Messed up big time, back to square one
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Racerx,
I appreciate your viewpoint on this. My post was not meant to be an attack. Advice was given to someone who has relapsed on how to handle that relapse. Things to do were suggested. Those things to do were recommended by somebody who keeps relapsing. I don't think those facts are debateable.
My seemingly attacking posts comes down to the very simple idea of 'does it work'? Does forgiving yourself and learning from a relapse help someone from repeating that relapse? I think the answer is obviously not.
Over and over, advice is given in this forum from people who have not been able to stay sober. That advice is a great example of what not to do. If you want to keep relapsing, do what people who keep relapsing recommend. If you want to recover, do what people who have recovered recommend.
This truly is life or death business. If some feelings get hurt along the way, that's unfortunate, but it's a lot better than telling someone to do things that haven't worked.
I appreciate your viewpoint on this. My post was not meant to be an attack. Advice was given to someone who has relapsed on how to handle that relapse. Things to do were suggested. Those things to do were recommended by somebody who keeps relapsing. I don't think those facts are debateable.
My seemingly attacking posts comes down to the very simple idea of 'does it work'? Does forgiving yourself and learning from a relapse help someone from repeating that relapse? I think the answer is obviously not.
Over and over, advice is given in this forum from people who have not been able to stay sober. That advice is a great example of what not to do. If you want to keep relapsing, do what people who keep relapsing recommend. If you want to recover, do what people who have recovered recommend.
This truly is life or death business. If some feelings get hurt along the way, that's unfortunate, but it's a lot better than telling someone to do things that haven't worked.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by keithj 
Racerx,
I appreciate your viewpoint on this. My post was not meant to be an attack. Advice was given to someone who has relapsed on how to handle that relapse. Things to do were suggested. Those things to do were recommended by somebody who keeps relapsing. I don't think those facts are debateable.
My seemingly attacking posts comes down to the very simple idea of 'does it work'? Does forgiving yourself and learning from a relapse help someone from repeating that relapse? I think the answer is obviously not.
Over and over, advice is given in this forum from people who have not been able to stay sober. That advice is a great example of what not to do. If you want to keep relapsing, do what people who keep relapsing recommend. If you want to recover, do what people who have recovered recommend.
This truly is life or death business. If some feelings get hurt along the way, that's unfortunate, but it's a lot better than telling someone to do things that haven't worked.
I appreciate your viewpoint on this. My post was not meant to be an attack. Advice was given to someone who has relapsed on how to handle that relapse. Things to do were suggested. Those things to do were recommended by somebody who keeps relapsing. I don't think those facts are debateable.
My seemingly attacking posts comes down to the very simple idea of 'does it work'? Does forgiving yourself and learning from a relapse help someone from repeating that relapse? I think the answer is obviously not.
Over and over, advice is given in this forum from people who have not been able to stay sober. That advice is a great example of what not to do. If you want to keep relapsing, do what people who keep relapsing recommend. If you want to recover, do what people who have recovered recommend.
This truly is life or death business. If some feelings get hurt along the way, that's unfortunate, but it's a lot better than telling someone to do things that haven't worked.
That said, I've spoken to many old timers at my AA group that did use "forgiving and learning" from their relapses as PART of their success in now staying sober. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
Again, I'm not sure how calling out a member is helpful but that's your decision to make, not mine. Maybe it would have been better to stick to the points made instead of the one making the points?
Again, your choice and just my $0.02 worth!
RacerX
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Racerx,
There's a common phenomenon in the rooms of AA of loving someone to death. Chronic relapser keeps coming through the doors, everyone greets them with open arms, tells them they love 'em, offers encouragement, and fails to tell them the truth. Person stays sober on the feeling of acceptance and love for a few months, then they are back out the door. They repeat this over and over.
Why don't we share the truth? My guess is, because we are too afraid of having people judge us harshly. The truth for me is, I did not recover by being loved, having support, or being surrounded by people who told me to keep my chin up and just keep trying, doing the same things over and over again. I recovered by being desperate enough to do what others had done in order to recover.
Funny as it may sound, I care enough about the suffering alcoholic to tell him the truth, even if it means I'll take some heat for it.
There's a common phenomenon in the rooms of AA of loving someone to death. Chronic relapser keeps coming through the doors, everyone greets them with open arms, tells them they love 'em, offers encouragement, and fails to tell them the truth. Person stays sober on the feeling of acceptance and love for a few months, then they are back out the door. They repeat this over and over.
Why don't we share the truth? My guess is, because we are too afraid of having people judge us harshly. The truth for me is, I did not recover by being loved, having support, or being surrounded by people who told me to keep my chin up and just keep trying, doing the same things over and over again. I recovered by being desperate enough to do what others had done in order to recover.
Funny as it may sound, I care enough about the suffering alcoholic to tell him the truth, even if it means I'll take some heat for it.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by keithj
Not really. The viewpoint comes from someone who is unable to stay sober. Forgiving myself, learning from my relapse, etc.; have those things enabled that person to stay sober? Has it worked for them?
And I don't mean to be offensive to coming_clean. If those ideas worked, he'd be staying sober instead of continually relapsing. The facts are what they are.
And I don't mean to be offensive to coming_clean. If those ideas worked, he'd be staying sober instead of continually relapsing. The facts are what they are.
I know in my early recovery I went through all the doubtful questions in my mind,....is it worth it,...and so on. I have relapsed in thought but never picked up
(relapse starts with a thought or feeling that one can't process in a healthy manner, picking up is the end result)
for me picking up means I will die! I've been told my thinking is black and white but that's what has worked for me.
I'm still participating with the aftercare group at the rehab centre I went through and I see guys relapse all the time,...I've been to a couple funerals as well.
Cunning,..baffling,..and powerful. So true,...
but one thing I know is I can't do some one else's recovery for them. I can offer my experiences and encourage 12 step meetings.
I have to accept that others have to find their own way,....I only know what works for me. I pray every day for the alcoholic or addict that still suffers,........
because it breaks my heart that this disease can destroy so many beautiful people.
What kept me going were the slogans,...keep an open mind and keep coming back. Eventually the mind will follow.
I try not to sound preachy because I know it doesn't do anyone any good,...
I try to encourage people to just hang in there for one more day. "Today" and tomorrow will look after itself.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,444
Originally Posted by keithj
The truth for me is, I did not recover by being loved.
We do not all have the same perspective and your truth is not valid for everyone.
Let's focus on the O/P and keep sharing and supporting Lostmyway.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE and then South some more
Posts: 2,648
lostmyway, first of all, here...... 
I have recently started working in a sober residential facility and relapses happen there too. Some of the girls have several months and go back out. I do not think any less of them than I do you. Get back up, dust yourself off and know that your 48 days still meant something. Believe that!!!
Think of what it was that got you, talk to your sponsor, share at a meeting and of course, keep reading here.
I think most of us have gone through the relapse thing and it's a learning process. Remember, "progress, not perfection" and this is another step in getting and staying sober. Hope you're feeling better soon.
I have recently started working in a sober residential facility and relapses happen there too. Some of the girls have several months and go back out. I do not think any less of them than I do you. Get back up, dust yourself off and know that your 48 days still meant something. Believe that!!!
Think of what it was that got you, talk to your sponsor, share at a meeting and of course, keep reading here.
I think most of us have gone through the relapse thing and it's a learning process. Remember, "progress, not perfection" and this is another step in getting and staying sober. Hope you're feeling better soon.
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