Stayinfree

Hi All
I'm around 3 weeks sober just now and struggling with depression that I didn't think would come back so fiercely, but I'm taking steps to deal with that, as of today!

I'll get to the point........on a few threads of late there have been people struggling to stay sober and are/have relapsed...maybe for the 100th time...I'm not sure. I read some of the replies and they make me cringe. I assume that they are posted with good intentions, but if they were replies to me relapsing...I wouldn't see it that way.

Working in the addictions field, and being a several times relapser myself, I believe that each of us has a cut off point...and that is the xth time we have relapsed...it may be 5 times for some, and, 100 times for another, we will finally get there.

I'm sure that each of us true alcoholics, have relapsed more times than we care to admit.....So if a person who joins this forum, has relpased 100 times and is in that 'place' where sobriety is the only way, then what we read from that poster is their journey of success.

But...if that person, who realises they have a problem and has only tried to quit 2, 3 or 20 times, joins this forum and continually relapses and posts about it, before they 'get there'...why are they any different from the person who HAS 'got it'.

I can understand those who have 'long term sobriety' under their belt, getting a bit miffed with the 'same old', but if that's the case then why bother to reply? If it will cause more harm than good then what is the point of getting your point across...who will it serve to help...certainly not the poor alcoholic, in dire need of support....and needing this forum more than the next drink...cos they do, and if they feel unable to come on and post again...how has that helped them?

I'm really not trying to cause an argument, but I feel for the thread starter who is struggling, and often don't understand when some people 'think' tough love will help...when often all it does is push people away?

Thanks for reading x

Bard

Well I'm a serial relapser and came back here for the who knows how many times now to tell my story of being out in the trenches. I didn't expect a great warm welcome back, got a few replies with the same old advise I heard before but then again I started a topic of the same old story I've told a hundred times before. There might be a few different things but it's pretty much the same story. But it's a relief for me anyway to at least tell it and take another stab at this whole sobriety thing again. And if anyone wants to be critical about my always leaving and coming back, well, hey I'm a big boy I can take it.

Dee74

I think this is one of the best bunches of people, and one of the best recovery sites anywhere SF.

But we are all human too.

We all make judgment calls about our responses and sometimes we choose unwisely, or we let our emotions get in the way, sure.

I think the proof in the pudding here is in how many people keep coming back, and how many folks get sober.

D

Stayinfree

Yes Dee I agree...It's the BEST I've seen anyway........for those who are staying sober it's the best support on the planet

Dee74

For those getting sober too, I think.

That meant hearing stuff I sometimes did not want to hear...but it saved my life to hear it.

I doubt I'd be here without SR.

D

Toronto68

Stayin, I have specific reasons that would contribute to what I think is depression, but the feeling would probably be there regardless, sooner or later. It's a kick in the stomach to have it come upon me, but at least I am not drinking to fiddle with the emotion factory anymore.

I'm a bit stubborn, so I have not been pursuing it professionally. I also assume it is part of post-alcohol life. I just try to work around it. Recently I was wondering whether I can time it, ha ha.

Sometimes I get miffed with the odd reply and wonder how anyone would think there would be a productive effect. Other times, I think it is the luck of the draw and people will either take the best or not. In my case, I didn't come here prior to quitting, and if I did relapse, there is a possibility I would not stick around (how arrogant and small is that).

I snapped at somebody pretty ferociously the other day on a specific topic I was defensive about, not so much on relapsing itself. Maybe I should have stayed away that day.

Anyway, back to the depression, last week was bad for me, and it got better over the weekend, and my "6 months" has felt kind of anticlimactic. But that's OK, I will get through.

I can see why you would want to open up the topic, because my next thing was to say "Post all you like"; well, that wouldn't be fun if someone replied in an abrasive manner.

Something I have noticed is that it is fortifying to be able to talk through the subjects brought up by others. I don't know whether it's because it simply takes my attention away from myself or because I like to volunteer my input.

What is it you are doing to deal with the depression as of now?

teardrop

i really aggree with you i just cant get sober ?? why ?? im under the influence now??i want to be normal

Stayinfree

Yep...I appreciate that...don't know if I would acknowlegde that to be my experience though.........point is...there's nothing that anyone can say that I haven't already said to myself..I need support, not tough love...but hey...thats just me.

Bamboozle

Hello, Stayin.

I don't do well with tough love myself.

Not everyone takes that approach, though. You'll find that the 'softies' aren't always as vocal.

keithj

It's something I struggle with, Stayinfree. What does the most good for someone struggling?

Here I go back to my own experience, and the experience of many other recovered alcoholics. I see very little practical evidence of people one day spontaneously 'getting it.' I did not spontaneously 'get it' one day. Instead, after years of inability to stay sober, I was given a program of action which I followed with all the desperation of a drowning man. The result of that was a spiritual awakening and freedom from alcoholism.

The idea that everyone has a 'cut off point' doesn't hold much merit in my experience. I see hundreds of alcoholics every year continue to do damage to themselves and others while waiting to reach this magical 'cut off point.' Quite a few of them die in the process.

So while the idea sounds good in theory, practical experience with being on one side of active alcoholism, and also with knowing what it takes from being on the other side of recovery, tells me that the idea doesn't hold much weight. It's a very attractive idea when one has not experienced real and lasting recovery.

But is it true? In my experience, it's a lie. It's false hope and it leads people away from recovery, not towards it. So when faced with putting a big smile on my face and giving someone a pat on the butt for a good, but failed, attempt, or telling them the truth that might lead to recovery, I have to go with the truth.

Because in my experience, recovery from alcoholism requires a very deep and fundamental change in one's reaction to life. Someone unwilling to do what's necessary to produce that change is hopeless, in my experience.

I can't, in good conscience, applaud what I'm pretty sure is doomed to failure. The whole, 'there, there, just get back on the horse' thing fails people over and over.

Taking the action necessary gets people recovered.

I will add, and this may be hard to hear, that I don't give much credence to ideas about sobriety from someone who hasn't been able to demonstrate any sobriety.

I see hundreds of people every year follow the 'cheerleading' brand of trying to stay sober and fail utterly. I also see many follow a time tested reliable program of recovery and never fail.

smacked

Keith, thank you for saving me a ton of typing.

Toronto68

Well, Keith, somewhere in there you had a cutting off point though. The program wasn't "given" to you, it existed there for you as a fortunate thing to turn to once you realized what it could do. You are one person who did not, to call a spade a spade, drink himself to death.

Stayin says she notices that people seem to have a cutting off point and then quitting (again, if applicable) and working on recovery ensues. What is it that is not holding water theoretically? Are you telling her that she and the people she encounters in her work had better join AA or else?

Bamboozle

And there are cheerleaders (me) who are sober.

That's what's so wonderful about this place...many different people respond better to different ways. I'm living proof...as are many other posters here.

Ra ra ra, sis boom ba...yea...me!

Boleo

Anything that you can say to yourself is self-knowledge. If self-knowledge could fix you, you would not have the ISM of alcohol-ISM.

In order get past the ISM part, what you need is the universal truth that comes from enlightenment, not individual truth.

hps

Stayinfree, I haven't seen the responses you mentioned, but I know that I would have trouble giving dispassionate advice to a chronic relapser.

Although I now have a reasonable stretch of sobriety, I am still worried that at some point I will let my guard down, have a drink, and get back to where I was before I got sober. Reading about relapsers is helpful to me as it reminds me about what I don't want to relive. But if I start writing, for example, that it's ok for someone else to relapse, then I'd worry that I'd start thinking that it's ok for me to relapse.

So if there has been extreme responses, it may be more a reflection of the vulnerability of the responders. Sobriety has been great for me, but I may never be that far away from losing it.

kaymess

I am new to this site and have been clean since 01/01/10 with no relapse in sight. Just for today. But I would hope this sight is for anyone with the "desire" to stop using or drinking. Just like the most successful recovery programs on earth. where principle before personalities is practiced. Where we all live one day at a time and just for today.

I don not plan on relapsing but I know this ..**** happens. and if it does I pray that I am strong enough and shameless enough to come back.
And I hope as each "clean" day that goes by, I hope I dont get self righteous and better than anyone. And I hope maby I can be the one who says something that finally clicks to that 100x's relapser. Because something will click sometime. Or they will probably die from it. And knowing that, I dont care how many times anyone relapses. I will feel for them and be here for them. This is what this is all about isnt it.
If the ones with a lot of sobriety cant find it in their heart to be here for the newcomer, no matter how many x's times the newcomer is a new comer, then maby he/she is cured and doesnt need this site any longer. This site is about recovery from addiction and alcoholism. Believe this, the relapser would not sign into this site if he or she didnt want to quit doing what ever it is they cant seem to be able to stop doing. Think about it.
stayinfree keep coming back !!!! scan messages, note who's "better than" and dont read their posts. mab y even suggest to whoever is reaching out for help and are getting **** back that that person isnt in to anyones recovery but their own and likes to make put down in order to feel superior. Cause thats all it really is Phuck em

Stang

I'll be on day 24 in 2 hours 15 minutes. I had a bout with depression yesterday. I think part of it was too much caffene and too little food. Called my temporary sponser and the phone just kept ringing. I thought about calling some other AA numbers but I just rode it out. It will pass but I hear mood swings can last for up to a year.
As for criticism that is life. If hearing harsh words causes relapse then there is no hope for any alcoholic. I personally think the replies here are very soft.

yeahgr8

Yeah thanks Keith you saved me a load of typing too...

I think this forum is well managed and has a good balance to it, helps a lot of people!

Everyone has got their own opinion i guess but i cant help but compare some posts to real life and, in this case, imagine someone coming into my office and saying yeah i can do marketing...ive been doing it 3 weeks, need some advice just ask...i mean cmon?!

loveon2legs

Hi Stayin' great post.. I believe in helping people out..give them the "up" that they need...if its cheerleading, well so be it..maybe that one cheerlead may just help someone out that day... and yes there is a reliable tradition out there that has helped many...I know quite a few that it hasn't... to each is their own.....everyone has their time, and their own way... I just hope they keep coming here because SR is a wonderful place to be...

Stayinfree

Thanks for the replies!

Toronto68, I got some St Johns Wort yesterday and have started taking that, I know it won't work for a while but will stick with it for a few weeks and see how it goes.

I will add, and this may be hard to hear, that I don't give much credence to ideas about sobriety from someone who hasn't been able to demonstrate any sobriety. No, not hard to hear, just your opinion, but I wasn't really giving ideas for sobriety just sharing my thoughts on what would or wouldn't work for me.

Everyone has got their own opinion i guess but i cant help but compare some posts to real life and, in this case, imagine someone coming into my office and saying yeah i can do marketing...ive been doing it 3 weeks, need some advice just ask...i mean cmon?! That wasn't my intention, I wasn't giving advice, just sharing my thoughts, how long do I need to be sober for to share those??