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Old 10-20-2009, 07:56 AM   #21 (permalink)
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My username is actually named after the Benicio Del Toro on the movie, The Usual Suspects.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:08 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I strongly recommend any readings by Joseph Campbell, I was introduced to his book "Man and his Symbols" for a college psychology class that studies reoccuring symbols, themes and ideas in all cultures of the world. It is an interesting read, much of his work is. I thought of this when I read Boomslang's coment about Yoda. Campbello references Star Wars as a modern answer to the ancient ideas of a "greater power". He also references remote cultures that are seemingly "untouched" by modern, western ideas yet they all seem to have a common guiding force, power, being....etc......really facinating info IMO ....I was drawn by it as a young college student....and I still find myself reflecting on it nearly 15 years later....


Just some food for thought


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Old 10-20-2009, 08:19 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Goat do you think AA in Isreal only works for those with a Christian God, or in Turkey?

Goat my concept of a HP whom out of convinance more then anything I choose to call God could be a Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu or what ever.

In my area no one is shunned or the like for being aethiest, agnostic, Buddist, etc..... we understand that it is thier conception that works for them and that is what matters.

I have been to many meetings where God/Higher Powers have been brought up, but not defined as Christian or what ever.

Having never seen my HP I have no idea if He is a he or a she, if He wears robes, is black or white, I could care less, we have a connection, He has my back and He loves me, & guides me when I listen.

Goat if what you say is true I would say 2 things:

1. There is no reason in a meeting to state what your HP is or is not.

2. If the meetings you go to have folks like that I would suggest finding some different meetings, I have never had any one in my area or outside of it try to convert me to anything, heck I have never even been asked to attend some ones church, temple or synagouge.

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I can say with complete love for the program that there is enough hypocrisy and "talking of the walk" in the rooms of AA that whatever you draw strength from is your business and not open to others judgment, whether implicit or direct. Keep walking your walk.
I totally concur.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:35 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Goat do you think AA in Isreal only works for those with a Christian God, or in Turkey?
Took me a couple years to even know what my sponsor's brand of HP was. It was irrelavent and still is.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:37 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Keith I had known my sponsor for over a year before I even knew he went to church!
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:54 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Oh man, am I ever excited for you, Fenster. If you take the challenge and start looking around and within (the BB sends us directly to ourselves to find higher power), you are about to blast into dimensions you may never have expected - but probably always have suspected.

There is such a wealth of possibility - once you decide what feels most interesting and comfortable for you, you can find mind-blowing authors, poets, musicians, and just regular people whose own intelligence reminds you of what is closest to your heart - and go from there. (see Kabir, below). Good luck and

"Don't give up. Never, never, never give up." -- Winston Churchill, alcoholic and depressive who, in the meantime, saved the free world!

"Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

Last edited by AstroGirl; 10-20-2009 at 09:59 AM. Reason: add final quote
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:36 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Okay.....I'm a dingbat!!! "Man and his Symbols" is by Carl Jung (famous for his study of Dreams and Symbolism along with Freud) however the book references the work of Joseph Campbell who has written books like "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" and "Masks of God" I have read the former.
Fenster, this is really an amazing topic that has always been in debate....take a minute to look either of these authers up and you may find that the answers you seek have been sought by many others as well...... Good luck in your own journey!
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
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My experience is that spiritual growth & understanding happens as I work through the steps and continue to practice them. Simple beginnings.

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Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.

When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you. At the start, this was all we needed to commence spiritual growth, to effect our first conscious relation with God as we understood Him. Afterward, we found ourselves accepting many things which then seemed entirely out of reach. That was growth, but if we wished to grow we had to begin somewhere. So we used our own conception, however limited it was.

We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.

That was great news to us, for we had assumed we could not make use of spiritual principles unless we accepted many things on faith which seemed difficult to believe. When people presented us with spiritual approaches, how frequently did we all say, "I wish I had what that man has. I'm sure it would work if I could only believe as he believes. But I cannot accept as surely true the many articles of faith which are so plain to him." So it was comforting to learn that we could commence at a simpler level.
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