ashleek

I don't mean this in a mean way but something happened at my AA meeting lastnight and it really really bothers me and if I can use this site to maybe change someone or something then I find it powerful.

So, there was a newcomer and he is an addict. Mind you that we are in an AA meeting. Well there is this old timer and he is kinda getting on to the boy a little, pressing God on him (not a higher power) and kinda rolling his eyes a little bit.

Let me also stress, there are no NA meetings in our small town. AA is the only thing I have where I can relate to people and I need AA and all the wonderful accepting people there.

Well come to find out this guy also kinda went a little too far at another meeting in town. A newcomer came and he was an addict and this guy pretty much told him....this is AA and we can't help you here you need to go to NA. If I had been there that night it wouldn't have been pretty.

My point is I am an addict, I need help and if I was turned away, wasn't wanted and told there was no help for me in that room then I may have used. Needless to say that one boy he said there was no help for him in these rooms never came back. So, he is out there still suffering.

I just want to say that we shouldn't turn anyone away. How would that make you feel. Don't press God on newcomers cause that could scare them to death and they won't come back. Not everyone has God. I just can't imagine someone turning someone else away that needs help, that wants help just because the only requirement is to not drink. But when AA is all ya got or even if it's not and you feel more comfortable in AA DON'T turn that person away, they want sobriety as much as we do. Alcohol is a DRUG, we are all addicts whether we are addicted to alcohol or we are addicted to pain pills or herion.

I just had to get this off my chest because maybe there is someone on here that does the same thing at meetings and we can't turn our own away. Do you think Bob would have done that?

Ago

Have you read AA's traditions?

AA is for Alcoholics, and each meetings primary purpose is to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers

Addicts are welcome at open meetings to listen, but they can never be members

parentrecovers

hey ago, i don't think i can agree with your stance on this. i think, like ashleek shared - addiction is addiction, and if folks come to aa meetings seeking esh due to other addictions besides that of alcohol - they should very much be welcomed.

i have a friend from my alanon group that comes to alanon because of a food addiction. she is always willing to share and help others, a very active member.

thanks for listening, k

smacked

To me it sounds like they pointed him in the appropriate direction (NA). I couldn't expect the folks at a food addiction meeting to help me with issues of sex addiction.. some of this stuff is non-transferable. I would expect some compassion, and getting pointed in the most appropriate direction for support.. which I feel (based on this post) he received.

If I'm reading your location correctly (Paris, KY), there's lots of NA meetings within 20 miles..

Ago

It's not a matter of what you think, it's a matter of what AA's traditions are, and what AA is, have you read the traditions? Are you an alcoholic? Are you a member of AA?

This is not an opinion

3.) Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. Group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.

5.) Each Alcoholics Anonymous group ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose-that of carrying its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

These are the relevent AA traditions

CLOSED MEETING DEFINITION

This is a closed meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. In support of A.A.'s singleness of purpose, attendance at closed meeting is limited to persons who have a desire to stop drinking. If you think you have a problem with alcohol, you are welcome to attend this meeting. We ask that when discussing our problems, we confine ourselves to those problems as the relate to alcoholism. (The 1987 General Service Conference Made this statement available as an A.A. service piece for those groups who wish to use it.)

I can continue to cite chapter and verse if You like, but AA is alcoholics helping alcoholics, period.

Addicts are welcome to listen at open meetings but they can never be "members" because they don't have the ONLY necessary requirement to be a member, which is to be an alcoholic with a desire to quit drinking, you don't even have to be sober to be a member, but you do have to have a problem with alcohol.

We won't turn an addict away from an open meeting, he will be welcomed, and in many cases be given help, and even find sponsorship, but he will never be a member nor be welcome at closed meetings.

I am not theorizing, this is not my opinion.

ashleek

But Addiction is Addiction. Alcohol is a drug we are all addicted to a substance of some kind. And to turn someone away who is suffering is baffeling!!! What example does that set for AA'ers. Or as us as human beings? To turn someone away, tell them they are not welcome, they aren't like alcoholic. Yeah I've read the traditions and you know what BOB would not have turned anyone away. They didn't have NA back then or I am sure BOB would not have turned them away. It makes me sick, very sick to think someone still suffers because they were turned away. Those traditions were wrote years and years ago and I'm sure that addiction was not as bad back then or else Bob would have helped those people too.

HOW could we do this to anyone? Seriously as a human being. So, being addicted to a substance that is a mind altering drug should be welcomed, I don't care what the traditions say. In my town everyone welcomes everyone except for that one guy. Because we care about that person and what they are going through. We have all been there whether it be alcohol or drugs.

parentrecovers

well, thank goodness rules can be bent sometimes.

Anna

Ashleek,

I understand your feeling of wanting to help any person who is suffering with addiction, and I share that feeling.

There is always a welcome here at SR and we are always happy to see new members.

parentrecovers

when my daughter got out the first day from 90 days in rehab, she wanted to go to an aa meeting before we took her to her half-way house. and she wanted us (my hubby and i) to go with her - to an open meeting.

needless to say, we had all had a lot of stress and emotions that day. and when we got to what we thought was an open meeting - it started and it was actually a closed meeting. so we were introducing ourselves and my husband apoligized to the folks at the meeting for our mistake, told them what was going on that day, etc, and he and i offered to wait for our daughter at a coffee shop down the street.

the folks at that meeting refused to let us go, told us they understood what a tough day we were having, and focused the meeting discussion around families and alcoholism.

we needed those people that day.

Mark75

Asleek, I don't think anyone in AA is going to turn their back on another human being who is suffering. I'm AA and wouldn't walk away from an addict without trying to offer a hand up.

Narcotic addiction was in fact an issue in the early days. Bill W. himself spoke about what to do about those with problems other than alcohol. There is an AA pamphlet written about this... see if they have one at your next meeting.

This old timer you are angry at? No, I don't like that approach either. We can agree on that for sure.

Mark

foglift

I feel sitting down and talking to someone to explain why they may find NA more helpful with their particular addiction would be important, but if they call someone out and say that "you are not welcome here" I think would be lacking in compassion. It also depends on the dynamics of the group as many AA people accept other substance addicts with open arms. Sometimes its not as much what you say as in how you say it.

ashleek

I guess I just don't see it as being a very good example and I just know how I would have felt because I had already isolated myself from the world because I'm not like 'normal' people, I as an addict have dealt with rejection and I don't know that I could have handled a rejection from an AA group.

ElegantlyWasted

To me the question is how can this
person best be helped. I know of people who are closet narcotic abusers that choose to go to aa simply because the quality of na in their area is for shat and it's part of their program. Narcotics addiction is a different creature than alcoholism, yet the same treatment methods extrapolate well to all addictive behaviors. I think the question for the origional poster is how can you best help this individual while still respecting that aa is for alcohol and na is for narcotics... If they are a poly drug abuser, and alch is part of the mix, work that angle. Addictive behavior manifestes in many ways for most abusers and a quality program addresses this issue. Maybe ask around and find someone in aa who was a poly abuser with some quality sobriety and hook a brother up with a sponsor, while still respecting those who follow the letter of the law instead of it's spirit.

keithj

Ashlee,

Calm down. Almost every person I know new in recovery had this same reaction. Most necomers are appalled when they come across the traditions and a member willing to stand up for them. I was exactly the same way. I thought, hey, here's someone suffering, why can't we help him? I couldn't understand this nonsense about primary purpose and singleness of purpose.

But, thankfully by then, I had enough spiritual sense to know that I wasn't always right, and that some of these old timers who had been around AA for twenty years, might just have a point, even if I couldn't understand it. To me, it's spiritual growth to recognize that somebody else may have considered this idea prior to me.

In fact, that's exactly what happened when the traditions of AA were written down. They were not sent down from on high and codified. They were formed pragmatically. Bill Wilson went around the country visiting groups that were successful and groups that were failing or had failed. He took note of what worked and what did not. The conclusion was, that AA getting involved in other problems led to repeated failure. Hence, many of the traditions deal with sticking to that central purpose.

It's the lesser of evils, Ashlee. A weak, failed AA that doesn't help anyone, or a rigid, primary purpose AA that helps alcoholics.

Maybe you disagree, and I can sympathize. I, too, thought it was all nonsense. But I learned that I had to accept what is if I wanted to grow spiritually. Stick around and watch. Groups that deviate too far and too long from that primary purpose lose their effectiveness. They become useless to anyone who suffers.

Practically speaking, instead of complaining about what you don't like, why don't you become the solution? Start NA in your town. A lot of AA members would be happy to sponsor the first few members to get you started. Then you self-grow other members, and before you know it, NA is there.

Or, Lexington is what, 15 minutes away? Get in touch with the strong NA there and have them help you. Any serious member would jump at the chance.

ashleek

If alcohol was so different than drugs I wouldn't have been in detox with both. They would have had seperate wings. It isn't that different, I relate a lot more with the AA'ers than with NA'ers. We are more alike than different.

Astro

It sickens me to hear about people who are chased out of AA meetings or feel unwelcomed because they don't "fit the requirements" that a "governor" decides he needs to enforce. I understand we need to uphold our Traditions, but sometimes the lack of compassion and tolerance makes me want to vomit. I've heard AA'ers tell addicts to shut up at meetings, that their shares aren't relevant to alcoholism, I've known addicts who's presence wasn't accepted at our meetings, a few of those people kept suffering and eventually hung themselves, OD'd, or blew their brains out.

But I also have to say ashlee, when I needed help I had to plant my butt in a chair and commit myself to staying and doing the work, whether someone made me feel welcome or not, whether they rammed their God down my throat or not, I had to do whatever it took to get clean and sober and stay that way. No excuses, no pointing the finger and crying "foul", I was there to save my own life.

I agree, we shouldn't turn anyone away. This is a good post, since the holidays are coming up maybe we can think of someone we haven't seen in the rooms of recovery recently and give them a call. They might be suffering, hearing from a friend might save their life.

Ago

I agree with this sentiment, and I have sponsored addicts and addict/alcoholics and will do so in the future, my point was what AA is and isn't

If no one cared about the traditions, AA would get lost, then who would it help?
I am glad non alcoholics continue to know what's best for alcoholics and aren't afraid to tell them so.

AA is by alcoholics, for alcoholics, find someone else to help thank you very much, we are doing fine without someone coming in and telling us to break OUR traditions and break OUR rules.

I will ask again, are YOU and alcoholic? are YOU a member of Alcoholics Anonymous? If so why would you choose to trample the traditions, and if not, who are you to give advice on how to run AA?

I stated in each post addicts are welcome to listen and get help at open meetings, I'm not sure where that is getting lost

This is what Bill says

A.A. History – Problems Other Than Alcohol

smacked

I don't think the 'argument' here is about whether or not alcohol is a drug, or addiction is addiction.. it seems that it's about people helping people.. and I'll stand by what I feel, that he WAS pointed in the most appropriate direction.. I didn't read anything here that said he was told to 'get out' and was 'not welcome'.. maybe that's how it felt. I wouldn't advocate for someone telling another person to get lost, go away, you're not welcome, etc.. but it doesn't sound like (let me know if I'm wrong) that this is what happened. He was told the reasons that AA was not the most appropriate place for him, and told where he could find appropriate help. I would HOPE that is how I would be treated when I needed something too.

Now if the debate is really about whether addicts and alcoholics should share meetings, and programs..thats aWHOLE other thread, one that's been posted many times. Luckily there are the traditions, guidelines for what programs work best for people suffereing from what types of problems/addictions/whatever.

He could get lots of support here, I know that much!

ashleek

Astro,

My point exactly. I understand the traditions and the brunt of the AA program. It just seems to be so discouraging to hear that people are turned away. Like I said we are more alike than different. They are both mind altering, we were all addicted to whatever. I think to single someone out is harsh, it breaks my heart, makes me wanna vomit too.

I don't see how it is straying so far from the program that it would fail. We are in the same boat is how I see it and how a lot of others see it. I keep going no matter what that old man would say to me (which he has never said anything to me). Everyone else in our groups here do welcome everyone. I could go to NA but I am not driving to Lex at 7 o'clock at night and not getting home till around 10pm. I enjoy NA but to have that drive, gas as high as it is, it's not convienant for me.

I just wanna point out I do understand where AA'ers are coming from. But come on guys...really....we are in the same boat.

parentrecovers

please. play nice - we're all just hashing around this topic. and from the quick replies, it seems to be a HOT one