what it was till some time after the relapse tho.....
after years of this addiction... i have really become to hate myself more and more... cause when i relapsed this last time... i cant explain why....other then depression... stress.. ect ect
it no longer is to feel good... its only to exscape.... i never get the feel good high (ever) so of course after.... i always ask myself why i could not get threw that (issue) with out them pills... then when going threw withdraws... that is what kept me using... only to not get sick.... its a sick circle
and now for the 1st time in my life... after many attempts of getting and staying clean...i relize i cant just get and remain clean...inless i also change... there is so much about me and my life i need to learn and change.... i want this more then anything i have ever wanted before.....
i guess the fear of the unknown is what kept me from going for it... will people like the new me... will i like myself.... omg i can go on and on of questions i asked myself....and the answer was always so simple.... usally is... its just i always made it difficult... like most things in my life....
i will be what ever i want to be... so of course i will like myself...i can and will be what i make it to be.....
i no i am still early in this... being i am going to a 28 day program monday (tomorrow) and then i am going on to a year program (inpatient) which i 100% know that is what i need and best for me....
but for the 1st time threw out my 10, 11 year off and on..(more on then off addiction) i cant wait to get started and start this new path... of course i no its going to be hard as hell... and at times i will want to quit... and it will hurt....but thats not happening anymore....
its kinda like being born again... learing to crawl.... walk.... talk...ect...ect
point is that yes i also have learned from each relapse... or i would nevr feel like i do today... it took all this time and falls for me to want this... for me this time... and not for all my loved ones... kids...boyfriend..ect ect
so good luck hun and right down what ever you feel from these times... it helped me to look back at them things
Jen
after years of this addiction... i have really become to hate myself more and more... cause when i relapsed this last time... i cant explain why....other then depression... stress.. ect ect
it no longer is to feel good... its only to exscape.... i never get the feel good high (ever) so of course after.... i always ask myself why i could not get threw that (issue) with out them pills... then when going threw withdraws... that is what kept me using... only to not get sick.... its a sick circle
and now for the 1st time in my life... after many attempts of getting and staying clean...i relize i cant just get and remain clean...inless i also change... there is so much about me and my life i need to learn and change.... i want this more then anything i have ever wanted before.....
i guess the fear of the unknown is what kept me from going for it... will people like the new me... will i like myself.... omg i can go on and on of questions i asked myself....and the answer was always so simple.... usally is... its just i always made it difficult... like most things in my life....
i will be what ever i want to be... so of course i will like myself...i can and will be what i make it to be.....
i no i am still early in this... being i am going to a 28 day program monday (tomorrow) and then i am going on to a year program (inpatient) which i 100% know that is what i need and best for me....
but for the 1st time threw out my 10, 11 year off and on..(more on then off addiction) i cant wait to get started and start this new path... of course i no its going to be hard as hell... and at times i will want to quit... and it will hurt....but thats not happening anymore....
its kinda like being born again... learing to crawl.... walk.... talk...ect...ect
point is that yes i also have learned from each relapse... or i would nevr feel like i do today... it took all this time and falls for me to want this... for me this time... and not for all my loved ones... kids...boyfriend..ect ect
so good luck hun and right down what ever you feel from these times... it helped me to look back at them things
Jen
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Dinamic,
We aren't "judging" you, we are sharing our own experiences. I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that every one of us here has had the exact same thought processes you are having. We aren't any "better" than you, it's just that some of us have been at it a little longer and we've learned to recognize some of the traps our own addicted brains set for us.
What we are trying to do is to help you to recognize that what your own brain tells you sometimes is flat-out wrong. None of us recognized our own self-lies in the beginning.
Do keep an open mind and consider whether it's just possible that you play some mind games with yourself. The mind-games are defenses because we feel threatened. Taking away the alcohol (or drug) is threatening to the way we have learned to get along.
Nobody is looking to hurt you or to make you feel foolish. We have all BEEN THERE, that's all.
We aren't "judging" you, we are sharing our own experiences. I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that every one of us here has had the exact same thought processes you are having. We aren't any "better" than you, it's just that some of us have been at it a little longer and we've learned to recognize some of the traps our own addicted brains set for us.
What we are trying to do is to help you to recognize that what your own brain tells you sometimes is flat-out wrong. None of us recognized our own self-lies in the beginning.
Do keep an open mind and consider whether it's just possible that you play some mind games with yourself. The mind-games are defenses because we feel threatened. Taking away the alcohol (or drug) is threatening to the way we have learned to get along.
Nobody is looking to hurt you or to make you feel foolish. We have all BEEN THERE, that's all.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fredonia N.Y
Posts: 44
dinamic,
i so understand how you are feeling right now.. the good thing is that you have (are ) reaching out... or you would not of gotton on this site and posted... as i no its not feeling as thou anything is good at this point...but really that is a great thing you have done..... please stay on and read and talk more if you are able to..... sometimes for me.. its just getting threw certain moments...
i could not idetifi the moments at the time...but most of them were like these.. and they dont last as long as i thought they would....
i believe its so important to talk.. talk... call someone...get to meetings... keep talking on here....
i hope to here more from you.. if you would like to chat let me know i will pm you
Jen
i so understand how you are feeling right now.. the good thing is that you have (are ) reaching out... or you would not of gotton on this site and posted... as i no its not feeling as thou anything is good at this point...but really that is a great thing you have done..... please stay on and read and talk more if you are able to..... sometimes for me.. its just getting threw certain moments...
i could not idetifi the moments at the time...but most of them were like these.. and they dont last as long as i thought they would....
i believe its so important to talk.. talk... call someone...get to meetings... keep talking on here....
i hope to here more from you.. if you would like to chat let me know i will pm you
Jen
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,519
Dinamic, I do understand how you feel. I'm a sensitive person too & find it hard to handle criticism, even when it's well meant. This is the best and safest place I've ever found to get help and support. Some may not be very tactful, but I know they want to get across their message so you will benefit from their experience. In my almost 3 yrs. here I've seen maybe 2 or 3 who were truly mean-spirited, & they quickly left. I know your emotions are all over the place right now - mine certainly were when I first got started. Please keep sharing your journey with us.
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