Step 9 Loophole?????
 

Only an alcoholic mind would think like this:

Rather than hijack a reply within a thread which caused me great bewilderment, I thought I'd start a new thread and see what others have to say. I appreciate this coming up and have always wondered if AA has a loophole in Step 9, most notably "Except when to do so would injure them or others." I often look at this as a loophole in the program of AA. Who is to decide this. Is it up to the individual? I am working on step 4 at the moment and have some closet issues I'd rather not bring up. I believe they would be hurtful to others. Are we talking physical harm? Emotional harm? I don't know. But they sure as heck are issues I don't want to bring up. And I know I would not be working a completely honest program by eliminating this, but as I said, I believe the quotes above give me the opportunity to do this. Can someone explain?

Ciao

I do not know the exact nature of the situation, but it really does not matter. I would suggest not doing step 4 without a sponsor's guidance. In answer to your question though, I would make sure the house cleaning is thorough, this is a program of honesty. Furthermore, step 8, "Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became "willing" to make amends to them all." "Willing" is the arcane piece to that step. There will be situations where making an amend is just outside of the realm of possibility. This is where the sponsor becomes vital in assisting with amends and house cleaning. I have heard of 9th steps that landed people in the department of corrections. Watch "My Name is Earl", that's how to NOT do a 9th step, lol. Hope this has been helpful.

A good sponsor is the best person to explain. First, eyemitalian, it is best to not even consider Step 9 until you are working on Step 9. Once I have my list in Step 8 (compiled mainly from my Step 4), and have become willing to make amends to ALL those I've harmed, only then do I discuss whether or not some of those amends are best left undone. The final judge of that is found through prayer and meditation.

What it boils down to is I don't get to do further damage just so I can asuage my guilt and feel better about myself. The book offers several examples concerning extramarital affairs, legal issues, money issues, etc. In every case, the person must be willing to face any personal consequence to set things right.

The 4th Step is a whole other beast. Nothing counts there except thoroughness and honesty. Everything needs to be divulged. When I have guys 5th Step with me, after we get done going through their inventory, I give them the opportunity to divulge the 5 things that they didn't put on their list. The 5 things they swore they would never tell anybody. And I give the opportunity that if they aren't comfy with me, to divulge those things to a priest or some trusted and close mouthed person.

This is some of the danger of reading the Steps off the wall instead of the specific directions in the pages of the Big Book.

How I look at the "except when to do so would injure them or others" is if someone is really mad at you for something you did, it is good for you to look at that situation and see where what you did or said was wrong or inappropriate and then maybe the BEST way to handle that is to leave that person alone. To go to them to apologize would only make matters worse. Stir the pot so to speak.

Sometimes our making amends doesn't necessarily mean we even have to go to those people, places or things and directly "fixing" our wrong doing(s) but rather walking a better and spiritual path so those people, places or things see that we have "cleaned up our act."

As the others have said, working the steps thoroughly are best. I feel like steps 4-9 really go hand in hand and as you go through the process you'll find that you may even have to make amends to yourself. That changing what we do is even something so simple as reacting to things differently or realizing that we played a part in it and knowing NOT to repeat our actions.

Hope that helps a little. :)

In my experience, it's best not to work on step 9 until I'm on step 9.

Keith said it all. Worry about step 4 right now. And when we do step 4, if as suggested in the Big Book (1st Edition, of course) we "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." (italics mine), then there are no "closet issues". This is a place where you need to be totally honest with yourself and your sponsor. Remember, half measures avail us nothing. You have plenty of time to deal with the 8th and 9th steps when you get to them, and for God's sake don't even think about trying them without a sponsor. But for right now, worry about coming completely clean in your inventory. If we're totally honest, closet issues don't exist.

I agree, the only Step you should be concerned with at Step 4 is Step 4 and you absolutely need a sponsor to talk through step 8 and 9 so that your alcoholic mind does not use it as a loophole.


I know for me that I can have the urge to apoligise and make amends for absolutely everything to relieve my guilty conscience and I will keep doing so, on and on until I feel better, regardless of how crap I make other people feel. A sponsor helps me see when I am making amends for my sake or the person wronged sake.

Once you work all the steps you will know if you are making amends correctly....all will become clear.

In the meantime, just think Step 4 :)

Thanks for all the replies. It's kind of funny reading the responses though. I do have a sponsor, which I didn't post in my original topic. But down the line it turned into the question of.... if I had a sponsor....., to needing to work the steps with a sponsor...... to finally...I need to get a sponsor. Kind of reminded me of the game telephone. LOL! I am focusing only on step 4 at the moment, but the reason I asked was because in another post, someone used the quote I included and it just got me thinking. I wasn't working that step (step 9). I was just looking for others opinions!!!!

Lol chineese whispers;-)

Your title makes me think of something i said to my sponsor when i did step 9, ok there was this amend that i thought might land me in prison and at the time i was single when doing step 9...i read the BB, then re-read it and said to my sponsor hold on a minute here if i had a GF and a kid then i could talk to them and say i am thinking of doing this amend and it might send me to prison and will take food out of the babys mouth should i make it or keep quiet...i mean what's she going to say???? So i said to my sponsor can we put this amend in the lateer column and ill go and find some woman in th next few week get her up the duff and then ask her if i should make the amend...the loop hole...

He called me a **** and said to make the ******* amend...his words not mine lol so i did...after a week of stalling!

Seriously though i know a guy who did all this, asked his family and he didn't make his amend...was sober for 6 years, drank again, made the amend, did 6 months in prison, came out and has been sober ever since, got a new wife, a new career and, so he says, a life beyond his wildest dreams and said he wouldn't give a penny for the 6 years he wasted and the sobriety he had before...

I guess, for me, if you skip an amend that you know you should make...give it a day, a month, a year, a decade at some point john barleycorn and you wiill meet up again...unless you die first i guess...

Oh and my amend that was to land me in prison turns out that it was all forgotten and i had been worying about nothing for 7 years...but i was willing to go to any length so all good here...

get a sponsor! kidding hehe

OK, OK I'll get a darn sponsor!!!!!:c011:

That's a good idea ;)