Liver Tests off the chart
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4
Liver Tests off the chart
Hi,
I am a 33 year old male who never really considered myself to have a problem with alcohol. I drink anywhere from 2 - 4 glasses of red wine a night. Generally 2 glasses during the week and 4 glasses on a weekend night. I have done this for probably 10 years.
I went in to my doctor for a normal physical and my numbers were off the charts.
MY LFT was 290 - 186 (I don't remember which was ALT or AST)
My cholesterol was 186 and my ferritine levels were over 2000.
My PCP put me on some choletestrol medication and since then I have seen a liver specialist and a hematologist.
My PCP never even asked, or mentioned alcohol to me. Both the liver specialist and hematologist asked me how much I drank, I told them, and they both told me that I was drinking WAAAY to much and that I needed to cease all alcohol consumption.
The liver specialist has scheduled a liver biopsy for next week.
I am a little scared and shocked at the same time. I didn't think that I was drinking WAAAY to much like the doctors told me, in fact, I didn't even believe that I was dependent on alcohol. I drank red wine because I actually thought that I was being "healthy". Apparently not.
It's been a week since the doctors told me that I needed to stop drinking. I stopp totally for 4 days, and then I realized that I was a little more dependent on the stuff than I originally thought. I have had troubles sleeping, been uncontrollably irritable and just not been a very happy person. In the last 3 nights, I have drank 2 of those nights (2 glasses of wine eah night) just because I wanted to sleep. I feel incredibly stupid and ashamed for drinking after the doctors told me not to.
I think that I am in a little bit of denial though, I have a hard time believing that alcohol is the culprit of my liver problems. But I also know how stupid it is to drink after doctors have told me not to and how stupid it is to drink on an inflammed liver.
Has anyone else here been in a similiar situation? I would like some advice. My wife drinks just as much as I do. Usually when I have 2 glasses, it is her and I splitting a bottle of wine. Yet, she has none of the health problems that I have and she is even telling me that she doesn't believe that alcohol is the problem.
Very scared and frustrated.
I am a 33 year old male who never really considered myself to have a problem with alcohol. I drink anywhere from 2 - 4 glasses of red wine a night. Generally 2 glasses during the week and 4 glasses on a weekend night. I have done this for probably 10 years.
I went in to my doctor for a normal physical and my numbers were off the charts.
MY LFT was 290 - 186 (I don't remember which was ALT or AST)
My cholesterol was 186 and my ferritine levels were over 2000.
My PCP put me on some choletestrol medication and since then I have seen a liver specialist and a hematologist.
My PCP never even asked, or mentioned alcohol to me. Both the liver specialist and hematologist asked me how much I drank, I told them, and they both told me that I was drinking WAAAY to much and that I needed to cease all alcohol consumption.
The liver specialist has scheduled a liver biopsy for next week.
I am a little scared and shocked at the same time. I didn't think that I was drinking WAAAY to much like the doctors told me, in fact, I didn't even believe that I was dependent on alcohol. I drank red wine because I actually thought that I was being "healthy". Apparently not.
It's been a week since the doctors told me that I needed to stop drinking. I stopp totally for 4 days, and then I realized that I was a little more dependent on the stuff than I originally thought. I have had troubles sleeping, been uncontrollably irritable and just not been a very happy person. In the last 3 nights, I have drank 2 of those nights (2 glasses of wine eah night) just because I wanted to sleep. I feel incredibly stupid and ashamed for drinking after the doctors told me not to.
I think that I am in a little bit of denial though, I have a hard time believing that alcohol is the culprit of my liver problems. But I also know how stupid it is to drink after doctors have told me not to and how stupid it is to drink on an inflammed liver.
Has anyone else here been in a similiar situation? I would like some advice. My wife drinks just as much as I do. Usually when I have 2 glasses, it is her and I splitting a bottle of wine. Yet, she has none of the health problems that I have and she is even telling me that she doesn't believe that alcohol is the problem.
Very scared and frustrated.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
I don't want to break forum rules by giving medical advice, so I hope I can phrase this as an observation.
I think we all have different bodies and different hereditary dispositions. Some people can drink boatloads of alcohol, for years, a lifetime, (like me) and never develop alcohol related liver disease. At the peak of my drinking career I went in for liver levels at the age of 56 and my doc told me my liver was okay: slightly elevated levels, but nothing really serious. I had a hard time believing that!
I have three brothers who have consumed massive amounts of alcohol, being lifetime active and chronic alcoholics and, you guessed it: no liver issues. Unbelieveable.
Other issues? Yeah, big time.
We are all physically unique and our bodies react differently to different substances.
I might suggest a plan that both you and your wife participate in, since you both drink wine together. Why not eliminate all alcohol from from your lifestyle, and ask your wife to support you in this?
I am a little concerned that she sounds skeptical about the medical opinions you have been given. There are non-alcohol related liver diseases, but of course a doctor will advise no alcohol in any case of liver disease and, well, she should maybe reconsider her reaction to your diagnosis....?
I think we all have different bodies and different hereditary dispositions. Some people can drink boatloads of alcohol, for years, a lifetime, (like me) and never develop alcohol related liver disease. At the peak of my drinking career I went in for liver levels at the age of 56 and my doc told me my liver was okay: slightly elevated levels, but nothing really serious. I had a hard time believing that!
I have three brothers who have consumed massive amounts of alcohol, being lifetime active and chronic alcoholics and, you guessed it: no liver issues. Unbelieveable.
Other issues? Yeah, big time.
We are all physically unique and our bodies react differently to different substances.
I might suggest a plan that both you and your wife participate in, since you both drink wine together. Why not eliminate all alcohol from from your lifestyle, and ask your wife to support you in this?
I am a little concerned that she sounds skeptical about the medical opinions you have been given. There are non-alcohol related liver diseases, but of course a doctor will advise no alcohol in any case of liver disease and, well, she should maybe reconsider her reaction to your diagnosis....?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
Welcome to SR! You find plenty of support in your quest for sobriety.
While we can not give you medical advice, I certainly can share my experience with you. I also drank for about 10 years and in fall of 2008 I went for a physical and my liver enzymes were off the chart. Somewhere in the 350+ range when the norm was 25 or so. I wasn't honest about my drinking with my dr. I was drinking rum/coke at that point and reduced drinking to wine. Numbers rerun in early 2009 and they were lower but still not normal. I then returned to rum/coke and numbers a few months later were higher. Finally later that summer I had a nasty bender and ended up in the ER for a paralyzed wrist (Saturday Night Palsy). My liver tests were back up again. I was told in the ER by the technician that alcohol will sky rocket your numbers. So if you drank within 72 hours your numbers will be off the chart. Hmmmmm.
I quit drinking Jan. 2010 (I relapsed and am in recovery again) and had full blood work up done a month sober. Perfectly normal.
My point is this. You need to stop drinking period. That simple.
I also had several abdominal ultrasounds done of the liver, kidneys, gall bladder, etc. due to the elevated numbers. If it came back abnormal then of course a liver biopsy was the next step but since my ultrasounds were ok and my numbers normal.....I have been ok.
Have you had any ultrasounds done before?
I wish you well and make you health your #1 priority. You must stop drinking and in order to remain sober you need a program of recovery in place. Please do this under your dr.s guidance.
Alcohol affects everyone differently but it is a killer. Make no mistake about that.
While we can not give you medical advice, I certainly can share my experience with you. I also drank for about 10 years and in fall of 2008 I went for a physical and my liver enzymes were off the chart. Somewhere in the 350+ range when the norm was 25 or so. I wasn't honest about my drinking with my dr. I was drinking rum/coke at that point and reduced drinking to wine. Numbers rerun in early 2009 and they were lower but still not normal. I then returned to rum/coke and numbers a few months later were higher. Finally later that summer I had a nasty bender and ended up in the ER for a paralyzed wrist (Saturday Night Palsy). My liver tests were back up again. I was told in the ER by the technician that alcohol will sky rocket your numbers. So if you drank within 72 hours your numbers will be off the chart. Hmmmmm.
I quit drinking Jan. 2010 (I relapsed and am in recovery again) and had full blood work up done a month sober. Perfectly normal.
My point is this. You need to stop drinking period. That simple.
I also had several abdominal ultrasounds done of the liver, kidneys, gall bladder, etc. due to the elevated numbers. If it came back abnormal then of course a liver biopsy was the next step but since my ultrasounds were ok and my numbers normal.....I have been ok.
Have you had any ultrasounds done before?
I wish you well and make you health your #1 priority. You must stop drinking and in order to remain sober you need a program of recovery in place. Please do this under your dr.s guidance.
Alcohol affects everyone differently but it is a killer. Make no mistake about that.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
I think that I am in a little bit of denial though
The liver specialist has scheduled a liver biopsy for next week.
I am a little scared and shocked at the same time.
I am a little scared and shocked at the same time.
The good thing is, a lot of liver damage can repair itself.. (some cannot).
If you keep drinking, your liver will not recover. Period.
I have seen people die from liver related illnesses.. it's horrifying.
It sounds like your wife might also be in denial, or she may really not believe alcohol has caused a problem, or she is protecting her enjoyment of having a drinking buddy *you*, very irresponsibly as far as your well being is concerned.
Alcohol may or may not have destroyed your liver.. there are plenty of other things that do, but we do know that it will harm you further if you continue to drink.
I'm glad you found us, if your wife isn't supportive (and she may just not understand..), we can be.
It comes down to you, your choices.. it's your life, and we all have the right to live as healthy or as dangerously as we choose to.
To actually answer one of your questions, no, my results from my doctor weren't anywhere near that 'off the charts', so I don't have experience with what you're experiencing, other than the alcohol abuse.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4
Thanks for the support.
I did have an ultrasound done last month. All they could really show was a fatty liver. The doctors are just concerned because the ferritine levels are so high.
I don't think that my wife does understand. I am a really healthy person, good diet, work out regularly. In fact, we both thought that drinking the red wine the way that we have was healthy.
Her dad is an alcoholic. Drinks everything under the sun and has done so for 30+ years. She tells me that I haven't drank anywhere near the amount that her dad drinks, ever....and that there is no way that the alcohol has affected my liver this way.
When I am having trouble sleeping, and am irritable, and all it takes is that glass of wine to help me sleep, and take away the anxiety...that's all I need to hear sometimes.
I did have an ultrasound done last month. All they could really show was a fatty liver. The doctors are just concerned because the ferritine levels are so high.
I don't think that my wife does understand. I am a really healthy person, good diet, work out regularly. In fact, we both thought that drinking the red wine the way that we have was healthy.
Her dad is an alcoholic. Drinks everything under the sun and has done so for 30+ years. She tells me that I haven't drank anywhere near the amount that her dad drinks, ever....and that there is no way that the alcohol has affected my liver this way.
When I am having trouble sleeping, and am irritable, and all it takes is that glass of wine to help me sleep, and take away the anxiety...that's all I need to hear sometimes.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Ee, what about prompting for more info? The data out there says 2 drinks is the max per day, but we also know that not all bodies are the same. I am finding it strange how the specialists sound like they were aghast at the amount while the GP was more closed mouth and calm. You were at times over that "daily rule," but is there a way to push for more information and satisfy both you and your wife as far as doubts go?
The fact that you indulged in alcohol after medical advice not to is a sign that there might be some dependency in you (maybe early, maybe more?), but don't look upon it as the end of the world; instead be glad you recognize this. I also like the approaches Littlefish replied with. There is good reason to be serious, because a lot of people don't realize how deadly alcohol can be. But you can't live with a dark cloud over you either, you should explore what else you can do without alcohol in the picture while you work on your health improvements.
The fact that you indulged in alcohol after medical advice not to is a sign that there might be some dependency in you (maybe early, maybe more?), but don't look upon it as the end of the world; instead be glad you recognize this. I also like the approaches Littlefish replied with. There is good reason to be serious, because a lot of people don't realize how deadly alcohol can be. But you can't live with a dark cloud over you either, you should explore what else you can do without alcohol in the picture while you work on your health improvements.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Ee, yes and your wife is going by the father as a measurement but that is only one person. I can see why there would be doubt or resistance to the idea, but there might be more to the story; maybe you are a person who simply cannot have very much alcohol and be safe. That's why I thought exercising some additional curiosity through questioning or testing might be a good idea.
The sleeping issue is an awful thing, and that is something that drives me nuts sometimes, but you have to make sure alcohol is not the solution for that.
The sleeping issue is an awful thing, and that is something that drives me nuts sometimes, but you have to make sure alcohol is not the solution for that.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Ee, you may want to research this information. Nonalcoholic Cirrhosis....(meaning even people who do not drink "massive amounts" are prone to developing tumors on the liver). your nephrologist can explain everything to you.
I work for a large Medical School. we just had a guest speaker doc. last month who lectured on this and published a paper.... i will try to look it up and get his name for you.
I've had very high liver enzymes (GGT, GGTP) in the past that completely normalized after abstaining and taking milk thistle/tumeric/and artichoke (it's a supplement) for 3 months....i also stopped taking Tylenol at the time on the advice of my doc.
you can do a search on supplements that are reported to help support your liver function.... be back after I will try to find that name for you so you can get a copy of the publication, they usually will send them to you for free.
I work for a large Medical School. we just had a guest speaker doc. last month who lectured on this and published a paper.... i will try to look it up and get his name for you.
I've had very high liver enzymes (GGT, GGTP) in the past that completely normalized after abstaining and taking milk thistle/tumeric/and artichoke (it's a supplement) for 3 months....i also stopped taking Tylenol at the time on the advice of my doc.
you can do a search on supplements that are reported to help support your liver function.... be back after I will try to find that name for you so you can get a copy of the publication, they usually will send them to you for free.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hmm...
Did your doctor mention hemochromatosis? With those high ferritin levels and all... the biopsy will prove it.
If someone has significant liver problems... then any alcohol consumption can make it way worse. Throwing gasoline on the fire kind of thing. That's why it was recommended that you not drink...
Try to be grateful that your physician found a possible problem before it was too late.
Mark
Did your doctor mention hemochromatosis? With those high ferritin levels and all... the biopsy will prove it.
If someone has significant liver problems... then any alcohol consumption can make it way worse. Throwing gasoline on the fire kind of thing. That's why it was recommended that you not drink...
Try to be grateful that your physician found a possible problem before it was too late.
Mark
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
I'm sure you've researched the heck out of your blood levels, but I found this pretty interesting, and scary. So glad you're under a doctor's care.. I hope you find the strength to follow his advice. Even if the issues aren't alcohol related, your liver seems pretty sick..
Very high ferritin levels (greater than 1,000 ng/mL) can mean a large buildup of iron in the body (hemochromatosis). One form of this condition is passed on in families (genetic hemochromatosis). Some diseases, including alcoholism, thalassemia, and some types of anemia that cause red blood cells to be destroyed, can also cause hemochromatosis. Also, if you have many blood transfusions, this can sometimes cause the body to store too much iron (acquired hemochromatosis).
High ferritin levels may also be caused by liver disease (cirrhosis or hepatitis), Hodgkin's disease, leukemia, infection, inflammatory conditions (such as arthritis or lupus), or a diet that is too high in iron.
High ferritin levels may also be caused by liver disease (cirrhosis or hepatitis), Hodgkin's disease, leukemia, infection, inflammatory conditions (such as arthritis or lupus), or a diet that is too high in iron.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Here is the Topic I was talking about and the name of the doctor that published the paper, in case anyone is interested...
and i agree with Mark...your doctor is on top of his game,
If you want the benefits of red wine, you can take good quality resveratrol supplements.
ON SITE 8:00am - 9:00am
Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver Disease: A Burgeoning Epidemic
Campus:
Details :
Location: Conference Center Room: 1302
Speaker: Sanjiv Chopra, MD, FACP, prof. of med., faculty dean for continuing education, Harvard Medical School
and i agree with Mark...your doctor is on top of his game,
If you want the benefits of red wine, you can take good quality resveratrol supplements.
ON SITE 8:00am - 9:00am
Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver Disease: A Burgeoning Epidemic
Campus:
Details :
Location: Conference Center Room: 1302
Speaker: Sanjiv Chopra, MD, FACP, prof. of med., faculty dean for continuing education, Harvard Medical School
SR Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,910
Hi eereed and welcome! You've come to the right place for support. Not being able to stop drinking, even when we are determined to, is a real red flag. The irritability, craving and insomnia are also typical of withdrawal. The good news is that you found out now and are under a doctor's care. If your wife is determined to continue drinking, maybe she can at least respect your wish not to have an alcohol in the house.
Hope for the very, very best for you. Please keep us posted.
Hope for the very, very best for you. Please keep us posted.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,378
Hi eereed
Welcoem to SR
I hope the biopsy will help determine exactly whats going on and that whatever it is is easily treatable. Best of luck
I hope you'll ask your Dr about your sleep issues, if they continue. Alcohol is not actually the most effective aid for sleep, so maybe there's something else going on.
Drinking on existing liver problems is living a bit too close to the edge for mine.
D
Welcoem to SR
I hope the biopsy will help determine exactly whats going on and that whatever it is is easily treatable. Best of luck
I hope you'll ask your Dr about your sleep issues, if they continue. Alcohol is not actually the most effective aid for sleep, so maybe there's something else going on.
Drinking on existing liver problems is living a bit too close to the edge for mine.
D
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
There are 9 units of alcohol in a bottle of wine.
You are having 2 glasses and your wife 2? Thats 4.5 units for every 2 glasses, lets say you do 20 glasses a week then thats 45 units.
The max amount of units per week, 21 for men and 14 for women, is not recommended weekly allowance it is the maximum that you can drink before causing potential long term health issues.
When the myth of a glass of red wine every so often helps the blood they mean a unit worth, i.e. a 1/9th of a bottle and they don't mean everyday...
This is why you have health issues, but as was pointed out the liver is the only organ that regenerates so odds are good if you get help to stop now you may recover:-)
You are having 2 glasses and your wife 2? Thats 4.5 units for every 2 glasses, lets say you do 20 glasses a week then thats 45 units.
The max amount of units per week, 21 for men and 14 for women, is not recommended weekly allowance it is the maximum that you can drink before causing potential long term health issues.
When the myth of a glass of red wine every so often helps the blood they mean a unit worth, i.e. a 1/9th of a bottle and they don't mean everyday...
This is why you have health issues, but as was pointed out the liver is the only organ that regenerates so odds are good if you get help to stop now you may recover:-)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: north carolina
Posts: 74
keep us posted eereed, sounds like the ultrasound was OK.
Although the specifics differ a bit, I'm in a similar situation. Stopped drinking 2 months ago, enzymes have been dropping. Primary care doc says he expects full recovery, but I haven't seen a liver specialist. We'll see. Waiting is the hard part. I just want to get an ultrasound and/or biopsy NOW.
Although the specifics differ a bit, I'm in a similar situation. Stopped drinking 2 months ago, enzymes have been dropping. Primary care doc says he expects full recovery, but I haven't seen a liver specialist. We'll see. Waiting is the hard part. I just want to get an ultrasound and/or biopsy NOW.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
