Hey Carol never mind my child if ANY person had my health problems i would tell them 2 stop drinking.
I know that is the right and logical thing to do. Doing what is right is a different matter !!
irony is i teach REBT/CBT know all about challenging and disputing irrational behaviours and thoughts ......... can talk the talk but not walk the walk ,so to speak ....what a phoney I am !

To follow up Carols question:

What advice would you give to a patient, your Mother, sister or friend that had those health probelms and was advised to abstain?

I feel compelled to say maybe you need an in-patient treatment?

Emm sorry why? on what grounds !?!

Hi Daphne

Don't get caught up in roadblocks. I had all those roadblocks and more - they all went away pretty quick when I nearly died from this.

I just wanted to live, and I wanted a life better than the one I had. To do that I had to stop drinking - and I was willing to canvass all and every option to find something that worked for me.

If you don't want to quit - if this is being driven by anything else than a sincere desire in you to quit - you won't.

If, on the other hand, you really want to? then nothing will stop you, Daphne :)

D

Hi again Daphne. I attended some court-ordered AA meetings a few yrs. ago & the word "God" was never mentioned in any of them. I think the 'higher power' reference puts some people off & it's too bad, since so much good can come from that fellowship. I use SR for my support & for me it's been enough - but I feel bad when AA is misunderstood. It has been a life saver for many & was intended to include everyone, not just those who believe in God.

Whether alcoholism is a disease or not has been debated here before & there are some interesting observations - (sorry I'm not clever enough to find or post the threads!) I personally have never felt like a victim or used it as an excuse for my terrible behavior or the chaos I've caused. I agree that deciding to quit has to come from within ourselves, but I for one needed all the help I could get. Struggling with it all alone didn't work for me.

Daphne,

AA turned me off for the same reasons. (I'm not here to promote AA, by the way. Alcohol abuse is just awful and whatever works for the individual is the right method or program, IMO.)

My attempts to stop drinking: I saw several psychologists, and read and read and read, and came at it from the self-improvement, life coaching angle, and none of it clicked with me. Those methods do click with other people, and I thought they would click with me. I think of myself as a logical, non-spiritual person. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, and I've tried to warm up to JC all my life, and: nothing. I don't believe in the 'disease theory' of alcoholism either.

I went to AA out of desperation and because there was nothing left for me to try besides an inpatient program, and that was my last resort. And, so far, it's working (in combination with SR of course!). I don't know how really, but it is. I still am not into JC, btw, it really doesn't come up much.

As for a reason to to try AA, mine was time. Time was passing by. I'd blink and a year was gone, then two, then five, then 10. It wasn't so much a fear of death, as much as a fear of a life lived muffled underwater. I had to try new methods for quitting, because I couldn't let time keep on ticking with me drinking. Drinking hasn't completely destroyed my life, but it has progressively cut me off from a lot of good things in life.

I ramble a bit, but my main point is: try different methods for quitting. Find what works for you. And if you stop for a month or two and realize that you don't have any issues with alcohol, well, then you're free to drink. That is your decision.

Welcome to SR. This is a great place to be :grouphug:

hi daphne.....nice to meet you........hope your not snowed in too deep.
my name is shaun....im an alcoholic.

Fear of death never stopped me drinking...Not that i had alot of fear when drinking.
fear was for when i wasn't drinking.
frightened little boy when sober.........all powerful when i was drinking.
alcohol was my perception changer....wash away fear sorrow guilt and shame.


its my belief that an alcohol dependent is a physical addiction to alcohol...remove the alcohol and generally after detox the problem goes away.
body being dependent on alcohol to function.......sick when it not in the blood stream.

alcoholism is a illness of body and mind......a physical craving once drinking commences....in other words once i have one the craving get worse.......i could have 1000 and i still want more........too oblivion.

a mental obsession.......plagued by thoughts of drinking...after time i am unable to clearly bring to mind the last debacle and horrors that went with it.
i start to get romantic about it.......drinking slowly becomes an option.
coupled with an unbearable mental obssession to change my perception of life again.
i become unbearable to live with..........restless ..quick tempered....arrogant.
finally the day comes when i do it all over again.....

cant drink.........cant not drink.
alcoholism is alot about what happens when i dont drink as much as what happens when i do.
if i drink and i end up in hospital.....loose everything.......and am very sick
you would think I'm nuts if i did it again the following week right?

thats why i believe alcoholism centerers in the mind..........

desperation may get you too aa.............it did me.
there i found a sponsor....a big book......and some home truths..lol
the suggested program of action IE the 12 steps changed my whole perception of me and the world around me.
finally I'm at peace without booze.....i dont plan to drink again.
i have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body
and life means something again.

i stand in a place of neutrality........i have no fear of it........nor do i crave it.
i have a healthy respect for it......

i wish you well........be careful if you stop abruptly......see the doc first.
if i can help in any way please pm me.
god be with you.....shaun.

So you are chosing to drink yourself to death?

If its just a choice, why not choose to not drink????

I'll wait here while you contemplate that...

...
...
...

If it were as simple as a change of lifestyle/change of mind... why haven't you done it yet?

Someone said something to me once that got through my thick skull:

"If you were suicidal, bas, your behavior would be perfectly rational"

I'll throw in another two or ten cents:
It sounds like you are in the decision stage: you are trying to decide if you are an alcoholic or not. Well, if you ultimately decide that you are, maybe you should then make a plan.

I would definitetly start with that doctor visit asap and find out what is going on with your liver. That is a big priority! Speak with your doctor honestly about your drinking.

Find out what kinds of recovery programs are available: there may be outpatient therapy services available in your area. I use an addiction treatment outpatient center for doctor consultations/liver tests and visits with a therapist. I also have used medications there as part of my treatment: at times I have used antabuse and Campral under nurses supervision. My doctor and I both decided I would not be a good candidate for naltrexone, as it is not really for people whose goal is total abstinance. My goal is total abstinance.

I also joined AA. But, there are alternatives to AA. You might try AA meetings anyway...just to see if it is how you think it is? You may be surprised it is not the way you think it is.

If you see someone you know there? A friend of mine walked into the rooms of AA: my reaction? Embarrassment, shame? No, my feeling was joy: I was happy to see him there. Because it meant that he was on the road to recovery. As a result, our friendship has deepened and we often meet for coffee or dinner before or after meetings.

I wish you strength in making this decision about yourself and whatever you do decide, I hope it is the best for your health and emotional well being. Please keep coming back to SR and keep us informed! There is a huge amount of support here.

[QUOTE=littlefish;2478180]I'll throw in another two or ten cents:
It sounds like you are in the decision stage: you are trying to decide if you are an alcoholic or not. Well, if you ultimately decide that you are, maybe you should then make a plan.

I would definitetly start with that doctor visit asap and find out what is going on with your liver. That is a big priority! Speak with your doctor honestly about your drinking.

Hi there , appreciate all the feedback it has helped me clarify my issues
Littlefish I think you hit nail on the head I am trying to clarify my exact problem

[QUOTE=basIam;2477874]So you are chosing to drink yourself to death?

If its just a choice, why not choose to not drink????

I'll wait here while you contemplate that...


Hi basIam
Wouldn't the world be an amazing place if everyone made the RIGHT choices!

I said drinking was learned behaviour which involved choice.This is a complex process over many years. Lots of things have reinforced my drinking , both unconscious and conscious, direct and indirect. It has involved forming a psychological association between alcohol and happy which is deeply ingrained.
Chosing not to drink is NOT an easy thing as I am sure everyone here knows !

I think the learned behaviour approach to alcohol puts more resposnibility on the drinker and is therefore a harder road to follow that seeing alcoholism as an illness/disease/genetic trait etc
To unravel and relearn non drinking behaviour that has been reinforced
over 30 years is a mammoth task.
I have already identified the triggers to my less socialable drinking habits- the 2 hours when I get in from work before my partner get homes is when I start to drink. I have tried unsuccessfully to delay this to cut out the amount drunk over all.

[QUOTE=daphne;2478231][QUOTE=littlefish;2478180]I'll throw in another two or ten cents:


I would definitetly start with that doctor visit asap and find out what is going on with your liver. That is a big priority! Speak with your doctor honestly about your drinking.

Daphne, first let me say that AA is not the only way to stay sober there are other programs, but AA in the end is what worked for me & millions of others, aethiest, agnostics, Christians, Wiccan, Hindu, Jews, Muslims, etc. You say you are in the health care field correct? Then like others, I highly suggest reading "Under The Influence" &/or "Beyond the influence". One of the primary things I suggest you jump right into is the PROGESSION of alcoholism. If one is an alcoholic as long as they continue to drink their alcoholism ALWAYS gets worse, it never levels of or gets better, it ALWAYS get worse.

My alcoholism got worse over the years, if you read either of those books and you beleive in scientific & medical research then you will see the progression is fact and not opinion. I lived in the state of denial for many years, when I finally quit I was in the early part of the final stage of alcoholism.

Why would they suggest to you to abstain from drinking if drinking was not the cause of your liver problems??????????

Read the afore mentioned books, when I went into detox I was diagnosed with a "Fatty Liver" which is the precursor to "Cirrosis of the liver". The only way I could avoid "Cirrosis of the liver" was to TOTALLY ABSTAIN from drinking. Ones liver can totally repair itself from "Fatty Liver", but ones liver can NEVER repair itself from "Cirrosis of the liver"!!!!


Now here is an important question, have you EVER worked with a "Recovered" alcoholic?

In recovery I have found that I am not the victim of my alcoholism, I do not blame my alcoholism for a darn thing, every single thing I have done in my life, drinking or not, I am fully responsible for, when I was drinking I lied to myself and convinced myself at times that I was a victim, but not just of my alcoholism, but life itself!

That is the line used by alcoholics who are making up excuses for their problems, that is not a line used by a "Recovered/Recovering Alcoholic.

One of my daughters is a recovering anorexic and while she was in treatment I spent 3 weeks in Baltimore Md. while she was in Shepard Pratt in treatment. Well right across the street from her treatment center in another Shepard Pratt building there was about 4 AA meetings every day, well I really did not have a lot to do while she was in IOP so I went to 3 meetings every day while I was there.

Take a guess as to what profession made up the vast majority of the AA meetings EVERY day? The medical proffesion!!!! Nurses, Doctors of every type! Therapist, shrinks, counselors, pharmicist etc. These medical professionals also ranged from people in the upper echelon to the rank and file, not only at Sherpard Pratt but at several other medical centers around SHerpard Pratt.

They had no issue at all with being a recovering alcoholic in AA for 2 reasons:

1. AA works for them.

2. They know it is far more respectable to be a recovering alcoholic in AA, then to be known as the DRUNK medical proffesional.


Now if you are willing to be BRUTALLY honest with your self, here is a test to take that if answered honestly (Not trying to come up with an answer to allow one to continue in a state of denial) can aid one in a self diagnosis Alcoholics Anonymous : Is A.A. For You?

You I assume have patients that simply refused to admit they had a problem of any sort, were you able to help them?

Were you able to help patients that knew they had a problem?

[QUOTE=daphne;2478241][QUOTE=daphne;2478231] Hi guys
I have thanks to the posts on here, made an appt with doc tomorrow for bloods and rescheduled my consultant appt (Feb was earliest)
I have actually a good relationship with my doctor. I have been honest with him (mainly) I drink between 30-50 units a week on average. This is above the recommended levels but not THAT excessive.
My liver enzyme was elevated to 750 (should be 50) has fluctuated over the few years I have been tested. I have no known major liver conditions (been tested for the lot).Last year a scan showed no inflamation or chirrosis and was healthy.
I was advised initially to drink within safe limits. I did this for while made no difference to results. I was then told to cut out all drink. Did this for 6 weeks but ALSO led the life of a saint. Ate the healthiest diet with no processed food, no meat ,organic food, herbal tea no caffiene etc etc Also did exercise. The results of the liver bloods after 6 weeks of this were slightly worse!! So I thought **** this and reverted back to my normal drinking.
In that 6 weeks I had no physical reactions to not drinking ( I am not physically dependant) and TBH I did not crave it as much as thought, but my life was "boring" without it. I missed the feeling of being mellow and the banter/chat you get in drinking company. The sense of occassion alcohol brings. I was stressed out in those 6 weeks and in the end it did not help my liver anyway !

Dapne glad to hear you have made a doctors appointment and have a good relationship with your Dr.

A question if you don't mind, if your blood sugar levels were border line diabetic, and your doctor suggested that you modify your diet and you did for a time, got retested and your blood sugar was worse then the last time, what would you do?

Alcohol kills millions every year, so does diabetes.

Now you say your liver enzymes were worse after you abstained for 6 weeks........ please explain to me what logic you used to decide to just pick up the drinking again after 6 weeks of abstaining?

Do you think that alcohol was helping your liver so you better start drinking again to get your liver in better shape?

Was the 6 weeks you were off the booze a bit difficult at times and you were just itching for a reason to start again?

Daphne, you seem a very smart lady. I think in a way you are trying to analyze 'us' and our replies in order to find a solution to your problem or maybe even try and convince yourself there is none. Nobody on here is going to tell you it is okay to keep drinking. It would be irresponsible, because most of us know where the road leads. Your partner means well, but maybe he is too close to be objective.
Do you really believe that 30 - 50 units a week is not excessive?
I am an atheist too, very much so, but I did find AA very soothing if it makes sense using that word. A feeling of belonging even if just sitting there and listening. Whatever you decide, I wish you good luck.

Hello Daphne ~

It often occurs to me how people who don't have a drinking problem (or are true social drinkers) never even have to think about labels, choices, desires, etc.

These people make a decision to have a drink if/when the opportunity presents itself and in many instances, their decision will be 'no' - case closed. No second thoughts, no regrets, no justification, rationalization, nada.

It amazes me that there are people like this actually walking around. I am not one of them.

As for AA, I've always said it's my belief that it's not for everyone, but it is my belief that people who want to get sober can gain alot of insight and support from people who've been there. SR is great, but so is face-to-face support.

I don't know how meetings work where you are, but here in my end of the world, my own LADAC went to meetings that primarily consisted of other LADAC's and professionals (lawyers, doctors, etc.). I won't go so far to say that they're 'underground' but they do exist here specifically for that reason (to be discreet). It is what it is. I'm not on the GSO board of AA.

You might ask other professionals that you trust about the possible existence of any (for research?) Whatever it takes. Honesty is the best policy but when it's a matter of life or death, we do what we have to.

Best wishes,
Humble

Hi Daphne,

There's lots of good advice in the previous posts.

Many of us were ashamed and scared to admit that there was something off about their alcohol consumption, and quite honestly, the label doesn't matter, alcoholic, alcohol dependent, whatever you name it.

Also, this does affect all kinds of people: academics, working class people,teachers homeless people, doctors, people from a wide range of education, social background and age and drinking patterns. Some have lost their job, their health, their money, some got DUIs, some landed in jail, some have gotten severe health problems, some haven't experienced any of this. Yet.

The common denominator is that if you have tried to moderate or to abstain and have had a very difficult time doing so, experiencing obsessing about drinking while quitting, physical or mental withdrawal and cravings, it is very likely that you cannot stay quit without working some kind of program, be it A.A., SMART recovery or Life Ring. I agree with those who say that the people at meetings are there for the same reasons, and they were probably equally scared sh*tless at their first meeting as you are now.

I can relate to this, and for me at least some of my drinking was numbing out those things. Getting sober involved adressing the underlying issues and it was only afterwards that I realized that alcohol deprived me of a real chance to adress these issues and to develop healthy coping mechanisms.

If your health is already compromised, and you continue drinking, at some point your health will deteriorate more and the damage will at some point be irreversible. If you decide to become sober and stay sober, chances are prob ably good that your liver will recover. You also give yourself the possibility top find out what other things besides alcohol are making you feel good and make you enjoy life.

Nearly seven months ago I couldn't imagine a fine meal, a social event, an evening after a stressful day without alcohol. Yet, today I even enjoy it more. It is possible to cope with stressful situations and pain but also as possible to enjoy life and have fun without alcohol. It requires some work. but it isw all worth it. You can do it too :) Hugs, and take care, S.

Hi there
Yes you are right it makes no logical sense to stop the abstaining.
Like I said in previous post I was thinking right if I am really "good" and get my results back down I will not have to hear the "you can never have another drink ever" from the docs.

I thought a bit of pain and hard work would buy me more time being able to drink. I saw the abstaining as a "big punishment" for my wreckless past.

That I suppose is the big question I need to answer Why am I so scared of the "you can never drink again" scenario
I think alcohol is a huge part of my identity. How I see myself , probably because I started drinking at 14 ,a stage when your identity is forming.
p.s. Oh i did the AA test you sent me thanks- borderline case as i got 4 yes answers out of 12.