thomasw170

feedback appreciated. There's a person that goes to a number of the A.A. meetings/clubs that I go to. Many, many people view this person as a 'cornerstone' of the program and he sponsors many. Financially he's struggled in the last few years. There are numerous unpaid bills and letters from collection agencies that simply are left unopened. He has borrowed from a number of people in the program and not paid them back. The issue has prompted me to break off a friendship with him. The most recent issue has surfaced that he has asked a sponsee of his [who is new to the program] to borrow $2,000. The sponsee is confused and doesn't know what to do. As a result a number of people are now aware that this person is trying to borrow large sums of money from people who are new to the program and vulnerable. It doesn't seem that far removed from "13th Stepping". Even though it seems like a pretty clear cut issue [that it's WRONG], how to address it with the person is baffling.

Anna

That is very wrong.

I am not an AA person, so I have no advice as to what you should do.

yeahgr8

Yes of course it is wrong!

Can you let other older members know what is going on whilst not putting yourself in the middle of it all?

Brucel

That IS wrong, I'm not judging, just reporting. We had one of those guys and all I can say is that it caused a bunch of problems for everyone involved, legal and otherwise. If the new dude has a sponsor he should probably bounce it off him first. If I was friendly or in communication with the new guy, I would probably advise him against it. That's just me. If necessary, bring it up at a business meeting, although that's probably why I don't go to business meetings. Good luck with that one and remember, the primary purpose is not banking. God Bless

Margareth

First of all I am not an active AA number and have never been to an AA meeting so I'm not judging AA or its members with this comment OK?

Second; If anybody I had only just met would ask me for money I would feel very uncomfortable. If anybody in a power of relative authority would ask me for money and I would be positively spooked.

And this is in the "real" world as opposed to an AA meeting which I understand should be a haven of safety and anonymity in which to heal from a dangerous and destructive disease which has a terrible hold over those who finally dare to go to one of these meetings. It doesn't take a genius to see that the kind of behaviour this person is engaged in is beyond the pale.

How to deal with it in a group setting such as AA is as far as I am concerned should be the same you confront any person who is engaged in destructive and disrespectful behaviour.

I would approach those with the natural kind of authority in groups such as this which comes from being old timers and long term healthy sponsors and organise and intervention with this person.

That way whatever dignity this person still has is treated with respect and the problem gets addressed in a mature fashion. Added to that I would ask the group to counsel those who have been at the receiving end of the abuse (Because that is what it is) and help them understand that what this person is doing is not OK and that they are entitled to say no.

This is just my personal appraisal of the situation but having been in several group counselling situations I know that it is important that this kind of dysfunctionality is addressed and that it benefits the group as a whole if it happens with respect and transparency.

Added to that I don't know why this person is in financial problems but my BS alarms are ringing loud and clear and I'm wondering could it be that he has money problems because of a hidden gambling problem?

Whatever the cause he is clearly not dealing with the issue in a sensible mature way and that might indicate something that he needs to address within himself.

Toronto68

Thomas, you mentioned you were able to break off the friendship with him. Did that mean just kind of disappearing or did that mean you putting in words to him that the friendship was closing? If the latter, then do you have the nerve (I guess that's the right word) to address this with him on your own? Or would you say you are baffled as to how to deal with this because he is a "senior" person in the program, and probably an elder too? If I didn't feel comfortable dealing with him for that reason or others, I would probably think of one "senior" and discreet person in the group that I could trust the information with and leave it with him/her.

Chops

Ahh, Thomas if I am reading your profile correctly you've been sober about 32years. Maybe you and other senior members have a chat with the guy?

Just curious, if your in the north shore area of Massachusetts by any chance, sounds like a guy I know. :-)

thomasw170

There was a sit-down chat about two years ago with him - 5 of his caring friends sharing their concerns primarily about his health: diet, sedentary lifestyle, and 400+ lb weight. Unfortunately, nothing has changed. I would welcome a chance to speak with him if there was any inkling that it would be an honest dialogue. But it's just not in the cards. I felt hopeful two years ago when we sat down to share our concerns. But every concern that was expressed was dismissed and rationalized away. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. He will make the choices that he needs to make. My greater concern is the welfare of the newcomers that are led to believe and hope in the lofty A.A. rhetoric that he preaches, but who are unaware that those same principles just don't seem to fit into his personal life - and that they are about to get hit up for a loan.

Norther

He's a bum: expose him as such in whatever way works or is required. I see no need to be shy about it. We're not supposed to carry resentments, but that does not mean we have to turn in our moral compasses, to yield up our right and obligation to make ethical judgments and then to act on them.

DayTrader

Of course, something needs to be said. If you don't want to do it yourself, perhaps an anonymous letter to him might do the trick. Like was suggested above, let some of the other old-timers know too... although my experience is that they often don't want/have the courage to say anything to the other guy. I'd also grab those sponsees and let them know what the deal is.

Finally, the man needs to be forgiven and prayed for. Just as he has no right to be doing what he's doing, you don't need to be walking around with any "justified resentments."

my $.02