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I'm not sure how I feel about posting this...actually I am, pretty uneasy.

Old 01-14-2010, 08:31 PM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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It's easier to speak truth to power than to speak truth to yourself.

And please don't get your back up over this. I don't know what your truth is. You're not an alcoholic - I'm glad for you. How can I know what the answer is to fix you? We are all trying to help you the best we can. You are obviously struggling with something here.

Be good to yourself,

spryte
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:36 PM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by spryte View Post
It's easier to speak truth to power than to speak truth to yourself.

And please don't get your back up over this. I don't know what your truth is. You're not an alcoholic - I'm glad for you. How can I know what the answer is to fix you? We are all trying to help you the best we can. You are obviously struggling with something here.

Be good to yourself,

spryte
Well spryte, I don't know what I am. I do know I grateful to be here and to finally let my feelings loose. Forever I felt like I was in a cage because to not be honest was to not be sober (in my world).

I know, it's selfish of me to expect others to set me straight when they are trying their damndest themselves.

I think I want black and white answer to a gray question.

I'll stop here because I don't want the mods to get a headache - but I really mean it when I say, "thank you, every one of you for taking the time to matter to me and make me feel mattered."

Have a good night all.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:44 PM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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I only read this last page of the thread, so if i'm repeating something ... my appologies

First...I hope you look hard at your history as honestly as you can and determine if you want/plan/need to drink or not to drink.... I think it is pretty important to determine that for yourself.

Then...AA is one option, and you seem to be questioning it as your path...which is fine...lots at SR use other methods...

Have you checked out the secular recovery section? Smart? A church type thing? An addictionologist?

You can try one thing, and if after following the plan, it doesn't seem to you to work.....try another one....

Lots of ways to stay sober depending on the person, and lots of reasons to stay sober....or not.

Anyhow...hope i didn't just repeat whats already been said
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:52 PM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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(((Untoxicated))) when I was younger, and "in love" with a functioning alcoholic, I was also a raging codependent. I drank, like a fish, to "keep up" or "put up" with him...got a DUI and everything. Drank from sunup to sundown on my days off.

When we broke up, I stopped drinking except on occasion...no withdrawals, didn't miss it, heck, didn't really think about it. However, there was still something missing in me, and I turned to opiates. Abused the heck out of them...lucky I'm still alive, with the amounts I used.

Again, when I lost access to them, I walked away...no withdrawals, no cravings, not a second thought. Have had to take them for legit pain on a few occasions and I have an "agreement" with my dr. and dentist that they give me very few with no refills.

After THAT, I discovered crack....brought me to my knees. Lost my nursing career, ended up in jail and with almost 3 years clean, I am STILL dealing with the wreckage of my consequences.

The reason I am telling you this, is if you feel there is something "missing" in you, I highly recommend doing whatever it takes to find out what it is, lest you follow MY path and keep trying to fill that missing part with something....be it counseling, meetings, therapy, whatever. I could have saved YEARS of hell if I'd started where you are, and tackled the problem head on.

I don't know whether you're an alcoholic or not. Anyone who saw me when I was drinking would have sworn I was one, but in the years since then I've had a drink with dinner or one beer on a hot day and that was it....I didn't want any more.

I hope you find the answers to what you are seeking.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:15 PM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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Here is your 1st. post with us....

Well, I can only tell you from my experience it's because...

1. I was change averse.
2. I wouldn't change unless the pain of changing was less than the pain of not changing.
3. Consequences had nothing to do with my decision to change (all the yets listed had no impact on my decision to quit).
4. Forming new habits required work, determination, patience, and humility - all of which I didn't have or desire.
5. I was a salesman (to myself) selling ideas to a starving consumer (myself)...I wanted to believe I could drink normally or even just a little bit abnormally.
6. I loved alcohol and I still do, but that's not unlike loving someone that has died. You can still love them you just can't have them in your life anymore.
7. I battled the existence of God, until I was completely ready to accept that possibility...and I quickly found out it was much easier to believe in God, even if He doesn't exist than to constantly question His existance and worry about going to my grave, "wrong." (I have to chuckle at how funny and egotiscal I was, I had to be right to my grave - the very place being right wouldn't matter if I were right, but would matter tremendously if I were wrong - ah the grand plan is something).

At 33 years old, I'm glad I don't have to travel the path of "if I only drink beer, etc" it's okay...and I'm hopeful you will be too.

I hope you find peace soon, I'm just starting to find peace myself.

Take care.
I'm praying you will find lasting peace too.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:33 PM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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See D not one inflammatory post from yours truly...being asleep and the time difference does help...progress not perfection;-)

What are we talking about again?
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:50 PM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
I only read this last page of the thread, so if i'm repeating something ... my appologies

First...I hope you look hard at your history as honestly as you can and determine if you want/plan/need to drink or not to drink.... I think it is pretty important to determine that for yourself.

Then...AA is one option, and you seem to be questioning it as your path...which is fine...lots at SR use other methods...

Have you checked out the secular recovery section? Smart? A church type thing? An addictionologist?

You can try one thing, and if after following the plan, it doesn't seem to you to work.....try another one....

Lots of ways to stay sober depending on the person, and lots of reasons to stay sober....or not.

Anyhow...hope i didn't just repeat whats already been said
No worries on repetition, and I'm not against AA either - just trying to figure me out.

I haven't checked out secular recovery because believe it or not I believe in God and a Christian one at that.

Thanks for your thoughts, ananda.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:54 PM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Impurrfect View Post
(((Untoxicated))) when I was younger, and "in love" with a functioning alcoholic, I was also a raging codependent. I drank, like a fish, to "keep up" or "put up" with him...got a DUI and everything. Drank from sunup to sundown on my days off.

When we broke up, I stopped drinking except on occasion...no withdrawals, didn't miss it, heck, didn't really think about it. However, there was still something missing in me, and I turned to opiates. Abused the heck out of them...lucky I'm still alive, with the amounts I used.

Again, when I lost access to them, I walked away...no withdrawals, no cravings, not a second thought. Have had to take them for legit pain on a few occasions and I have an "agreement" with my dr. and dentist that they give me very few with no refills.

After THAT, I discovered crack....brought me to my knees. Lost my nursing career, ended up in jail and with almost 3 years clean, I am STILL dealing with the wreckage of my consequences.

The reason I am telling you this, is if you feel there is something "missing" in you, I highly recommend doing whatever it takes to find out what it is, lest you follow MY path and keep trying to fill that missing part with something....be it counseling, meetings, therapy, whatever. I could have saved YEARS of hell if I'd started where you are, and tackled the problem head on.

I don't know whether you're an alcoholic or not. Anyone who saw me when I was drinking would have sworn I was one, but in the years since then I've had a drink with dinner or one beer on a hot day and that was it....I didn't want any more.

I hope you find the answers to what you are seeking.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy
Yours is an insanely powerful post to me Amy.

Wow, I guess given the right circumstances we all fall down. I tried counseling at the recommendation of my gf - but I went for her. Once there though I tried to reflect on her thoughts, actions, and questions.

I guess I don't know how to meditate or find my true self anymore. The self that once feared nothing and had everything. I bolded this for myself because I had more to fear than I realized and at the time had nothing - but in my mind, I was content. Somewhere along the line I was given the curse of entitlement and greed.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:56 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by CarolD View Post
Here is your 1st. post with us....



I'm praying you will find lasting peace too.
Carol I don't know what it is about you but somehow you always put things in perspective.

Even so my own words burn my eyes.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:10 AM
  # 70 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
I not sure I'm an alcoholic.

I've been reading Under the Influence and have read on here that if you wonder if you're an alcoholic try drinking again.

With both things in mind, I did. I had some light beers on Tuesday and I didn't see what the big deal was (not like I used to). I bought a 12 pack and didn't even finish it. It took me about 7 hours to drink 10 beers and I hardly got a buzz.

Why did I drink in the first place? I wanted to see if I was an alcoholic. For those that don't know I was on anti-depressants for the past four years and went off them cold turkey on 9/25. Since then my desire for the drink has small to none.

I tend to play the blame game a lot - I blamed alcohol for my problems, then I blamed my anti-depressant for drinking alcohol. I never blamed myself for my actions, it was always something else.

So I'm pretty confused. I wonder how many people that are told they are an alcoholic actually drink more because they think it's what they are supposed to do. Once I figured out I wasn't (or didn't think I was) based on Under the Influence and some soul searching, I grabbed some beer and didn't even have a huge desire to slam it. (Before I would buy the strongest beer and some hard liquor because I thought that's what I should do because I was an alcoholic and the desire to quit wasn't there based on my anti-depressant - pg. 38 of Under the Influence).

So if alcohol isn't the problem, then what the hell is? I seem to have lost my motivation and zest for life. Do I need to got to AA to learn how to live again?

Can telling someone they are an alcoholic who isn't be just as devastating as not telling someone who is?

Confused and thanks.
hi how you doing........is it warm in here or is it me......
its a good honest post.........shame its becoming a fragmented tit 4 tat..

I have some experience of people that were confused to whether they are alcoholic or not.
Its my belief that some peoples drinking resembles alcoholism....very closely.
when problems arise they may appear to be true alcoholic in their drinking.
they may develop a physical dependency to alcohol.....and may even end up in hospital.

alcoholism is very very different from problem/heavy drinking IMO.

i know plenty of guys that drink every night.......maybe ten pints.
but the minute the wife get tight.......or they need to refrain for some reason..they stop.....and stop for significant lengths of time too.
they can also reduce the intake......if they need too.
CHOICE is still a factor in their drinking.....and willpower is still effective.

i consider myself alcoholic....101%.......different from some of my heavy drinking friends.

firstly Ive lost the power of choice when booze hits my gut.
something happens which i cannot describe...rather than enjoy the rosy warmth of booze.....i find myself quickly drinking faster than others around me.
rather than becoming satisfied.......it has the opposite effect
i want more and more and more
most of those friends went home hours ago...........I'm still trawling the late night bars..........normally too blackout........finding myself waking in strange places....maybe jail.........maybe hospital..........maybe a store doorway.

i wake in the morning and quickly I'm consumed with the idea of getting more booze.....and off i go......again.
when im finally burnt out and detox is the only option i disappear into hospital to detox...if I'm lucky.

so i come out of hospital with a new vigor.....jeez I'm never ever gonna do that again......i swear on my daughters life........never ever ever.

life feels good for a short while.....pink fluffy puppies all over......lifes grand.
slowly the clouds desend....i become restless......nothing seems to go right.
a thought of a drink enters my mind........at first i reject it....

depression slowly decends........"man why dont people just f off and leave me alone"......i become aggressive and short tempered.
i become bitter and angry.....im surrounded by idiots......
insomnia sometimes kicks in.
vague thoughts of suicide come to mind.......
a thought of a drink enters my mind again.........was it that bad?
the force of consequences of drinking last time......become irrelevant.
shortly they become a vague memory......
at this point i may be sober a week.......i have managed 6 months..
white knuckling it.........literally.

the day comes when the thoughts and obsessions about alcohol get the upper hand and i drink again........i have no choice.
I'm completely powerless to fight off the urge.
and so the cycle starts again.

i did this over and over and over and over for at least 20 years.
a physical allergy coupled with a mental obssession......

alcoholics of my type have lost the power of choice.....willpower wont help.
locking me up wont help.........losing everything didn't help.

this is why some....including myself suggest trying controlled drinking if you are unsure of your condition.
try drinking and stopping abruptly......stop altogether for long periods.
have one and stop.......make a bottle of wine last a week like my wife..lol

if you are honest with yourself you will easily be able to diagnose your drinking patterns.
some have issues that have nothing to do with alcoholism.....i did and used a therapist which helped.

This post is only MY experience with alcoholism.....
and why i would consider myself alcoholic.
hope this helps with your self examination
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:10 AM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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Hi Untoxicated,

Like loads of people have already said, maybe you are an alki maybe you aren't, no one can say for sure. But to be honest, does it matter?

Alcohol seems to have remained a big focus for you the whole time. If alcohol is just a side effect of something deeper then why don't you let it go? Stop wasting time and energy thinking things that you've thought a thousand times before. If You can't find the answers to your questions by trying to figure out whether you can drink normally or not, then stop flogging a dead horse. It seems there's a much bigger picture with you and booze is getting more credit than it's worth IMO.

I'm not saying that you should take your eye of the ball completely, but move it aside. Channel your energy somewhere else, for something positive. I don't want to insult you mate, but like me, I think you have quite a negative outlook on things. I know everyone sees the world through their own glasses but if you're anything like me, your glasses have had your own sh*t smeared across them for so long, that's all you can see. Shift your focus, look else where, if you can't get the drink off your mind, you would of at least found the answer to one of the questions.

I wish you all the best buddy.
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:08 AM
  # 72 (permalink)  
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Hi Untox


Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
So if alcohol isn't the problem, then what the hell is? I seem to have lost my motivation and zest for life.

Er.....since when ???

Most of the posts I have seen from you in the last couple of weeks have been telling us how great you feel, how great life is etc.

You seem quite an open person (you started this thread) so I assume you were telling the truth about how great you felt.

Human beings have moods. High, middle, low. A human cannot always be in a high or a middle mood. Sometimes they have to be in a low mood. This is what makes us human.

You have been on a high for a couple of weeks, enjoying your new routine, clear head, working out in the gym and now in the last couple of days you don't feel so great. So now you say you have lost your 'zest for life'.

Depression is serious - I've been suicidal/depressed/prescribed ADs - but coming out of that depression I have learned being in a low mood does not mean that I am depressed and that all is lost.

Since I have learned this, the low moods shift quickly as I pay no attention to them. This too shall pass. Sure, a 12 Step programme helps but I learned some self-help techniques to compliment it. If you are interested let me know and I will recommend you a book which helped me.


As to the alcohol, of course everyone is telling you the same, only you can tell.

I am reading Beyond the Influence (sequel to your book) and I have to say that I didn't quite read it as you did re alcoholic alive/normal drinkers tired.

I read it as alcohol affects people in different ways. It can be both a stimulant and a tranquiliser. Alcoholics can have a tendancy to take longer to reach the tranquiliser effect because of their tolerance but this varies. As an alcoholic I found sometimes I am high/alive when drinking and other times one glass of wine would have the tears rolling down my face and I would just sit staring into space, total lethargy.

If you are thinking that you are not an alcoholic or problem drinker based on the fact the book says 'normal drinkers' just get tired after a couple, then I would advise caution.

There have been many occassions where I have managed to drink normally and given myself a big pat on the back and felt huge relief......but it doesn't last long. No normal drinker would come to this website, imo.

Please keep in touch, however you are doing. Everyone here cares about you. I think you can see that from the huge response you have had. Take care.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:00 AM
  # 73 (permalink)  
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trucker, shifty, and intention - thank you all for you insight, advice, and shares.

I got really caught up in my emotions yesterday and feel I may have said some ugly things to some people and for that I truly apologize.

I see now that it doesn't matter if I'm an alcoholic or not - booze isn't good for me and it really is as simple as that. I'm not sure why I wanted to complicate it - other than just being angry.

As was said, you fine folks are all trying to do your best to get by and helping me along the way was optional - and for those that did (all that replied) I really appreciate it even if we didn't see eye to eye.

Thanks again gang, sometimes I don't know what I'd do without you guys.

Have a great weekend.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:02 AM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Untoxicated View Post
I see now that it doesn't matter if I'm an alcoholic or not - booze isn't good for me and it really is as simple as that.
I want to reach out and hug you. Sometimes are brains are no damn good. lol. They get us into more trouble.
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