I'm not sure how I feel about posting this...actually I am, pretty uneasy. - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Go Back   SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information >
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read





Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2010, 02:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503

I'm not sure how I feel about posting this...actually I am, pretty uneasy.


I not sure I'm an alcoholic.

I've been reading Under the Influence and have read on here that if you wonder if you're an alcoholic try drinking again.

With both things in mind, I did. I had some light beers on Tuesday and I didn't see what the big deal was (not like I used to). I bought a 12 pack and didn't even finish it. It took me about 7 hours to drink 10 beers and I hardly got a buzz.

Why did I drink in the first place? I wanted to see if I was an alcoholic. For those that don't know I was on anti-depressants for the past four years and went off them cold turkey on 9/25. Since then my desire for the drink has small to none.

I tend to play the blame game a lot - I blamed alcohol for my problems, then I blamed my anti-depressant for drinking alcohol. I never blamed myself for my actions, it was always something else.

So I'm pretty confused. I wonder how many people that are told they are an alcoholic actually drink more because they think it's what they are supposed to do. Once I figured out I wasn't (or didn't think I was) based on Under the Influence and some soul searching, I grabbed some beer and didn't even have a huge desire to slam it. (Before I would buy the strongest beer and some hard liquor because I thought that's what I should do because I was an alcoholic and the desire to quit wasn't there based on my anti-depressant - pg. 38 of Under the Influence).

So if alcohol isn't the problem, then what the hell is? I seem to have lost my motivation and zest for life. Do I need to got to AA to learn how to live again?

Can telling someone they are an alcoholic who isn't be just as devastating as not telling someone who is?

Confused and thanks.
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Bob23's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
So if alcohol isn't the problem, then what the hell is?
If you're like me, the problem is the space between the ears. I learned in AA that the alcohol is only a symptom. My thinking was the root problem. Only you can determine if you're an alcoholic.

If you're going to go the controlled drinking/only light beer route, see how long that lasts. If you have alcoholism, probably not long.
__________________
Getting out of my own way.
Bob23 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bob23 For This Useful Post:
ANGELINA243 (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 02:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob23 View Post
If you're like me, the problem is the space between the ears. I learned in AA that the alcohol is only a symptom. My thinking was the root problem. Only you can determine if you're an alcoholic.
That's what I have to figure out and thanks.

Quote:
If you're going to go the controlled drinking/only light beer route, see how long that lasts. If you have alcoholism, probably not long.
That's just it, I wasn't trying to control it. I had every intention of just letting myself drink as much and as fast as I wanted to. The pace I chose was natural and not forced. So damn confusing man.
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
Sober Date 12/21/09
 
sunset2000's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 83
For me, drinking was like dieting. The more I thought about it and knew how bad it was for me, the more I'd eat/drink. If I gave myself permission, I didn't want it. It's that old "want what you can't have" thing. But that's just me.

The fact that you're thinking about it so much, questioning and seeking advice about it could indicate you have a bigger problem than you think, whether or not you fit any actual labels.
sunset2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunset2000 View Post
For me, drinking was like dieting. The more I thought about it and knew how bad it was for me, the more I'd eat/drink. If I gave myself permission, I didn't want it. It's that old "want what you can't have" thing. But that's just me.
I'm so there with you. For the longest time I wanted it because I couldn't have it. But then when I allowed myself to have it, it wasn't special because I didn't have any restrictions.

Clearly something is wrong but I don't have the answer and I'm not sure how to get it.
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
Guest
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
Only you can decide man. I know for sure that I'm an alcoholic. I liked your posts and your wisdom and thats why I added you as a friend. I could relate to you man.

Once the booze hits my bloodstream I am off and don't want to stop for anything. I cant live with booze in my life and before I actually got into recovery properly using AA and SR then I couldn't see a future without it either. Now I can see a nice tunnel with a light at the end. It's still a way off but at least it's there!!

I don't know what to say really.

Do many non alcoholics come to SR? I dont know. I sure know that your mind telling you that you ain't one is the most powerfull deception of the disease of alclholism... Which is why a rock solid foundation at step1 is totally and utterly essential if you're to stay sober. Because whats happening to you now will get you back drinking again.

I wish you all the best in what you decide but how many others have you seen go back out drinking again only to be back (or not) a few months/years later even deeper in the Sh*t. Is not drinking even if you're not an alclholic really such a bad thing? Ponder that an you might get your answer...


peace and Love xxx
NEOMARXIST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Mark75's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
Can telling someone they are an alcoholic who isn't be just as devastating as not telling someone who is?
Telling someone they are or are not an alcoholic is not up to the one doing the telling. Certainly there are consequences all around. That's why, IMHO, only the alcoholic should make the diagnosis themselves... others may help... but in the end, well, it's up to the alcoholic, or not alcoholic.

However, I am not sure that you have enough information, and, are you being rigorously honest with yourself? So.... maybe you aren't an alcoholic or maybe you are and you are not done drinking yet.

Mark
Mark75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: scotland uk
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
I'm so there with you. For the longest time I wanted it because I couldn't have it. But then when I allowed myself to have it, it wasn't special because I didn't have any restrictions.

Clearly something is wrong but I don't have the answer and I'm not sure how to get it.
Yeh I think thats why some alcohol support services/programmes do not advocate or insist on abstainence. Making drink forbidden fruit some would argue is not productive. Many are working on behaviourist principles that if you identify triggers and change associations or outcomes then ,you can change behaviour, they do not see it as an illness or disease to which you are powerless.
Suppose it doesn't matter the "diagnosis" or label BUT what ever gets the results you need that matters. There are people who can manage and control their drinking after years of alcohol abuse. I am still deciding if I am one of them
daphne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
soberinwpg's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The GREAT White North
Posts: 315
Only you can decide is right.
Paxil caused huge cravings for me. Unfortunately I didn't figure this out until 2 bad relapses in 9 years. Each relapse I started Paxil a month earlier.
That being said denial is another one. If I honestly look back at my past alchhol filled that void in my soul, stopped the chaos in my brain and made me forget that I thought I was a worthless even before I thought I had a problem.
I am now in a place that I am working on those things. The steps, imo, are there to fill the hole, settle the brain and give me a fulfilling life.
I don't know what will happen to me if I have a drink or 2 now that I'm off Paxil and working my program but you know what? I don't even wanna risk it. I might get into a situation where I find I start and can't stop and that ain't worth a buzz. ugh. Why would I want to put that kind of fear into my life? I'm just getting rid of a lot of fears.
I enjoy life with out the chaos of "What if". My desire to test the waters is over. Just for today.
__________________
The two most dangerous words in a recovering alcoholic's vocabulary are, "I'm different."
soberinwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
soberinwpg's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The GREAT White North
Posts: 315
My friend e-mailed this to me today:

You can't make a horse drink water if he still prefers beer or is too crazy to know what he does want. Set a pail of water beside him, tell him how good it is and why, and leave him alone.
"If people really want to get drunk, there is, so far as I know, no way of stopping this - so leave them alone and let them get drunk. But don't exclude them from the water pail, either."
__________________
The two most dangerous words in a recovering alcoholic's vocabulary are, "I'm different."
soberinwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to soberinwpg For This Useful Post:
scoob (01-15-2010), Untoxicated (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 02:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
Guest
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
"Yeh I think thats why some alcohol support services/programmes do not advocate or insist on abstainence. Making drink forbidden fruit some would argue is not productive. Many are working on behaviourist principles that if you identify triggers and change associations or outcomes then ,you can change behaviour, they do not see it as an illness or disease to which you are powerless.
Suppose it doesn't matter the "diagnosis" or label BUT what ever gets the results you need that matters. There are people who can manage and control their drinking after years of alcohol abuse. I am still deciding if I am one of them
"


They were never alcoholics. Imo.

I used to hang with some proper hardcore F*ckhead characters to put it mildly but I could spot the alkies and addicts a mile off. The notion of ever drinking/using with any control is just not feasibly possible. Ever.
NEOMARXIST is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NEOMARXIST For This Useful Post:
Untoxicated (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 02:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dee74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 180,476
Blog Entries: 1
Untoxicated
I think it's pretty safe to assume that anyone who seeks out and joins an online recovery group has some kind of problem.

Sometimes I think it's best not to complicate it any more than that.

For me alcohol wasn't the problem...neither was pot, or chocolate, or any one of the other 100 addictions I have had...they were just ways - mostly bad ways - I had of trying to deal with the fundamental problem of *me*.

D
__________________
Dee74 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dee74 For This Useful Post:
daphne (01-14-2010), NOMOMERLOTMAMMA (01-14-2010), Shifty (01-15-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 02:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOMARXIST View Post
Only you can decide man. I know for sure that I'm an alcoholic. I liked your posts and your wisdom and thats why I added you as a friend. I could relate to you man.

Once the booze hits my bloodstream I am off and don't want to stop for anything. I cant live with booze in my life and before I actually got into recovery properly using AA and SR then I couldn't see a future without it either. Now I can see a nice tunnel with a light at the end. It's still a way off but at least it's there!!

I don't know what to say really.

Do many non alcoholics come to SR? I dont know. I sure know that your mind telling you that you ain't one is the most powerfull deception of the disease of alclholism... Which is why a rock solid foundation at step1 is totally and utterly essential if you're to stay sober. Because whats happening to you now will get you back drinking again.

I wish you all the best in what you decide but how many others have you seen go back out drinking again only to be back (or not) a few months/years later even deeper in the Sh*t. Is not drinking even if you're not an alclholic really such a bad thing? Ponder that an you might get your answer...


peace and Love xxx
Thanks Neo, I enjoy your thoughts and widsom as well.

Dude, I just don't know. In a real eff-upped way, I hope I am an alcoholic so I can address that, but I'm starting to think I'm not. Now, when I was on my AD I was the same way, I would drink and I was off to the races - but not anymore.

Quote:
Do many non alcoholics come to SR?
I hear ya, and I have no problem admitting I'm an alcoholic if I find myself to be so. I came here because other people told me I was - but now that I've educated myself and read diligently on this site, I'm not sure I am.

So maybe I'm just the aftermath of a person on ADs that is trying to understand why a previous behavioral pattern no longer exists.

TBH, I thought drinking would be great and that I would really have missed it. But I just never got the "feeling" that I got when I was on ADs. It goes with what is stated in Under the Influence, the alcoholic is given energy and the non-alcoholic gets tired after a few beers. I got tired and even tried to force myself to drink more just to get more energy but it never happened.

Quote:
I sure know that your mind telling you that you ain't one is the most powerfull deception of the disease of alclholism...
I agree wholeheartedly which is why I'm throwing it out there. I don't want to misconstrue not being an alcoholic for a desperate attempt to drink again. But drinking isn't even that great anymore so I don't get it.

Quote:
Is not drinking even if you're not an alclholic really such a bad thing? Ponder that an you might get your answer...
You're right, it's not a bad thing at all and I will think about it. I guess I don't want to focus my efforts on something that doesn't exist.

Thanks again man and I'm glad you're doing well!
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Untoxicated For This Useful Post:
NEOMARXIST (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 02:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubile75 View Post
Telling someone they are or are not an alcoholic is not up to the one doing the telling. Certainly there are consequences all around. That's why, IMHO, only the alcoholic should make the diagnosis themselves... others may help... but in the end, well, it's up to the alcoholic, or not alcoholic.
With all do respect Mark, that sounds like you're running for office because you've basically pleased all sides without taking one.

Quote:
However, I am not sure that you have enough information, and, are you being rigorously honest with yourself?
All I can say is that I hope and think so.

Quote:
So.... maybe you aren't an alcoholic or maybe you are and you are not done drinking yet.

Mark
Yeah, *sigh*, that's the rub isn't it?
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by soberinwpg View Post
Only you can decide is right.
Paxil caused huge cravings for me. Unfortunately I didn't figure this out until 2 bad relapses in 9 years. Each relapse I started Paxil a month earlier.
That being said denial is another one. If I honestly look back at my past alchhol filled that void in my soul, stopped the chaos in my brain and made me forget that I thought I was a worthless even before I thought I had a problem.
I am now in a place that I am working on those things. The steps, imo, are there to fill the hole, settle the brain and give me a fulfilling life.
I don't know what will happen to me if I have a drink or 2 now that I'm off Paxil and working my program but you know what? I don't even wanna risk it. I might get into a situation where I find I start and can't stop and that ain't worth a buzz. ugh. Why would I want to put that kind of fear into my life? I'm just getting rid of a lot of fears.
I enjoy life with out the chaos of "What if". My desire to test the waters is over. Just for today.
Thanks sob (, can I call you SOB?). I always appreciate your posts. So I guess I need to find out why I wanted to test the waters. It wasn't because I wanted to drink as it was to change my mood. I wasn't happy - but "normies" do that too.

Ah, who knows.
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Untoxicated For This Useful Post:
soberinwpg (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 02:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: scotland uk
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOMARXIST View Post

They were never alcoholics. Imo.

I used to hang with some proper hardcore F*ckhead characters to put it mildly but I could spot the alkies and addicts a mile off. The notion of ever drinking/using with any control is just not feasibly possible. Ever.
Hi
I have worked with hundreds of people with alcohol problems over the years. Yes some of them had to resort to abstaining BUT others didn't
I would never ever say i could spot "alkies" a mile off as the stereotype and assumptions we make is often wrong. For example one of the highest rate of alcholism exists within the medical professions, your doctors, surgeons, nurses etc
SURELY
People are complex, life is complex and alcohol misuse is complex
daphne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 03:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
Eating protein and life.
 
Untoxicated's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Just. Plain. Grateful.
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Untoxicated
I think it's pretty safe to assume that anyone who seeks out and joins an online recovery group has some kind of problem.

Sometimes I think it's best not to complicate it any more than that.

For me alcohol wasn't the problem...neither was pot, or chocolate, or any one of the other 100 addictions I have had...they were just ways - mostly bad ways - I had of trying to deal with the fundamental problem of *me*.

D
I totally get that, but then why should alcohol (or whatever your DOC is) be a problem for you now that you have both found and fixed the issue...unless you are addicted to that substance?

I guess my question really is...what in the hell is wrong with me? Fix me damnit!
__________________
"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would
be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while
remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you
cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent
egg. We must be hatched or go bad." - C. S. Lewis
Untoxicated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 03:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
blackbirdsing's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 133
Un, I don't have any answers for you; but I wish you health, happiness and peace of mind.
__________________
"I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail
Yes I would, if I could, I surely would"
blackbirdsing is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blackbirdsing For This Useful Post:
Untoxicated (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 03:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
Guest
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
The last thing I will mention is that alcohol/alcoholic mind is one cunning, deceiving, lying SOAB. If it senses that you have placed all of your eggs in one basket ie- relying on under the influence/trying controlled drinking experiment once to decide then what do you think the outcome is gonna be? This way it gets what it wants ie- booze to be allowed back in your life again. Just a thought.

All The best man and thanks for your good wishes.
NEOMARXIST is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NEOMARXIST For This Useful Post:
anvilhead (01-14-2010)
Old 01-14-2010, 03:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: scotland uk
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
I totally get that, but then why should alcohol (or whatever your DOC is) be a problem for you now that you have both found and fixed the issue...unless you are addicted to that substance?

I guess my question really is...what in the hell is wrong with me? Fix me damnit!
Hey unintoxicated
maybe the problem with you is a lack of acceptence of yourself ? if that makes sense , a contentment with you , a striving always to be better or different in some way?
daphne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:12 AM.