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Old 01-06-2010, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
Chosing not to drink is NOT an easy thing as I am sure everyone here knows !
I don't choose, I don't get to choose, I abdicated the choice... If left to me I will choose to drink. I've recovered, so I can't drink.

Sounds paradoxical, or like I am brainwashed, or worse... Doesn't it?... Actually, none of those things apply... I think for myself, I'm educated and am reasonably intelligent.

I asked you before, early in the thread, about choice... Do you think you have the choice? If you can choose not to drink, every time, what's the problem?

Good thread by the way, and glad to gave you on SR!

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Old 01-06-2010, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
thanks for the advice and support guys
I have been reading other threads and noticed lot of reference to god. I am an out and out athieist. One of the things that stopped me reading the 12 steps and put me off AA was its religious references. Is this wrong?
I see the solution to reducing/stopping drinking soley within me, not some higher being or spirital guide.
I am a great believer that alcoholism/dependency is learned rather than a disease or illness.
I blame myself for drinking too much.Its my fault nobody elses. My fault I have damaged myself.
I made choices and learned to love drink , I was not born that way or made to drink.
One of the thing that bugged me when I worked with alcoholics was their "victim" status. "Sorry its not my fault I cannot help it I am an alcoholic" was churned out time after time. I don't want use any support that support the disease model of alcohol problems . Does that make sense?
Daphne, I am also an atheist. I am a huge fan of the steps. Spiritual living doesn't necessarily mean believing in a "god" as it means living a life of consciousness and being aware of what we do, being accountable, doing the right thing for ourselves and others.

I work in a Women's Treatment Facility and I love my job!! I am constantly counseling girls with their issues and I try to help guide them when I'm needed and remind them "no one or nothing makes us pick up other than ourselves." However it is a disease. It's not like cancer or diabetes but I know a lot of people wouldn't miss a chemotherapy appointment or not take their insulin if a doctor told them to.

I'm sure you're getting frustrated with some of the posts but I can tell you that the people that have posted to you are all well meaning and are hopeful for you.

Good luck with everything daphne.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:56 AM
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This is one crazy thread, good fun to read though:-)
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Cubile75 View Post
I don't choose, I don't get to choose, I abdicated the choice... If left to me I will choose to drink. I've recovered, so I can't drink.

Sounds paradoxical, or like I am brainwashed, or worse... Doesn't it?... Actually, none of those things apply... I think for myself, I'm educated and am reasonably intelligent.

I asked you before, early in the thread, about choice... Do you think you have the choice? If you can choose not to drink, every time, what's the problem?

Good thread by the way, and glad to gave you on SR!

Mark
Hi Marks thanks
it great being here too
I joked to my partner that i now am getting addicted to the addiction forum !!
I think it is about choices, but various factors make me and others make the wrong choice.....the choice that is not logical ....or bad for you
My belief is 30 years of reinforcement and conditioning have led to an over dependence on alcohol , even to the point where I will "neglect" my physical health needs.
I am 44 have health of a 60 year old but the mind of a 20 year old !
If you abdicate your choice to drink as you say - who to? ?
Surely we cannot abdicate responsibility for our actions? where is the integrity in that ?
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by vegibean View Post
Daphne, I am also an atheist. I am a huge fan of the steps. Spiritual living doesn't necessarily mean believing in a "god" as it means living a life of consciousness and being aware of what we do, being accountable, doing the right thing for ourselves and others.


I'm sure you're getting frustrated with some of the posts but I can tell you that the people that have posted to you are all well meaning and are hopeful for you.

Good luck with everything daphne.
Hi there
No not frustrated at all I find it fascinating the different views and welcomed all the comments.
Its great to be able to discuss my drinking in an open honest way without the fear of judgement. I am working at home today (well not a lot of work getting done) and normally I would be looking for a drink about now. Cellar is stocked with booze but am too busy contemplating the issues you guys are raising and the quality discussion we are having
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8 View Post
This is one crazy thread, good fun to read though:-)
Crazy well its not that mad ! i agree a really interesting discussion though
Gib ....there is an interesting place how are the monkeys!?
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:20 AM
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Would not the act of abdicating be one of integrity? Surrender is not always an act of cowardice, it can be a decision of great courage.... With all due respect, where did I indicate that I have abdicated responsibility for my actions? I never used the word, responsible. You did. I only abdicated my choice in this particular matter, the matter of alcohol.

To whom have I abdicated that choice? I cannot tell you because it would be meaningless to you, you are an atheist.

The end result is that I am no longer fighting it. I am about 16 months sober, I am at LEAST as happy, joyous and free as I ever remember being. And it gets better all the time.

Good stuff Daphne...

Mark
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:21 AM
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Wow, you're story sounds similar to mine. I'm in the psychology field as well, from a small town and can't seek help here. At least that's what I think. I did go to the next town 30 min away for a counseling session and didn't go back because of the ridiculous cost. So, I've been sober for four days only. I drink twice a week. I choose beer. Usually 6 or more. I don't drink in the morning or everyday but feel it's enough to say I have a problem. My family sure thinks so. I crave the **** though. Can't seem to stop it. I wanted to drink last night but didn't.
Anyway, I'm working on it.
Thanks for your story and honesty.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
I think alcohol is a huge part of my identity. How I see myself , probably because I started drinking at 14 ,a stage when your identity is forming.
I don't think alcohol is part of who you are rather who you wish you could be while intoxicated (otherwise you wouldn't need the alcohol). Most everyone I know, alcoholic or not, are King and Queen Sheet once they get some spirits in them.

The kind of people who don't drink are not my type. They are uptight boring and cannot let themselves go. They have issues to hide which they fear may come out when drunk. YES i know its all defensive stereotyping I am doing to disaaociate myself from non drinkers!!!
At least you recognize the rationalization, kudos to you! How do you know the kind of people who don't drink aren't your type? Do they make you uncomfortable with their comfort level of not drinking without fear of looking like a social leper? I guess my point is that we often fear what we don't understand. Those teetotalers that you speak of may be the very people you would have partied with in the past, but now they are in recovery and have found a life without alcohol to be even more rewarding than the drink itself.

I hope all is well, it sounds like you're making progress. The great thing about recovery is that no one can tell you what you "are" (they can certainly give some windy opinions LOL - I've been downwind of quite a few) but in the end only you can decide what you "are" and what needs to be done.

Glad you're here and yes this site can be addicting - that's what happens when you fill a site with caring and sharing people.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:51 AM
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hi

To whom have I abdicated that choice? I cannot tell you because it would be meaningless to you, you are an atheist.

The end result is that I am no longer fighting it. I am about 16 months sober, I am at LEAST as happy, joyous and free as I ever remember being. And it gets better all the time.

Good stuff Daphne...



MMMMMM food for thought Mark ! To tell the truth I suppose I do see surrendering or abdicting to a higher "being" weakness or a bit of a cop out sorry just MHO No offence anyone intended
You seem to be saying that the end result (you being happier) is the important thing rather than understanding the why/whats/hows of your drinking?
By my very nature I am an analyser. I need to understand something the reasons why and have difficulty accepting "just being it is"

There seems to be a huge number of folks on this forum who have replaced alcohol with spirituality /faith /god . Do you think this will hold me back as I can safely say my spritual side is virtually non exitsence. Is it necessary to replace the void left from alcohol with another belief system??
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:06 AM
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I hear myself in lots of your comments, Daphne. I thought the sober life would be boring. I also was a drinker for 30 years, longer really. I am 56 and started drinking "abnormally" when I was in my teens. I began heavy weekend drinking in my mid-20's.

It is true in my case at least that it just steadily progressed - for the worse. By my mid-30's I was a daily drinker, after work and then followed by heavy weekend drinking. By my mid 40's when I progressed to the chronic stage I moved on to daily all-day drinking, starting in the mornings. I added binge drinking to this.
I was terrified to stop drinking. It is scary to contemplate never drinking again when you have been drinking for a long time.
But, once I started recovery I saw that I could live a different way, and think differently. There is a reason why we use the phrase "One day at a time", it is a tool. If it is frightening to contemplate a lifetime, try one day at a time.

I didn't really understand this concept when I started my program, (AA, but there are others you can choose from), but it works. I don't have to think about the rest of my life, just one day.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:09 AM
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There seems to be a huge number of folks on this forum who have replaced alcohol with spirituality /faith /god . Do you think this will hold me back as I can safely say my spritual side is virtually non exitsence. Is it necessary to replace the void left from alcohol with another belief system??
I had many of the same questions when I arrived.

It's not a replacement or substitution of alcohol for something else, rather a replacement/substitution of alcohol driven thoughts and actions. Alcohol by itself is harmless - the thoughts leading up to drinking and the actions of drinking themselves can be fatal.

Quite a few people use spirituality, God, and faith as a focal point. Still quite a few others have found other ways to abstain. The beauty of it, is that there is no one path to sobriety...only a path of least resistance.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:23 AM
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I saw the abstaining as a "big punishment" for my wreckless past.
Oh trust me I know that feeling, my biggest fear of sobriety was "What the heck am I going to do if I am not drinking?". What I have found in sobriety and the steps of AA is that I am free of not only the bonds of my alcoholism, but I am also free of SELF!!!! I have also found that every single thing I did while I was drinking I can still do today, but FAR BETTER then I did while I was drinking, and I remember it vivdly the next day!

Another MAJOR discovery I have made is tons and tons of things that sober people do that is a real blast, I have been amazed at how many things & places I can go because I am sober.

Have you ever decided to not go to an event because you can not drink there?

Have you ever sat around as you are finishing off that bottle of wine talking about one of these days I am going to go there or do that and never do?

What I used to talk about doing one day while I was drinking I get to do today and not just talk about it.

Sobriety rocks, but the rocking part does not happen over night, similar to drinking rocking at first, but with time drinking really begins to stink for the most part, but for me after drinking for 40 years (I started at about 11 or 12), in the end alcohol owned me! I will not lie, I had a lot of good times those first 25-30 years, but then alcohol began to take over and slowly it began to OWN me.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:44 AM
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Is it necessary to replace the void left from alcohol with another belief system??
Well for me drinking was a way of trying to fill a hole inside of me, drinking was the only solution I knew for all things in life. I found a new solution for life that replaced the alcohol so well that drinking means nothing to me today. Spirituality, not religion has provided me a solution for living that not only benefits me, but many others. The world no longer revolves around me and my self centered needs, instead today I am a part of the world and not apart from the world.

I find joy today in the joys of others, instead of finding my own joy many times as a result of ignoring the needs or feelings of my fellow man.

You mention those boring jerks who do not drink, I too avoided them, in my drinking mind if they did not drink there was no reason to be around them. In reality I reached a poiint where I avoided any one who did not drink like I did, what this led to was me drinking alone because there were very few people that drank like I did.

Keep in mind that alcoholism is a progessive deal, it took me a lot of years to progress to the point I got to before I finally knew that I had to quit or lose everything that mattered to me and then suffering from a slow and lonely death from alcoholism
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
By my very nature I am an analyser. I need to understand something the reasons why and have difficulty accepting "just being it is"
...But you are reluctant to analyse you liver ??

Sorry if that sounds a bit cheeky but I am an analyser too and have tried that line many times myself.

One thing about this disease (or compulsion if disease is not a word you can identify with) is that it is very, very cunning. It will have you going in all sorts of directions finding different ways to rationalise, justify, argue why you drink.........or find different ways to drink, have different strategies, plans to prove you can handle drink like the normal drinker.

Be wary of this as it is distracting and its ultimate aim is to keep you drinking.


Keep it simple. You have a problem with your liver and it will either disable or kill you if you continue to drink the way you are.

Take care.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
There seems to be a huge number of folks on this forum who have replaced alcohol with spirituality /faith /god
I can see how you would think that is the case... but it is not. Not at all.

For myself, and I think it is safe to say, and many others, there was a void in our life, or our soul, if you will. Alcohol was a way in which we learned to cope with that. Maybe alcohol helped cause that void or maybe just prevented us from being whole... I don't know.... Take away the alcohol... and there is still a great gaping hole. It leaves us irritable, restless and discontent. Spirituality is a way to fill that hole, and to give purpose and meaning to our lives.

Do not worry about offending me... I know the strength, determination and hard work it took for me to surrender. Whether you think I copped out or not is not relevant to me. Really.

Where is bugsworth when we need her?? She is a woman of great faith yet feels much the way you do in terms of what we are discussing now.

Good Stuff

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Old 01-06-2010, 09:12 AM
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When it stops being fun, and it will, you'll hopefully find the motivation to quit.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by littlefish View Post
I hear myself in lots of your comments, Daphne. I thought the sober life would be boring. I also was a drinker for 30 years, longer really. I am 56 and started drinking "abnormally" when I was in my teens. I began heavy weekend drinking in my mid-20's.

It is true in my case at least that it just steadily progressed - for the worse. By my mid-30's I was a daily drinker, after work and then followed by heavy weekend drinking. By my mid 40's when I progressed to the chronic stage I moved on to daily all-day drinking, starting in the mornings. I added binge drinking to this.
I was terrified to stop drinking. It is scary to contemplate never drinking again when you have been drinking for a long time.
But, once I started recovery I saw that I could live a different way, and think differently. There is a reason why we use the phrase "One day at a time", it is a tool. If it is frightening to contemplate a lifetime, try one day at a time.

I didn't really understand this concept when I started my program, (AA, but there are others you can choose from), but it works. I don't have to think about the rest of my life, just one day.
It seems that you and others are warning me that this creeps up on you. I have never missed a day at work because of alcohol, never had an impact on relationships etc I simply cannot imagine drinking all day. What a waste of time. I think i made this point before that alcohol does not take priority its fitted in nicely to my lifestyle.
I like the idea of one day at a time, as long term is unattainable at moment and i do not want to get into the cycle of unacheiveble goals which fail and lead to regression, guilt, failure etc
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by intention View Post
...But you are reluctant to analyse you liver ??

Sorry if that sounds a bit cheeky but I am an analyser too and have tried that line many times myself.

One thing about this disease (or compulsion if disease is not a word you can identify with) is that it is very, very cunning. It will have you going in all sorts of directions finding different ways to rationalise, justify, argue why you drink.........or find different ways to drink, have different strategies, plans to prove you can handle drink like the normal drinker.

Be wary of this as it is distracting and its ultimate aim is to keep you drinking.


Keep it simple. You have a problem with your liver and it will either disable or kill you if you continue to drink the way you are.

Take care.
I think I have more analysis on my liver than most people (bloods monthly for nearly 3 yrs ) and yes I have read up on the whole process of liver disease.
At the moment the fear of illness has been outweighed by desire to hold on to my current lifestyle
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Tazman53 View Post

Keep in mind that alcoholism is a progessive deal, it took me a lot of years to progress to the point I got to before I finally knew that I had to quit or lose everything that mattered to me and then suffering from a slow and lonely death from alcoholism
Hi Taz
Thanks again for your input
Yours sounds like a very dramatic and extreme story. I would never prioritise alcohol over the people that matter. I can honestly say I have never suffered any "loss" through drink. My drinking does not impact on others.
I am pretty sure will not die a lonely death as I have lots of real friends who truly care.

I think your experience is poles apart from mine. I suppose it demonstrates the degrees/levels of differences within the many people who have issues with alcohol.
I know you are trying to help me see I COULD end up where you were but not everyones alcohol use follows the same pattern, again I feel this is a problem with seeing it as a progressive disease rather than a behavioural problem.
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