notnormal

okay so went to another meeting tonight and kind of confirmed that I like the people but not so hot on the program.. for those that don't know this is by far, not my first time. I was sober for around 5 years in my 20's (in my 40's now).
Guess I'm wondering how many people here have managed to stay sober without working the program...
I know that I'm an alcoholic (not a problem drinker) few would disagree with me on that lol. And I also know that it would be hard to find someone at a meeting that would tell me I can do it without working the steps etc.
Is it wrong to go to meetings without any intention of working it their way?
I really enjoy hearing peoples stories and it helps me.. but can I just take that and leave the rest?
with SR I can get a lot of what I get from the meetings but it's not quite the same..
I'd really like some of your opinions... yes, i'm sitting down.
btw, I can't say for certain as it's been so long, but I really think I'm in the best mental state for stopping that I've ever been in.
nn
Day/Night 23

least

There are quite a few people here who stay sober without the program of AA. Many use other programs, some use counseling, some use this site, and some, like me, use a combination of these things.

As to just attending meetings without working the program, I don't see why not. I was told to 'take what I need and leave the rest' and that's what I do. I'm sober six months now and no longer have the obsession to drink like I used to so I must be doing something right.

Whatever you do to stay sober, do it with all your effort because your life depends on it. As much effort as you put into sobriety, that's how much you'll get out of it.

yeahgr8

Hey man

Every single route to sobriety has one thing in common...change!

Also every resource out there has a huge amount of people using it, not willing to change and wondering why they drink/use again?!

Your questions about going to meetings without working the program...i say you are more than welcome and you will find a lot of people in the rooms that want to get sober without doing any work...you won't be alone...and the more the merrier as far as i am concerned seriously you would be very welcome at the meetings i have been to:-)

Ill steal someones thunder by saying...the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking...it doesnt say anything about being prepared to actually do something about it just the desire...

Charmie

hello there.
you would be certainly welcome at about 95% of the meetings in the area i live in aswell,where it is openenly said in meetings that you dont need the big book or the steps.
i have found in my limited experience that this is fine,IF you are a heavy drinker and there-fore non-alcoholic.
you said by your own admission that you are alcoholic.
i too am alcoholic and i went to plenty meetings,called folk from the fellowship every day,met up with them for coffee etc.i only lasted a month before i drank again.
what is it about the programme that you really dont like? or are you just afraid of the programme? there is so much scare mongering in the area i live in about the programme it makes me so frustrated.its called contempt prior to investigation.
as least mentioned,AA is not the be-all and end-all of recovery,but i am interested to know what your real feelings are on the programme.
charmie.

Chops

I didn't drink and went to meetings.... that was all I could handle early on and was supported in that by some solid people with long term sobriety.

Work the program? I wanted to kill everyone in the hall for the first few months. But I liked what I heard (the stories) and stuck around. I indentified with how others drank (experience) and was finally not alone in the world. It was people's stories I liked (even though I hated them) and they kept me coming back despite the stupid slogans, holding hands, and all they rest that made me sick. The feeling of not being alone but wanting to be alone and that being okay was so cool.

Got involved in a group doing work, not the kind that is talked about alot here. But I helped set up the hall, put away chairs, clean up, made coffee, etc. Started doing committments... speaking at the detoxes and that turned into another AA job. Had a car and started giving dudes from the local sober house rides as service work. Thinking I was helping and actually being helped, AA has pulled that trick on me a bunch of times. AA is smarter than me.

Ended up running into a guy who is now my sponsor who took me through the steps about 10 months in. Just kinda happened.

I am giving you the long version of what should be a short answer. I took what I wanted and left the rest. Without me being aware of it the magic of AA took me and more was revealed when it was supposed to be. Not in my time but in Gods. That is and was my experience.

I am firm believer in supporting a members right to work the program as they please. How another member stays sober is a personal choice. I am a control freak so telling others what to do and wanting them to do it my way is an issue I have. AA has taught me to attempt to moderate this and be accepting of others. Hard as hell for me but I try.


I say to people that I have not worked AA but it has worked me, often times in spite of myself.

ninja7

I think there are a lot of people who attend AA meeting without program. I am one of them so far.

Even SMART recovery, which is alternate of AA, recommend to attend AA meeting, when there is not SMART meeting available near by.

sobermax

There is a lot of 'if you don't do the steps you'll be dead in weeks' at some of the meetings I have started to go to, and I have to admit to not liking that one bit. I am doing them, because the evidence that it works is right there in front of me. Someone said that lots of people 'fake it to make it' starting out and not to worry, just do it all anyway despite my feelings. As it turns out, I'm finding much less resistance in me to it all than I had expected.

That said, one of the longest-term sober people I knew (20+ years. He's dead now - not through alcoholism) did exactly as you say - he went to meetings to hear the stories, be with other alcoholics and keep his resolve fresh, leaving the rest alone.

Personally, I do not care how I feel right now, and have heard the same things from too many people for whom it has worked to want to take a chance on 'maybe'. That's just me of course.

Going to meetings has to be a whole lot better than not going, and everyone is different.

Whatever you decide - good luck NN, your posts are so helpful and I want to keep reading them.

SM

Kmber2010

NN....What a great post. I am like Least in that I do a combo of many things.....counseling, SR, reading, etc. but I do not do the program. Everyone is different, and recovers differently.

I am 2 months into sobriety and I will never drink again....even sip. I just know the cold hard truth that I will relapse with just one. That is how I work my recovery and I all about making positive changes in our lives. Sobriety won't stick if it is just a matter of will power so support is key.

I think attending meetings and taking what you want from them.....can only help you.

All the best and now is definitely a good time to stay sober!!

Severian

I am doing the same thing right now, NotNormal - going to meetings just to surround myself with sober alcoholics and to hear their stories. No sponsor, passively working step 2 (I already admit to step 1). If it keeps me off that damn bottle for a day, then it can't be wrong.

Timebuster

I can't tell you what works for other. It has also been my experience to know and meet other alcoholics/addicts who have found alternative methods to/for recovery and some of them have been very successful. So, I am aware that other options are available. I truly believe that it all boils down to how bad you want it and what you're willing to do to get it.

A dozen relapses, and ass-whippings later,

Does the 12 steps program work? They certainly worked for me. It worked for me because I was desperate. I had tried alternative methods, self help books, religion, psychiatry and medicine and none of it was effective. Even before that, I tried to do it alone because I believed I was Unique.

Alcoholism proved me wrong. Sure it was MY desire to stop that led me to STOP, but I could never stay stop until I got involved with a 12 step program. Through trial and error I found what works for me and the proof is revealed in the way I live today. Clean and Sober since 4/9/04.

I'm not a religious person, so I interpret the "spiritual" aspect of 12 step recovery a bit differently than some - which means my understanding of the "Higher Power" is different then others What many folks don't allow themselves a chance to learn is that even in the 12 step realm there isn't a "one size fits all" mentality, and thankfully it's not a requirement.

The stigma of being an alcoholic doesn't concern me because I've come to terms with who I am ( through self-acceptance) what others think of me isn't nearly as important as what I think of myself.

So...yes, the 12 steps work. The program is proven. The REAL question is, are you willing to WORK them? The choice is initially up to you.

I wish you well
TB

Grace2

It does say the information pack the A.A give you, that they do not tell you what to do. I suppose it's up to you and what you feel comfortable with, as long as it's helping to keep you off the dreaded poison.

I went to my first meeting last Sunday and have been to a few since. I found them really helpfull and supportave and have already made some friends. One lady phoned me last night and is taking me to a meeting in another town on Friday! i just feel I'm with people who understand, dont condemn and I dont feel so isolated. It helps hearing from people who haven't drunk for years. One of the speakers at a meeting on Monday has not drunk for 33 years and really inspired me!

I've been trying to read the steps. but dont fully understand them, but I am going to ask about them and will give it a go. Anything to stop what I've been doing.I don't understand about the Sponsers either, who they are or what they do.

Keep at it, you're doing well.

Toronto68

NN, I have been thinking about this too. Yesterday I saw someone talking about how some people will say "You'll never make it alone" (and the whole "dry drunk" vs "really recovering alcoholic" topic). It makes sense that people would take this as a smack in the face.

When you like the stories of others, is it the "I am not alone after all" effect, and seeing your sobriety reinforced? And would the meetings be different because they are in person while this site is by remote? (Asking the obvious , but there might be another reason.)

Do you know why you feel different this time? I think I am too, but I am not always sure how to articulate it. One possibility I can think of is that I see myself spelling out my issues a lot more clearly when I read my ramblings in this journal I have been keeping up. In the past I think I would have expressed my thoughts through resentments that blur the fears. This doesn't apply to you at the moment, but in my case, this is also the first time I have been away from alcohol for so long since I became of age (which is when I started drinking). So something different is going on for me, but I am still investigating.

Missymae737

TAKE WHAT YOU NEED AND LEAVE THE REST!

I enjoy going to meetings, however I don't agree with everyones way of sobriety when it comes to working a program...What works for one may not work for another...

tellus

I went to meetings for my first six months, but quickly decided that AA wasn't the way for me. I think it depends a lot on what the program is like in your area... Around here, the saying "take what you need and leave the rest" has an unspoken second part: "...as long as you do things our way." The 12 steps (specifically, the Higher Power bit) were not for me, and as such I didn't feel comfortable--or welcome--in meetings.

My suggestion is to sample everything that's available and find what works for you. Try a few more AA meetings (as I said, I stuck it out for several months before abandoning it), try SMART, try counseling... Read up on all different recovery methods and find what works for you. (For me, it turned out to be none of the above. I'm only semi-active on SR, and I don't go to any sort of meetings or regular counseling. My way is certainly a risky one, but for me it's what works best.)

notnormal

Thank you all so much.
Toronto, I guess what's changed for me is that I really don't feel the anger that I'm an alcoholic that I have in the past. I kind of feel okay with it (not saying that I don't wish I could drink normally) I just feel more grateful that I feel really good these days than I feel resentment that I can't drink and I'm trying to keep myself in this accepting place.
As for my issues with the program, it's like anything in my life I look at it and evaluate it and make a decision as to whether it's for me.. can I see my self doing that? Do I like those people, do I identify with them? Does it make me happy? the whole process is something I do knowingly and I'm sure unknowingly as well.
When I'm at a meeting for sure, as I mentioned, I like some of the people to be honest it's a small percentage. That is pretty normal for me as well as I've got a very small select group of friends (that I wouldn't trade for the world) but I don't really want to hang out with most people that I meet.
I like the stories, usually there is something that I identify with and it makes me feel less unique in the way I wish I wasn't...
Moving on to the what happened part.. there to, I enjoy the stories for similar reasons.
Now the hard part, what it's like now. This is were I struggle, not always but it's why I brought this all up.. Sometimes I listen to someone and all I can hear is that they've traded drinking for AA. Their whole life is AA and though they are happy (their words not mine) that's all they've got. The steps, the meetings, the sponsors, the chips, the coffee, the cookies, the commitments, the 90 in 90 the no relationships for a year etc. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that but it's not going to work for me.
My reason for quitting drinking is to enjoy every other thing available to me that drinking has prevented me from in the past. I want to spend quality time with the people I love, have fun, raise hell, learn new things and simply lead the full life that I'd given up for alcohol.
Once again, thank you all it's good to know that others believe that we/I can just take the parts that work for me and not stress out that I may never be the poster child for AA but at least I may not end up as the poster child for MADD either...
nn
Day 24

Toronto68

Well, I guess I can't think of what to reply with, except maybe to reinforce your recognition with enough actions that you associate with actively getting better. I think somebody here has a signature that says "it's not in or with but through..." Not sure I get what that means in my paraphrase, but it might apply to your thinking that the AA people look like AA is all they've got; and whether you "should" leave whatever the rest is. I suppose a sharper way to put it is to look at what you DO take from AA and I have a feeling you are taking the right things at this point. My little pieces of paper from a few months ago with my list of things to fix and my sobriety date on top are like a chip for me. My journal is becoming a new form of chip, I guess. The other night I actually started reading it - like a book! - and I was a little astounded that I had been putting things in there that would do me some good later on. Progress. I see myself in a process of acceptance too. Not capital S Steps, but there are steps there.

littlefish

not normal wrote: And, it doesn't have to be that way for you. I would like to respectfully point out to you that maybe you are making assumptions that might not be true about people. I used to think that one particular lady was like that: all AA, no life. But as time went on I found that I couldn't make a coffee date with her: she had work. Or, she wanted to watch a game. If I asked her to come to a particular meeting with me, she said "No, I just want to pad around my place and knit". She is a knitting nut and has had several of her patterns published in major knitting magazines and books. It turns out she has a life after all.

NEOMARXIST

You certainly ain't alone in what you are feeling. My only advice is to make sure that whatever happens you don't go back to the drink. I reckon that happens alot.

Take what you want and leave the rest. If the rest is going to make you drink again.

Go to meetings when you need them and do what is going to keep you sober. If that's working the 12 steps with a sponsor then great, if not then do what you need to do for you. Just remember to use AA to aid your sobriety and not detract from it. For me that's what it's about, living sober.

Often at AA it is misunderstood that if you don;t take the 12 steps formally with a sponsor then somehow you haven't done the work. Which I can find a little narrow-minded. You can do just as much work by approaching it in more organic ways.

One of the best shares I heard from a lady about 7 months back celebrating 3 years sober was AA = Altered Attitude. If you are getting that in your recovery then your doing good 'work'. It is possible to do just as much work without approaching it in the traditional, accepted way. That way is great as it's a layed out formula that does work. However for me I would be drinking again if I hadn't done what was right for me. That is not to say that I haven't done much work and continue to do much work, much of which is painful and it would be easy to hide-away from and not do it. But then recovery is all about healing and taking life on life's terms as best as you can.

I can look at the twelve steps and genuinely say that I try to apply all to my life. However I have slight differences on a few and that's Ok with me as it's all about taking a step back from yourself and trying to taking your own self-will out of the equation, as ultimately that will take you back drinking again. So I just chill out on it and don't think about the whole GOD thing too much. I ain't religious but I try to live spiritually in my life as best as possible without wanting to sound like some poncey, souped up new-age hippy. Just means treating people kindly to me and taking my own ego out the equation as much as possible.

If you're sober and happy about it then what else matters?
Peace

endlesspatience

Imagine if I told you that I like going to the beach but only because I enjoy sitting on the sand but I try to ignore the sea. At best you would think I was missing out on a big part of the beach experience at worst you would conclude that I was mad to try to hide from my sight the force that created the comfortable beach in the first place. It's the same in AA. The cosy environment of companionship has not appeared by accident. It has been created by a powerful external force. The members are bonding because they are committed to recovery and those who are achieving this are in the process of a spiritual transformation. I have come to the conclusion that this is the action of the Higher Power.

notnormal

Great analogy endless!
I live in san francisco and have been to the beach dozens of times but the water is so cold I've never been in....
seriously I do get what you mean.. I'll just keep and open mind and take what works for now.
nn
day 25