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I am so rubbish at this !!!

Old 01-17-2010, 03:01 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Stayinfree View Post
Once...a long while ago...you were a newborn baby...and absolutely PERFECT.....you are still that perfect human being. Yes we make mistakes, yes we've had a sh*t life..but ..THAT is why were are here..to learn, develop and grow.

This is the way I look on life and I share it only to answer your question.

In the very centre of me..there is my soul...just like a newborn baby. My body is the vehicle that gets me around...some have scooters...some have mercedes .....no matter...just a vehicle.

This body also has a mind which uses free will and leads my soul to learn what it has come here to do...to learn the lessons it decided it needed to learn before I was born..but this mind / body also has a personality...which adds to the struggle....You, Daphne, have a perfect soul...just like each and every one of us...that's how you can start to love yourself xx
This post made me cry ,really cry
The thought of me as a perfect newborn and the things I have done to myself , the things that happened as a child/teenager
I am miles away from that perfect new born and the shame of it all is kills me so I lock it all away
even on this annonymous board to disclose what I have done and what happened in my past would be wrong
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:07 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by intention View Post
I would say that your previous eating disorder and your inability to stop drinking alcohol are one and the same, which is why you feel the same now as you did then.

Speaking as an alcoholic and a compulsiver overeater this is something I have recognised for myself. If I put down the alcohol, I will pick up the food and if I put down the food, I will pick up the alcohol.

I have seen this many times in Overeaters Anonymous (members are overeaters/bulimics/anorexics). They stop using the food and then something else becomes a problem in their life, something they never expected.

I have also seen people who have recovered from alcohol (AA) and/or drugs (NA) who have walked into the rooms of OA finding that they have developed a addiction to food, having never had any issues with food in their life before. It can be baffling. Its a question of whether they have recovered or replaced.

(BB readers will know it advises use of chocolate/candy/sweets to combat alcohol cravings in the book. In OA we joke "to recover from compulsive eating, follow all the directions in the Big Book, except Pg 133 & 134 )

All of these issues with addictions are using external factors to make ourselves feel better. I note you also have to be busy all the time, can't sit still, have to cram your life full of things to do. Again these are external factors being used to change how you feel.

None of them work. The only way to find a solution is for it to come from within.

Personally my solution comes from where I orginate from, my Source, God. I find God within me and this fills the void or the "restlessness" that has me reaching for external solutions which never work. Ultimately this enables me to love myself as I feel God's will (love) flowing inside me. All of this I find within me......I would never find it in a church so this is why, to me personally, this is not religious.

Now I know you don't get the God-stuff and I understand. But you have the same problem and you need the same solution - you need to find that within you. Counselling may very well be your answer and it does do it for some but you will need to be honest and open-minded to look within you.

When I first walked into OA 11 years ago I was just about as anti-God/religion as you could get. I was desperate for help but listening to all the talk of God and Higher Power freaked me out.

I actually thought I had walked into a cult (AA seems tame in comparison). At the end of the meeting everyone stood up in a big circle and held hands and said the Serenty Prayer. Then they waved arms up and down, still holding hands, chanting "keep coming back, it works if you work it, and don't pick up, because you are worth it." Remember the Hokey Cokey? - it was like that.


I don't know about "keep coming back" but my friend (who came with me) and I looked at each other thinking WTF, trying not to laugh. Then everyone and I mean everyone in the meeting came up to us and hugged us individually. In fact everyone in the room hugged everyone else. I had never seen anything like it and my mind was telling me this bunch of people were insane (of course I was completely sane ).

....but at the end of that meeting I was given one tiny piece of advice. I was told that I didn't believe in God then to act as if I did. So I did and I prayed every day for a couple of weeks and guess what?......I found him. He was there all the time within me. He had always been there, just waiting for me to get in touch.

And I went back to that meeting. I still thought they were crazy but I loved them all and I grew to love those hugs. I realised later why they did it. They were loving me because I couldn't love myself.

So while you are waiting to see the counsellor shut yourself in a private room and act as if.
Pray to a power greater than you to show you it's will and then just let go.

Keep trying it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, you have nothing to lose. It's in a private room and no-one will ever know except you.
Thanks for your thoughful post Intention
The OA meeting you describe sounds horrific and could not imagine anything worse, yeh the whole AA philosophy is not for me . Have read lot about it so that is an informed choice on my part not blind prejudice.
Two of my closest friends are religious so I have nothing against it just not for me , I am too cynical and questioning
I have heard from the counselling service - there is a 6 week waiting list but they are aimimg to give me an initial session within 2 weeks. So I will def go to that and hope/pray i do not see any of my ex clients in the waiting room!!
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:56 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
I have heard from the counselling service - there is a 6 week waiting list but they are aimimg to give me an initial session within 2 weeks. So I will def go to that and hope/pray i do not see any of my ex clients in the waiting room!!
Let's hope they can - 2 weeks is not too far away. You are obviously in a lot of pain....stick with us.
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:10 AM
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hi Daphne dont give up, you sound a strong willed, independent woman this can only help you,
i too had to learn to love myself, i used to think i didnt deserve to be happy and i used to have an uncontrollable urge to self-destruct, honestly i just couldnt stop myself doing it over and over again,
one day it will all fall into place for you , you'll see, truthfully, life has got alot better for me since i stopped pouring all that poison down my neck, and looked into the reasons why i kept on doing it for so long,
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:32 AM
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From someone who had years of half assed attempts at quitting alcohol, my only 'regret' now i am sober is that i wasted so much time going backwards and forwards shall i drink, shan't i drink and wasted years playing around...it's literally insane...so don't be too hard on yourself you haven't made a decision to stop, why torture yourself? I know if someone had said that to me it would have made no sense whatsoever because i was a sick active alcoholic like you and would have taken it the only way i could, like screw you you don't know what i am going through etc...good luck though:-)
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:34 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8 View Post
I know if someone had said that to me it would have made no sense whatsoever because i was a sick active alcoholic like you and would have taken it the only way i could, like screw you you don't know what i am going through etc...good luck though:-)
I am not taking that attitude " screw you you don't know what I am going through"
I know others have been through similar things but everyone is unique and everyone's experience slightly different. Its not a simplistic issue.
I do not subscribe to the "sick alcoholic" view and I do not feel its helpful to label me as such ........ I find it quite offensive actually
there is a lot of support on here which i really appeciate, but a lot of labelling too ,which goes against the grain for me in terms of my values.
I see alcohol as a "symptom" not the cause
I have so much guilt in my life not ONLY about drinking
When I stopped drinking for 6 weeks I still felt guilt , about tons of other things past and present.
Maybe thats a female thing? the guilt
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:06 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Have you considered some kind of program? There is AA and secular alternatives to AA. There might be outpatient therapy available in your area. I use AA and meet a therapist once a week at an outpatient rehab center. I also have close contact with my sponsor in AA by phone at least twice a week, plus lots of positive contact with AA friends. I also use SR a lot!

I found it was liberating and empowering to recognise that I needed support and structure in my recovery. Please don't beat yourself up with your relapses. As my sponsor says: you are not a bad person, but you need to change your behavior. Go ahead and feel anger at your actions, but go easy on yourself....

Social situations, lastly, let me wrap up my little novellette, are a big challenge and it is a good idea to have a plan. My first year: I simply didn't go. But there are a myriad of ways you can meet the challenge. When I started going, I made sure I drove. I could easily decline drinks because I was driving. Sure a couple of times I lied and said I was taking meds. At an open bar situation, I got my own drinks that looked like alcohol, nobody was the wiser. People here have used all kinds of methods to navigate their way through the social bit.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:21 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by littlefish View Post
Have you considered some kind of program? There is AA and secular alternatives to AA. There might be outpatient therapy available in your area. I use AA and meet a therapist once a week at an outpatient rehab center. I also have close contact with my sponsor in AA by phone at least twice a week, plus lots of positive contact with AA friends. I also use SR a lot!

I found it was liberating and empowering to recognise that I needed support and structure in my recovery. Please don't beat yourself up with your relapses. As my sponsor says: you are not a bad person, but you need to change your behavior. Go ahead and feel anger at your actions, but go easy on yourself....

Social situations, lastly, let me wrap up my little novellette, are a big challenge and it is a good idea to have a plan. My first year: I simply didn't go. But there are a myriad of ways you can meet the challenge. When I started going, I made sure I drove. I could easily decline drinks because I was driving. Sure a couple of times I lied and said I was taking meds. At an open bar situation, I got my own drinks that looked like alcohol, nobody was the wiser. People here have used all kinds of methods to navigate their way through the social bit.
thanks littlefish
I am going to use counselling - appointment within next 2 weeks
as i sau there are a ton of unresolved issues I need to address if I am to stop drinking (or not just use something else to self medictate like drugs, food )
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:24 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Daphne, you seem to be coming to the point of accepting your problem with alcohol. That's the starting point. Don't be afraid to take the journey within yourself, you will learn so much, and you will be able to release the pain you feel. When you release the pain, you will feel freedom.
Finally, be compassionate to yourself.
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post

Underneath it all if I am truly honest I do not deserve to be happy
I am have abused my body and tainted my soul screwing up my right to a decent life. I deserve to suffer.
That's BS. You and I and everyone else deserve a happy, meaningful life. It's only when we muck it all up... it's then that we become unhappy.

Your soul is one thing that can never be tainted.

Mark
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:56 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
I am not taking that attitude " screw you you don't know what I am going through"
I know others have been through similar things but everyone is unique and everyone's experience slightly different. Its not a simplistic issue.
I do not subscribe to the "sick alcoholic" view and I do not feel its helpful to label me as such ........ I find it quite offensive actually
there is a lot of support on here which i really appeciate, but a lot of labelling too ,which goes against the grain for me in terms of my values.
I see alcohol as a "symptom" not the cause
I have so much guilt in my life not ONLY about drinking
When I stopped drinking for 6 weeks I still felt guilt , about tons of other things past and present.
Maybe thats a female thing? the guilt
Sorry to labour a point here but clearly you are doing what i said;-)

The guilt that you feel after staying dry, not being sober, for 6 weeks is because you are still the same person you were when you were drinking, all alcoholics feel the guilt, remourse, sadness, frustration etc, this is what seperates an alcoholic from a heavy drinker, it's not confusing at all...the heavy drinkers i knew wouldn't feel guilty about anything they did because they did it whilst drunk, an alcoholic displays just as much of the insanity, if not more, in the dry periods in between drinking?! Why do you think so many of us keep drinking for so long...any sane person would have gotten help years ago, on a dry day would have though **** im an alcoholic better get some help!!!

It really is incredibly simple and you are no different to any other problem drinker or whatever feels a comfortable label for you...the sooner you realise that the quicker you will be able to do something real about it. i wish you the best and hope you get a clarity moment or just head down to AA:-)

Just wanted to tell you how it is, wouldn't have made any difference to me before if someone had told me but hey, maybe you are different...
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:48 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cubile75 View Post
That's BS. You and I and everyone else deserve a happy, meaningful life. It's only when we muck it all up... it's then that we become unhappy.

Your soul is one thing that can never be tainted.

Mark
mark thanks for the positivity BUT if you knew the life I had led you would take a different view
I have sooooooo many things to feel guilt about alcohol is on the list but so are host of others
anyway to be honest NO not everyone DOEs deserve a happy life .....george W bush, hitler , child molesters, violent thugs ..they do not deserve happy lives do they ??
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8 View Post
Sorry to labour a point here but clearly you are doing what i said;-)

The guilt that you feel after staying dry, not being sober, for 6 weeks is because you are still the same person you were when you were drinking, all alcoholics feel the guilt, remourse, sadness, frustration etc, this is what seperates an alcoholic from a heavy drinker, it's not confusing at all...the heavy drinkers i knew wouldn't feel guilty about anything they did because they did it whilst drunk, an alcoholic displays just as much of the insanity, if not more, in the dry periods in between drinking?! Why do you think so many of us keep drinking for so long...any sane person would have gotten help years ago, on a dry day would have though **** im an alcoholic better get some help!!!

It really is incredibly simple and you are no different to any other problem drinker or whatever feels a comfortable label for you...the sooner you realise that the quicker you will be able to do something real about it. i wish you the best and hope you get a clarity moment or just head down to AA:-)

Just wanted to tell you how it is, wouldn't have made any difference to me before if someone had told me but hey, maybe you are different...
think we will agree to disagree as you have missed my point completely ........like I say maybe its a female thing
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:18 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Hi Daphne,

Everyone deserves peace of mind, including you. I don't quite get how Hitler etc is your comparison but I would guess the burden of guilt has been hugely distorted over the years that you have carried it. I hope that now you have started to open up anonymously that you will be able to release this pain with the counsellor when you see them in a couple of weeks.

You are at a point of no return. You know now that you cannot stop drinking even though you have to. Those carefree days of drinking like it doesn't matter are gone.... never to return. Everytime you drink now you will experience this despair the next day.

Keep sharing here if it helps. We all understand what you are going through even though your circumstances may be unique to you.
Take care
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:50 PM
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anyway to be honest NO not everyone DOEs deserve a happy life .....george W bush, hitler , child molesters, violent thugs ..they do not deserve happy lives do they ??
You don't believe in redemption? What a sad world it would be if if there were no such thing as reparation, forgiveness, fresh starts. Do you really think we should all be forced to wear every bad thing we've done forever with no way to make it right?

I don't suggest we shouldn't pay for what we've done, but I believe a murderer can find peace and forgiveness and yes, happiness even from inside thier cell if they truly and humbly seek it.

mark thanks for the positivity BUT if you knew the life I had led you would take a different view
I have sooooooo many things to feel guilt about alcohol is on the list but so are host of others
Aw, girl, now you're just teasin' . You say something like that you have to dish.

Being serious now, I was overwhelmed with guilt when I first got sober as well. I thought I would never be clean again. In the rooms of The Organisation That Shall Not Be Named I found I was a choirgirl compared to a lot of folks. The things that were done to me without my consent were also pretty tame by comparison to some.

I'm free from shame now. There is nothing I can't speak openly about. When I censor myself, it's for the comfort of the person to whom I am speaking. I hope you can find the same freedom. Whatever you've done, I'd bet it's not as bad as you think nor is setting things right as impossible as you think.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:48 PM
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Daphne

I'm not sure I'm caught up on this thread - but you're not alone in having done things you're ashamed of.

They're in the past tho - we can't touch them or change them. What's done is truly done.

What we can do is live right today - and on in to tomorrow. Let the latter part of your life make up for whatever it is you're ashamed about in the first part.

I think everyone deserves a good life and some peace and contentment. I certainly don't see you as irredeemable

Sure some people make bad choices or go down wrong, even evil, paths - but thats not relevant here. Daphne

You have a chance for a new start - take it

D
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by intention View Post
Hi Daphne,

Everyone deserves peace of mind, including you. I don't quite get how Hitler etc is your comparison but I would guess the burden of guilt has been hugely distorted over the years that you have carried it. I hope that now you have started to open up anonymously that you will be able to release this pain with the counsellor when you see them in a couple of weeks.

You are at a point of no return. You know now that you cannot stop drinking even though you have to. Those carefree days of drinking like it doesn't matter are gone.... never to return. Everytime you drink now you will experience this despair the next day.

Keep sharing here if it helps. We all understand what you are going through even though your circumstances may be unique to you.
Take care
sorry I was not comparing myself with Hitler NOT that bad lol
just challenging Mark's ascertion that ALL people deserve a good life
Thanks for your ongoing support
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Daphne

I'm not sure I'm caught up on this thread - but you're not alone in having done things you're ashamed of.

They're in the past tho - we can't touch them or change them. What's done is truly done.

What we can do is live right today - and on in to tomorrow. Let the latter part of your life make up for whatever it is you're ashamed about in the first part.

I think everyone deserves a good life and some peace and contentment. I certainly don't see you as irredeemable

Sure some people make bad choices or go down wrong, even evil, paths - but thats not relevant here. Daphne

You have a chance for a new start - take it

D
Hey Dee you are such a wise man/woman (hard to tell from your profile pic !!!)
I probably take the rather difficult view that until you can come to terms with your past you will not accept yourself in the present
Maybe I have a "guilt" gene !!??
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninsuna View Post


Being serious now, I was overwhelmed with guilt when I first got sober as well. I thought I would never be clean again. In the rooms of The Organisation That Shall Not Be Named I found I was a choirgirl compared to a lot of folks. The things that were done to me without my consent were also pretty tame by comparison to some.

I'm free from shame now. There is nothing I can't speak openly about. When I censor myself, it's for the comfort of the person to whom I am speaking. I hope you can find the same freedom. Whatever you've done, I'd bet it's not as bad as you think nor is setting things right as impossible as you think.
My guilt is not connected to drinking. Its just a constant feeling of being a bad person at the core. When I am not drinking its no different from when I am. I have not screwed up stuff when drunk so do not have the "drink ruined my life " excuse, I am to blame for all my decisions NOT alcohol.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
Hey Dee you are such a wise man/woman (hard to tell from your profile pic !!!)
I probably take the rather difficult view that until you can come to terms with your past you will not accept yourself in the present
Maybe I have a "guilt" gene !!??
I'm a guy

Absolutely we need to come to terms with our past - I wouldn't be here if I hadn't.

But we can't *change* the past...so feeling guilt and remorse over it is fairly self defeating to my mind...

I'd rather do something than feel guilty.

We do what we can to make things right, or if we can't, we try our best to come to terms with it...then we move on....to me, redemption lies in today and tomorrow

It's not easy...I know.

If I'm wise I got this way by making many many mistakes for many years LOL

D
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