progressive nature?
April 18, 2010
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,117
progressive nature?
Hi everyone,
Something has been running around in the back of my mind. I am almost finished reading _Under the Influence_ and one of the things that the book stresses is that alcoholism is a progressive disease. I'm having difficulty with this one, because although a lot of the definitions of alcoholism fit me, this one doesn't.
A few years ago, when I was 25-26, my hands often shook in the mornings, but that no longer happens. In college and shortly after, I would black out a couple of times a month, but I can only "recall" (funny way to put it) one black out this past year. And when I quit -- 14 days ago now, woo! -- I experienced only mild symptoms.
Anyway, I am trying to reconcile this. I'm not looking for an excuse to drink moderately (I still want to quit entirely, and I've never felt this way for so long) but I guess I was wondering if anyone can relate to this experience or maybe help explain things or why for me it has not been progressively worse (increased tolerance? also, I quit for several days in a row three times in January (due to kidney pain, so scary)) so maybe it's the opposite?). UGH, this is frustrating to me. I just want to feel clear calling myself an alcoholic (I am 90% comfortable with it, but there is this lingering 10%) because it seems so semantic and confusing, with everyone having different definitions. The one thing I know is that I cannot control it consistently/am powerless in this way, and that when I drink it is like a game of Russian Roulette as far as what is going to happen. And I know that I come from a long line of alcoholics. Progressive nature aside, is meeting those other terms enough to label myself such?
I'm so frustrated, and I feel weird about trying AA until I have a better sense of this.
Something has been running around in the back of my mind. I am almost finished reading _Under the Influence_ and one of the things that the book stresses is that alcoholism is a progressive disease. I'm having difficulty with this one, because although a lot of the definitions of alcoholism fit me, this one doesn't.
A few years ago, when I was 25-26, my hands often shook in the mornings, but that no longer happens. In college and shortly after, I would black out a couple of times a month, but I can only "recall" (funny way to put it) one black out this past year. And when I quit -- 14 days ago now, woo! -- I experienced only mild symptoms.
Anyway, I am trying to reconcile this. I'm not looking for an excuse to drink moderately (I still want to quit entirely, and I've never felt this way for so long) but I guess I was wondering if anyone can relate to this experience or maybe help explain things or why for me it has not been progressively worse (increased tolerance? also, I quit for several days in a row three times in January (due to kidney pain, so scary)) so maybe it's the opposite?). UGH, this is frustrating to me. I just want to feel clear calling myself an alcoholic (I am 90% comfortable with it, but there is this lingering 10%) because it seems so semantic and confusing, with everyone having different definitions. The one thing I know is that I cannot control it consistently/am powerless in this way, and that when I drink it is like a game of Russian Roulette as far as what is going to happen. And I know that I come from a long line of alcoholics. Progressive nature aside, is meeting those other terms enough to label myself such?
I'm so frustrated, and I feel weird about trying AA until I have a better sense of this.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
You don't have to label yourself as alcoholic to know that alcohol is causing problems in your life/health. It doesn't matter what name you put on it, what matters is that you're doing something to solve the problem: quitting drinking. I wouldn't worry too much about words, just results.
Alcoholism IS progressive, it just takes different lengths of time for each of us to reach a 'danger point'. I think you're smart to quit now instead of waiting for something awful to happen.
Alcoholism IS progressive, it just takes different lengths of time for each of us to reach a 'danger point'. I think you're smart to quit now instead of waiting for something awful to happen.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
I didn't believe I was 100% alcoholic when I went in to AA. The first time I said "my name is Lisa and I'm an alcoholic" it just kind of came out. I wasn't struck by lightning for lying=)
There is a part of me that still wants to hold on to my uniqueness. To say "I AM different, and I can do this MY way"
But I have listened to so many stories of people who have gone back to drinking, and ended up in terrible pain, and I am terrified to do that.
So, I go to the meetings and I identify as an alcoholic ( today I am fine with the label, anyone as petrified of drinking as me surely must have a reason =).
I do the steps, follow suggestions (for the most part), and try and improve my spiritual health.
As far as the progression, I thought I was just fine (28 years of daily drinking) until my last night drinking, when I blacked out. The next day I had to hear the repulsive story of my behavior, and knew I could never chance it again. Looking back, I think i was in pretty big trouble and in a lot of pain towards the end. Looking back, that horrible night was the beginning of my recovery journey, which has given me a life so wonderful I am constantly amazed.
There is a part of me that still wants to hold on to my uniqueness. To say "I AM different, and I can do this MY way"
But I have listened to so many stories of people who have gone back to drinking, and ended up in terrible pain, and I am terrified to do that.
So, I go to the meetings and I identify as an alcoholic ( today I am fine with the label, anyone as petrified of drinking as me surely must have a reason =).
I do the steps, follow suggestions (for the most part), and try and improve my spiritual health.
As far as the progression, I thought I was just fine (28 years of daily drinking) until my last night drinking, when I blacked out. The next day I had to hear the repulsive story of my behavior, and knew I could never chance it again. Looking back, I think i was in pretty big trouble and in a lot of pain towards the end. Looking back, that horrible night was the beginning of my recovery journey, which has given me a life so wonderful I am constantly amazed.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: far far from home
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by AmericanGirl 
The one thing I know is that I cannot control it consistently/am powerless in this way, and that when I drink it is like a game of Russian Roulette as far as what is going to happen. And I know that I come from a long line of alcoholics. Progressive nature aside, is meeting those other terms enough to label myself such?
I'm so frustrated, and I feel weird about trying AA until I have a better sense of this.
I'm so frustrated, and I feel weird about trying AA until I have a better sense of this.
Figure the progressive thing out later... Russian Roulette implies that any time you take a drink you could kill yourself...think thats enough to give AA a shot?
I was told to resign from the debating society and if I thought I had a problem with booze then I was probably an alcoholic. Plus, starting and not being alble to stop drinking is what defines us IMHO.
Awakening
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 290
I am kinda the same way. My drinking progressed sideways. I went from drinking a 12-pack or more on Friday and/or Saturday night, to drinking like 4-6 beers most nights of the week. However, as time went on, I found it harder and harder to quit for more than a day or two at a time (whereas, when I was weekend bingeing, I would go a full week sober before getting tanked again).
I think everyone is just different. I base my self-identification as an alcoholic more on my difficulty with (and obsessing about) quitting all the time, yet being unable to give it up. That and the usual feeling hungover all the time reasons.
Rev
I think everyone is just different. I base my self-identification as an alcoholic more on my difficulty with (and obsessing about) quitting all the time, yet being unable to give it up. That and the usual feeling hungover all the time reasons.
Rev
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Hi there
We all have very different drinking histories, i cannot stress that enough...i sit in the rooms with people that didn't start drinking until their kids were 18 and only drank for 3 years...with people that binge drank every 6-8 weeks with nothing in between...for your own sake don't go there, start comparing your drinking with others...
You don't figure this stuff out then go to AA, that kept me away for ages...i even thought well ill get some dry time behind me first, maybe a month and then go...kind of like getting your doctorate then enrolling in medical school!!!!
I think you are in a great place to go to a meeting and see what you think, keep an open mind and focus on the similarities not the differences...look for the signs of how drinking affected the people, how they felt, their attempts at control...those are the things we have in common...
As for the label, call yourself what you want, a drunk, a lush...thesaurus it and pick a word...problem drinker, alcohol abuser, drinks too much, addicted to alcohol,...as long as your not denying what you have been doing or what you are any word will do...who cares...IMO in AA it is important to introduce oneself as an alcoholic because it shoots straight through the denial and also means you are now sitting in a room full of other alcoholics the same as you...we all suffer/ed from terminal uniqueness thinking we are different to others in this sense and we are not...thats just rationalising the behaviour and ensuring it continues:-)
We all have very different drinking histories, i cannot stress that enough...i sit in the rooms with people that didn't start drinking until their kids were 18 and only drank for 3 years...with people that binge drank every 6-8 weeks with nothing in between...for your own sake don't go there, start comparing your drinking with others...
You don't figure this stuff out then go to AA, that kept me away for ages...i even thought well ill get some dry time behind me first, maybe a month and then go...kind of like getting your doctorate then enrolling in medical school!!!!
I think you are in a great place to go to a meeting and see what you think, keep an open mind and focus on the similarities not the differences...look for the signs of how drinking affected the people, how they felt, their attempts at control...those are the things we have in common...
As for the label, call yourself what you want, a drunk, a lush...thesaurus it and pick a word...problem drinker, alcohol abuser, drinks too much, addicted to alcohol,...as long as your not denying what you have been doing or what you are any word will do...who cares...IMO in AA it is important to introduce oneself as an alcoholic because it shoots straight through the denial and also means you are now sitting in a room full of other alcoholics the same as you...we all suffer/ed from terminal uniqueness thinking we are different to others in this sense and we are not...thats just rationalising the behaviour and ensuring it continues:-)
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
The progressive nature of alcoholism is not about identifying or a way to work step one. The presence or absence of progression should not be a factor in your journey to your truth.
And consider this.... What is it that progresses, actually? Volume, ie... number of drinks at a time? In other words... quantity... That doesn't hold up well to scrutiny as a yard stick... end stage alkies with burned out livers need less alcohol to get to the same level inebriation... Not to mention the problems with quantifying bingers... And I'm sure there are other examples to counter the quantity consideration in terms of progression...
No, I believe progression happens in a qualitative fashion... the hole in one's soul, the reasons why one drinks, the obsession and the compulsion to drink alcohol... Those are things all real alcoholics can relate to...
I was a daily drinker, rarely blacked out, but I have much in common with the binge drinking alcoholic who blacked out every time... In fact, on the surface, my consumption may have been less noticeable but could have easily been more... taken over a week's or month's time... Know what I mean?
Well, those are my opinions and my experience, that's all...
Many discuss how the "disease" progresses even after we've recovered. I can't comment on that, I have not relapsed.
Mark
And consider this.... What is it that progresses, actually? Volume, ie... number of drinks at a time? In other words... quantity... That doesn't hold up well to scrutiny as a yard stick... end stage alkies with burned out livers need less alcohol to get to the same level inebriation... Not to mention the problems with quantifying bingers... And I'm sure there are other examples to counter the quantity consideration in terms of progression...
No, I believe progression happens in a qualitative fashion... the hole in one's soul, the reasons why one drinks, the obsession and the compulsion to drink alcohol... Those are things all real alcoholics can relate to...
I was a daily drinker, rarely blacked out, but I have much in common with the binge drinking alcoholic who blacked out every time... In fact, on the surface, my consumption may have been less noticeable but could have easily been more... taken over a week's or month's time... Know what I mean?
Well, those are my opinions and my experience, that's all...
Many discuss how the "disease" progresses even after we've recovered. I can't comment on that, I have not relapsed.
Mark
April 18, 2010
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,117
Hi folks. Thanks so much for all your comments. I see that I have more to gain by focusing on what is similar about my addition than by quibbling over this part, so I'm going to stop stressing about definitions for the time being. (Lisa, I like your "not struck by lightening" comment, ha. I hope when the time is right it will be as easy for me to just come out and say it.) Mark, your distinction about internal/emotional progression is well put and very true. Thanks to everybody for the support.
Sober 6/5/2008
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Point Vermin, Peedro, CA
Posts: 150
I never went to jail. Never got caught. Never homeless. Didn't fight, get angry, or abusive. Never drank first thing or got the shakes. But--
I couldn't remember the last time I didn't go to bed drunk. My greatest skill in life was drinking as much as I could possible get away with.
At 695 days sober my life is not without problems; I'm unemployed again and my girl and I are growing distant. Yet I am so grateful I don't have to live my life that way anymore, inshallah.
This last year has been one of the best ever. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another one even better coming up. My life didn't used to be like that.
I couldn't remember the last time I didn't go to bed drunk. My greatest skill in life was drinking as much as I could possible get away with.
At 695 days sober my life is not without problems; I'm unemployed again and my girl and I are growing distant. Yet I am so grateful I don't have to live my life that way anymore, inshallah.
This last year has been one of the best ever. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another one even better coming up. My life didn't used to be like that.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
Lots of good stuff in this thread
I'll only add I spent years arguing internally whether I was an alcoholic or not, when I think, in my case, that endless inner dialogue actually contributed to stopping me from seeing the reality and accepting that my drinking was destroying me and I needed to act....
D
I'll only add I spent years arguing internally whether I was an alcoholic or not, when I think, in my case, that endless inner dialogue actually contributed to stopping me from seeing the reality and accepting that my drinking was destroying me and I needed to act....
D
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
Here's my take on the progression of alcoholism. I was sober for eleven year. Well, sober for eight, just not drinking for three more.
Anyway, I drank again. It was like I'd never stopped. It took me even more to get drunk and I got very bad, very fast.
To me, that was the progression. And that's why I know for me to content, happy and to live a life worth living, I have to work on my recovery every day.
Love,
Lenina
Anyway, I drank again. It was like I'd never stopped. It took me even more to get drunk and I got very bad, very fast.
To me, that was the progression. And that's why I know for me to content, happy and to live a life worth living, I have to work on my recovery every day.
Love,
Lenina
Awakening
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by coffeenut
I've never regretted being sober.
Rev
Guest
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
For me simply it's progressive in that it will mash your head more and more overtime. You begin to get all manner of psychological and physiological things start to creep in subtley.
It becomes very easy to forget all of the strange, weird little tingles and pins and needles feelings in my fingers and hands and the horrible panic and anxiety but if I was to ever take another drink then they would be straight back again.
I think once you realise you have a problem but fight with it and keep riding the merry-go-round then your mental health really takes a battering. Bearing in mind that mental health of many alcoholics/addicts is often a little 'vulnerable' to start with, then it's easy to see how one can go into mental breakdown.
It becomes very easy to forget all of the strange, weird little tingles and pins and needles feelings in my fingers and hands and the horrible panic and anxiety but if I was to ever take another drink then they would be straight back again.
I think once you realise you have a problem but fight with it and keep riding the merry-go-round then your mental health really takes a battering. Bearing in mind that mental health of many alcoholics/addicts is often a little 'vulnerable' to start with, then it's easy to see how one can go into mental breakdown.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 48
As an observer, alcohol has been progressive in our house:
My wife drank occasionally at home -> drank socially -> drank with drinking buddies -> drank daily at home (lying starts) -> drank to excess daily (hiding bottles starts) -> drinking at work/fired -> passed out nightly -> hospitalized for acute liver failure -> passed out day and night -> becomes extremely belligerent -> sobriety or death -> restart drinking -> sobriety or death -> restart drinking -> sobriety or death -> ect until death. She is currently in a recovery cycle.
Codependence is progressive also. It starts with an abrupt realization -> frantic search for a cure/help -> learning -> loss of hope -> resignation (stay) or self preservation (leave) either way there is lifelong pain.
My wife drank occasionally at home -> drank socially -> drank with drinking buddies -> drank daily at home (lying starts) -> drank to excess daily (hiding bottles starts) -> drinking at work/fired -> passed out nightly -> hospitalized for acute liver failure -> passed out day and night -> becomes extremely belligerent -> sobriety or death -> restart drinking -> sobriety or death -> restart drinking -> sobriety or death -> ect until death. She is currently in a recovery cycle.
Codependence is progressive also. It starts with an abrupt realization -> frantic search for a cure/help -> learning -> loss of hope -> resignation (stay) or self preservation (leave) either way there is lifelong pain.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
What a great thread and massive food for thought.
Not really adding too much here other than that I am not the person anyone would ever think was alcoholic. When I admitted to some people that I had a drinking problem it was WHOOOOAAAAA no way!!! Yes - way.
For me alcohol was progressive. Over the years, I drank more and more and while I never had an arrest, DUI/DWI....etc. I found it took over my life.
My health went to crap and I didn't really know until I admitted to excessive drinking and my liver/kidney tests were abnormal.
Never had anxiety/panic attacks until about 9 years into steady drinking (this happened when I began massive binging...meaning days of sitting in and drinking from morning till I passed out).
Panic/anxiety gone and blood tests normal when sober.....so for me the booze was killing me. Took many years of abuse before it finally started eating me up.
For me I know drinking can't be moderated, makes me feel awful, makes me hate myself and my life and no one likes me when I am drunk. It is negative so that is why I chose to go sober. I had really nothing left but to get sober. That is how I see that I am alcoholic.
Took me a long time to get it though....thats for sure.....and my relapse was the best thing to happen to me now I that I am sober. I now put my recovery as #1 priority in my life. I walk the line.
Not really adding too much here other than that I am not the person anyone would ever think was alcoholic. When I admitted to some people that I had a drinking problem it was WHOOOOAAAAA no way!!! Yes - way.
For me alcohol was progressive. Over the years, I drank more and more and while I never had an arrest, DUI/DWI....etc. I found it took over my life.
My health went to crap and I didn't really know until I admitted to excessive drinking and my liver/kidney tests were abnormal.
Never had anxiety/panic attacks until about 9 years into steady drinking (this happened when I began massive binging...meaning days of sitting in and drinking from morning till I passed out).
Panic/anxiety gone and blood tests normal when sober.....so for me the booze was killing me. Took many years of abuse before it finally started eating me up.
For me I know drinking can't be moderated, makes me feel awful, makes me hate myself and my life and no one likes me when I am drunk. It is negative so that is why I chose to go sober. I had really nothing left but to get sober. That is how I see that I am alcoholic.
Took me a long time to get it though....thats for sure.....and my relapse was the best thing to happen to me now I that I am sober. I now put my recovery as #1 priority in my life. I walk the line.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 174
I started when I was 15 and quit ten days before I turned 25. In that time I went from one night a weekend, to two nights a weekend, to as many days as I could find someone to drink with, to saying "hell, I can just drink on my own!", to drinking in the morning when I woke up, to staying drunk for weeks at a time. I've tried moderating and cutting back so many times and no matter how long I'm off the drink for as soon as I have ONE I'm back to my old tricks in no time.
So for me it was definitely progressive. If I continued to drink as I was I doubt I'd make it past my 35th birthday.
So for me it was definitely progressive. If I continued to drink as I was I doubt I'd make it past my 35th birthday.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: moving target
Posts: 956
Progressive is an understatement
You, if you continue drinking, will develop an amazing tolerance. After years, your body doesn't react to the drug in a 'high' way, it simply makes you feel less anxious. Then you start a long downhill slide trying to remember why you drank in the first place. I know what that feels like- and being sober is much better. However I still am having a struggle. Hope you don't have to.
Dub
Dub
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