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Old 12-20-2009, 04:56 PM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by basIam View Post
But the question is. . could you count on you knowledge of your alcoholic condition to prevent you from drinking?
Once I decided I was done suffering, yes.
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bugsworth View Post
ok...so state that for YOU self knowledge is useless.
I do watch this forum basIam...for close to two and a half years. I dn't see what you have in your month here at SR.
and the 10 or more friends I know who have died thinking self knowledge would keep them sober
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob23 View Post
Once I decided I was done suffering, yes.
You didnt have to do any work?
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:01 PM
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I'm sorry about your friends, but the reality is what you witnessed is people who didn't want to do what it takes to get sober. It is tragic for sure, unfortunately there are people who resign themselves to the lifestyle and live it to the end.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by basIam View Post
You didnt have to do any work?
Your question was could I count on the knowledge of my alcoholic condition to prevent me from drinking. My answer was yes. Now you want to know about my 'work'? LOL

I suggest you ratchet down your rhetoric a notch. Your message is being drowned out.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bugsworth View Post
I'm sorry about your friends, but the reality is what you witnessed is people who didn't want to do what it takes to get sober.
Absolutely. . . And the reason they didnt want to do what it took is they didnt think it was necessary. They believed in their ability to make correct choices. They believed that their self knowledge would be adequate.

It takes only one example to prove my contention true - that self knowledge is useless for an alcoholic. Unfortunately, there are countless.

I do not propose that you, bugsworth, are incapable of staying sober on self knowledge. I am not contending that you, bugsworth, did not lose the power of choice.

I actually believe that about you. I believe there are many people like you.

I know for a FACT - F*A*C*T - that there are also alot of people NOT like you. Myself for one, judging from what Aysha, mmeat and others have said, them as well, but I may be wrong.

Furthermore, I know there are alot of people not like you who will die believing they are like you. How do I know? Because I have seen it.

You contend everyone IS like you - that is arrogant. And I repeat - dangerous.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob23 View Post
Your question was could I count on the knowledge of my alcoholic condition to prevent me from drinking. My answer was yes. Now you want to know about my 'work'? LOL

I suggest you ratchet down your rhetoric a notch. Your message is being drowned out.
Actually it was an extension of my question.

Let me rephrase the question,

Was knowledge about your alcoholic condition enough to keep you sober, or did it lead you to a realization that you had to take action?
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:25 PM
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There is a difference between self knowledge being useless and self knowledge alone being insufficient to stop the alcoholic from taking the next drink.

This journey I am on involves a lot of self discovery.

Mark
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:25 PM
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Yes basIam what you do is repeat...you repeat the same ideology that everyone in aa is taught to repeat. You see things the way you want to see them. You call me dangerous out of fear...you should not let your fear stand in the way of listening with an open mind.
There are worse things that I could do than allow people to see hope where you see none.
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bugsworth View Post
Yes basIam what you do is repeat...you repeat the same ideology that everyone in aa is taught to repeat. You see things the way you want to see them. You call me dangerous out of fear...you should not let your fear stand in the way of listening with an open mind.
There are worse things that I could do than allow people to see hope where you see none.
hi bugs.......is it warm in here or is it just me...lol.

i wasnt taught to repeat the same ideology in aa.
it was suggested to me that if i found anyone as hopeless and desperate as i was.....to share how i drank and how i stay sober.......period.

ive come across plenty of those over the years.....some listened and rejected it.....of those some found other programs.
some got drunk.........some died..........some stopped and found that once the drinking stopped their life lite up.

all ive got is a story of how i drank...........and how i stay sober.

personally i dont labour the point that if you dont stop you gonna die.
most alcoholics of my type that i work with are well aware of the fact that time is limited if drinking continues.
theyve been told by doctors....therapists..........

i believe that telling a drinker of my type that they are gonna die if they continue to drink is like [email protected] in the wind.
made no difference to my drinking.......why would it.....im alcoholic ill just have another and forget about the risks..
towards the end........i wished for the end anyway..

no point ......in going on about lossing life...............far better to show how life can become something wonderful...how life can become managable...and without fear...

i keep an open mind to how people stay sober.........frankly its none of my business.
if it becomes my business.....my ego becomes that of a drunk again.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:36 PM
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I dont know guys. All I know is I am abotu to enter a 6 to 9 mos inpatient program that requires me to attend a meeting every night and 5 days og IOP that follow 12 steps.
I am going to be honest. I have fought it almost to the death not to even give it a second thought. But I have no other otions at this point. My life sux and will continue to get worse if I dont get it together. I KNOW THIS ABOUT MYSELF! That is my self knowledge and all the self knowledge I need to know at this point. IMO.
I have for the first time ever cracked the NA book. And I have to say it isnt anyting like alot of hardcore steppers make it out to be. I am scared as it is going into this. And its things like this thread that make it even harder for me to want to keep an open mind. It is giving me all these preconceived ideas that everything is going to be an arguement or I am going to be told I am doomed if I dont follow exactly like someone says. And if I beg to differ or form my own opinion I am going to be outcasted. Well I dont take too well to things like that.
There are alot of people here that dont come off like that. But the ones who just have to get the last word in and its this way or no way kinda stuff, really makes me rethink what I am getting myself into.
I just want to stay clean. I am tired of being like this. And I def dont want to die like this.
I fought every freakin day in the street. I dont feel I should have to fight in my recovery. Not like that.
Call me out if you see me slipping. But dont tell me that what your doing is the only thing that is going to save me.
Because when it comes down to it. The only person that is really going to save me is me.
Whether I decide to commit and do the work to stay clean and change my addict thinking and behavior. However I may do that.
And I believe that recovery is about self knowledge. Everything in life is. You can have the will to keep dieing or to keep living.
And you can have help in doing either.
I need to know what drives me to keep getting high. But most importantly, I need to know whats going to keep me clean. And scare actics arent it. If thats all it took, I would have stopped getting high years ago.
I need to see others living the dream. I need to know it doesnt have to be like this anymore. F what anyone says. Thats just a bunch of lip smacking. I want to see actions.
Hope is what has kept me trying. I was hopeless one time in my life. And I tried to kill myself. Being hopeless didnt make me want to get better. It made me want to end it. But I couldnt even succeed at that. So I spent my little week in the hospital recovering from surgery and went right back to dieing slow as usual.
I dont think I have ever had the hope that I have found here at SR. And from my family.
I dont care if this is just the internet. I see real people overcoming the very thing that is killing me. And for someone who feels like it is impossible to lay that pipe down. Just hearing their stories and seeing them succeed and do it brings me so much hope and excitement for the future.
We all have war stories. So mine may be worse than yours or vice versa. Big deal, If you heard one you heard them all. But I cant say that I have those success stories. Not yet.
Maybe I did miss the point. And at this point in this thread, we may all have by now.
All I need to know is how to get where I want to be. I dont need to know where I have been.Only I know that for sure anyway.
I do respond to the kick in the ass. But only when I need it. When I am starying from my course of action. When I am running game. Then tell me about myself.
But until then. All I need is to see and hear where I am going in this scary ass journey to a better life.
You know, I have been in some scary situations using. But I can 9 times out of 10 tell what may or may not happen. And its all too familiar to me.
But living in recovery? Now thats some real scary stuff I know nothing about.

I just want you all to know this.
I am far from a newcomer here. And its threads like this that make me second guess these programs and make me want to go it alone.
I use to tell my boys in the streets. If we all just worked together, Everyone could eat and no one would be feeling the heat.
This recovery thing isnt so different from using. Sometimes its like some people have to have all the power.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:07 PM
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Thanks everyone.

This is from our SR posting guidlines

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Because of repeated violations of Rule 4, this thread is now closed.

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