I had two glasses... then walked away
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 309
Wait a minute! ::points to self:: This 'normal' drinker questions and obsesses over such things all the time. Seriously though... does every hypochondriac who thinks they have/ obsesses over sarcoidosis really have sarcoidosis?
Focus
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Gypsy Feet 
alcoholism and hypochondria are two totally different issues=)
I suppose a regular drinker who is also a hypochondriac might obsess. Eureka! You've found your way to be normal=)
I suppose a regular drinker who is also a hypochondriac might obsess. Eureka! You've found your way to be normal=)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
If we could test for alcoholism like Drs can test for sarcoidosis it might be a fair analogy
I dunno K.
I'm not telling you to leave by any means, but if you are a normal drinker, and you've decided that - then why *are* you still hanging out here with a buncha hard-a$$ed old drunks who keep trying to tell you you're an alkie ?
D
I dunno K.
I'm not telling you to leave by any means, but if you are a normal drinker, and you've decided that - then why *are* you still hanging out here with a buncha hard-a$$ed old drunks who keep trying to tell you you're an alkie ?
D
Focus
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 206
You guys made me laugh tonight. Good point Dee... I'm a presenter of counter-arguments because if I just take someone's word for it... it wouldn't be very fair to not look at every option before drawing a conclusion.
I think that is why I liked research... for nearly every argument someone had to support something, another could refute it.... but which is right? This is what also makes me "complicated" in life
I think that is why I liked research... for nearly every argument someone had to support something, another could refute it.... but which is right? This is what also makes me "complicated" in life
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
no you're on the money lisa - we've just switched threads 
and fair enough K/fake Laura - searching for answers is good...just don't confuse the searching for action ok?
I argued a lot too - and drank while I was doing it. Didn't do me much good in the end.
D
and fair enough K/fake Laura - searching for answers is good...just don't confuse the searching for action ok?
I argued a lot too - and drank while I was doing it. Didn't do me much good in the end.
D
Your Distant Friend
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 255
Hopeful, Maybe you have fully recovered from your binge drinking days..a lot of non-alcohlics do it out of youngness, giddyness, school year college peer pressure,
etc. It can, in some seem to be "grew out of". So, maybe your not really an alcoholic. Many of us have tried controlled use and things were a complete wreck. Controlled drinking is progress , I suppose, compared the unhappy forced sobriety test every alcohlic, and sometimes "regular" drinkers sometimes give themselves.
My parents are happily married and drink wine about 2-3 times a week. My dad does the occasional beer. They are not alcohlics. I am not jealous or envious at all,
I just know I become more of an assshole than I am sober on booze, like an allergy,
While they don't have this allergy, which manifests insanity. And I'm sure they aren't envious of my superpowers which they perceive as foriegn to them and I am sure they do not possess. They see the curse within my blessings, and I see the curse within theirs.
They are contented people when they drink, I am tormented.
I am contented when I have intense intellectual conversations, and with loud elecctronic dance music..
They are tormented, I see the pain in their brain when they try to think or listen, so that's their allergy. So my point is, we all have allergies, most of us, metaphorically, and maybe drining alcohol isn't one of yours. thanks for sharing
etc. It can, in some seem to be "grew out of". So, maybe your not really an alcoholic. Many of us have tried controlled use and things were a complete wreck. Controlled drinking is progress , I suppose, compared the unhappy forced sobriety test every alcohlic, and sometimes "regular" drinkers sometimes give themselves.
My parents are happily married and drink wine about 2-3 times a week. My dad does the occasional beer. They are not alcohlics. I am not jealous or envious at all,
I just know I become more of an assshole than I am sober on booze, like an allergy,
While they don't have this allergy, which manifests insanity. And I'm sure they aren't envious of my superpowers which they perceive as foriegn to them and I am sure they do not possess. They see the curse within my blessings, and I see the curse within theirs.
They are contented people when they drink, I am tormented.
I am contented when I have intense intellectual conversations, and with loud elecctronic dance music..
They are tormented, I see the pain in their brain when they try to think or listen, so that's their allergy. So my point is, we all have allergies, most of us, metaphorically, and maybe drining alcohol isn't one of yours.
thanks for sharing
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
I'm just going to put out a fact I just learned in class— a symptom of middle stage alcoholism: rationalization. I was so good at it, it was amazing. When I saw on the handout that it was a symptom of alcoholism my jaw dropped a little. It is in a way the coexisting symptom with denial or just another form.
The thing is I don't want to invalidate anyone's own experience but I've been there. Like LBD's friend, it still blows my mind that normal drinkers don't think about alcohol. I in a way don't believe it only because I can't imagine it because it has never really been my experience. I guess I always thought alcohol was like that for everyone. So it takes this leap of imagination to imagine someone actually exists who would only drink one drink in a week even though in theory they can have it whenever and in their minds they are never thinking about it. It seriously blows my mind. But normal drinkers exist. Their experience just is so far from my own that it is very hard to imagine.
The thing is I don't want to invalidate anyone's own experience but I've been there. Like LBD's friend, it still blows my mind that normal drinkers don't think about alcohol. I in a way don't believe it only because I can't imagine it because it has never really been my experience. I guess I always thought alcohol was like that for everyone. So it takes this leap of imagination to imagine someone actually exists who would only drink one drink in a week even though in theory they can have it whenever and in their minds they are never thinking about it. It seriously blows my mind. But normal drinkers exist. Their experience just is so far from my own that it is very hard to imagine.
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,262
Hi ... It's me (hopeful999/Laura). I am still here. I prematurely deleted my account here (I was very hurt yesterday) and then realized I had made some connections here that should not be broken. So I signed up under this new name (Traderjane). I know it's against the rules of the forum to have two names, but I'm not trying to trick anyone and now I'm Traderjane, got it? I was touched that some of you still need me on here (thanks so much to you all who made me feel welcome and and Laura/K -- I'm still here for you).
I was hurt by the negative posting and by getting reprimanded about my post. I am still very vulnerable and cannot really handle the negative stuff. I have had enough drama in my life in the past few years to last my whole life and I don't want more of it on a forum that is supposed to be helping me. So I should not be posting here unless and until I fall flat on my a**, admit total defeat and decide that complete sobriety is the only answer. Message received loud and clear, guys. So I won't be posting any progress reports here about moderation. I did find another forum where it's a little different and alternate views are tolerated. I will be checking in there and posting there without fear of negative consequences.
Please understand I'm not saying I have figured it all out. I'm not "cured." I'm not even saying I'm convinced moderation is the right thing for me. I am just exploring the options at this point. Enough said about that. I hope that makes sense. And I'm not trying to argue for this or that --- I'm just sharing my feelings and experiences honestly, which I thought was the point of forums like this.
I'm actually proud of the progress I have made since June 21st since I joined. I'm alcohol free most of the time and things are going well. I think some of you may recall what state I was in when I joined.
Well ... I need 5 posts under my new name to be able to send PMs. I'll get there, but I won't be posting about my situation for a while. Thanks so much.
"real Laura"
I was touched that some of you still need me on here (thanks so much to you all who made me feel welcome and and Laura/K -- I'm still here for you). I was hurt by the negative posting and by getting reprimanded about my post. I am still very vulnerable and cannot really handle the negative stuff. I have had enough drama in my life in the past few years to last my whole life and I don't want more of it on a forum that is supposed to be helping me. So I should not be posting here unless and until I fall flat on my a**, admit total defeat and decide that complete sobriety is the only answer. Message received loud and clear, guys. So I won't be posting any progress reports here about moderation. I did find another forum where it's a little different and alternate views are tolerated. I will be checking in there and posting there without fear of negative consequences.
Please understand I'm not saying I have figured it all out. I'm not "cured." I'm not even saying I'm convinced moderation is the right thing for me. I am just exploring the options at this point. Enough said about that. I hope that makes sense. And I'm not trying to argue for this or that --- I'm just sharing my feelings and experiences honestly, which I thought was the point of forums like this.
I'm actually proud of the progress I have made since June 21st since I joined. I'm alcohol free most of the time and things are going well. I think some of you may recall what state I was in when I joined.
Well ... I need 5 posts under my new name to be able to send PMs. I'll get there, but I won't be posting about my situation for a while. Thanks so much.
"real Laura"
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,942
When I had to pay attention to controling my drinking, it wasn't any fun anymore.
When I didn't pay attention, and my drinking got out of control, it wasn't any fun anymore.
I'd recommend everyone do whatever they consider 'fun', be the person you want to be.
When I didn't pay attention, and my drinking got out of control, it wasn't any fun anymore.
I'd recommend everyone do whatever they consider 'fun', be the person you want to be.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
It wouldn't be impossible for me to do the same. I could go out and have a drink.. maybe not drink for a few days, a week or two. Then go out again, and have just one drink.. I could physically do it, it would be possible. That does NOT mean I don't have a serious problem with alcohol.
As soon as I felt a little success, it would only encourage me (rationalization) that I didn't have a problem, for one.. which is ridiculous, and for 2, I would start thinking right away about 'next time'. That next drink, even a week away. I would obsess and think about it. I would romantically sit with it and think how good it tasted, how warm the buzz felt, it would totally and completely consume my thoughts. Then maybe next week I'd have another, hell make it two, i did so "good" last time. AH success, now back to obsessing, dreaming, wishing I could just maybe do it again sooner, a little more,... one more glass for and extra buzz. Wow.. that obsession would take up a lot of my brain space, and that to me is about as mentally unfit as the actual drinking.
It wouldn't be long until I finally thought "hell if you're gonna drink, DRINK! Make it worth it!" and here'd I'd be again, shameful, regretting what I'd done, posting here about drinking instead of just 'moderating'.. or not, maybe I wouldn't come back. Maybe I'd drink myself to death, I have no idea.
All I do know is that I have way too much other **** in my life to think about and put energy towards than my drinking, moderating, obsessing, planning, rationalizing, and denying that it's even a problem. See, one of the benefits of sobriety, is ALL of that goes away, and I can fully give of myself to the rest of my life.
I hope moderation works for you, there is a moderation management program out there (might not want to dig too deep into it though, there's supposedly some scary stuff goin on over there), but even they.. recommend at least 30 days sober to start. They might have some message boards that would be more encouraging to your 'plan'.. who knows.
Good luck!
As soon as I felt a little success, it would only encourage me (rationalization) that I didn't have a problem, for one.. which is ridiculous, and for 2, I would start thinking right away about 'next time'. That next drink, even a week away. I would obsess and think about it. I would romantically sit with it and think how good it tasted, how warm the buzz felt, it would totally and completely consume my thoughts. Then maybe next week I'd have another, hell make it two, i did so "good" last time. AH success, now back to obsessing, dreaming, wishing I could just maybe do it again sooner, a little more,... one more glass for and extra buzz. Wow.. that obsession would take up a lot of my brain space, and that to me is about as mentally unfit as the actual drinking.
It wouldn't be long until I finally thought "hell if you're gonna drink, DRINK! Make it worth it!" and here'd I'd be again, shameful, regretting what I'd done, posting here about drinking instead of just 'moderating'.. or not, maybe I wouldn't come back. Maybe I'd drink myself to death, I have no idea.
All I do know is that I have way too much other **** in my life to think about and put energy towards than my drinking, moderating, obsessing, planning, rationalizing, and denying that it's even a problem. See, one of the benefits of sobriety, is ALL of that goes away, and I can fully give of myself to the rest of my life.
I hope moderation works for you, there is a moderation management program out there (might not want to dig too deep into it though, there's supposedly some scary stuff goin on over there), but even they.. recommend at least 30 days sober to start. They might have some message boards that would be more encouraging to your 'plan'.. who knows.
Good luck!
Focus
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 206
Everyone here is so helpful, yet some may wonder:
Why do people still come here trying to find an answer? It isn't the purpose of this forum afterall.
My husband drank heavily during college. People here would have said he had a major problem. People here probably would have called him an alcoholic...maybe? He spent every night nearly at the bar getting 'wasted' with his friends for 2 years. He is older now and he doesn't even like alcohol. Occasionally, he will have a beer (VERY occasionally - maybe once every 3 weeks... 1 beer). He says even that (done socially) he has to choke down... and often nurses it for 2 hours or so.
I guess my point is that if someone shows up at sr.com, many on the forum assume they are an alcoholic.
Some people here seem to take the view that if you can convince someone they are an alcoholic...even if they aren't... no harm done. This is why I feel some answers exhibit great bias. Now, I'm starting to think that no matter what is best for some... and no matter what kind of drinker someone is... they may not accept an answer that they didn't want to hear.
But fact of the matter is... Laura may just be... gasp... A normal drinker :-O
Why do people still come here trying to find an answer? It isn't the purpose of this forum afterall.
My husband drank heavily during college. People here would have said he had a major problem. People here probably would have called him an alcoholic...maybe? He spent every night nearly at the bar getting 'wasted' with his friends for 2 years. He is older now and he doesn't even like alcohol. Occasionally, he will have a beer (VERY occasionally - maybe once every 3 weeks... 1 beer). He says even that (done socially) he has to choke down... and often nurses it for 2 hours or so.
I guess my point is that if someone shows up at sr.com, many on the forum assume they are an alcoholic.
Some people here seem to take the view that if you can convince someone they are an alcoholic...even if they aren't... no harm done. This is why I feel some answers exhibit great bias. Now, I'm starting to think that no matter what is best for some... and no matter what kind of drinker someone is... they may not accept an answer that they didn't want to hear.
But fact of the matter is... Laura may just be... gasp... A normal drinker :-O
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
I actually think we as a group try very hard to assume nothing and not to diagnose, K.
I know all I can do is respond as honestly and helpfully as I can, using my experience, to what people post.
I might be wrong - two of us might be. But all of us?
Dunno.
D
I know all I can do is respond as honestly and helpfully as I can, using my experience, to what people post.
I might be wrong - two of us might be. But all of us?
Dunno.
D
Your Distant Friend
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 255
Me in 2007 to my AA sponsor:
"I dont' think i'm an alcohlic."
My AA sponsor replies "maybe you
aren't. Maube you should try some
controlled drinking."
and, That's what I did.
2 years later I *knew* I had a problem.
I had to lose a lot more money, possessions,
a very special and magical romantic relationship,
attempt a couple suicide missions,
and. Ton of lost time with my daughter,
Stress from my parents about that, etc.
My perspective today is that
Any alcoholic in denial may say "I don't think I'm an alcohlic"
And from my experience (with AA and other recovery methods),
And in accordance with the AA literature,
Nothing is gonna stop us from having to really find this out
on their own.
Its like a fortune cookie I once got:
Good Judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from Bad Judgment.
We all could be right, wrong, it won't help
an alcohlic to argue the very nature of what they are,
That's more fuel to burn at the bar.
And if the controlling drinking doesn't bring a person
back in the rooms, on the forums, they are probably
not an alcoholic afterall. Its a serious diagnosis,
and second or third opinions will either reinforce,
or deny, the presence of alcohlism.
For this particular illness, the second opinions
Sort of have to be made from trying some
controlled drinking. A psychoanalyst or talk therapy
professional might help bring it all into a clear perspective.
After all my denial self propulsion and relapses,
Wreckage and so forth, I have realized that
things fell apart so that they could be pieced
together in better way, even though I thought that nothing
could be worse, than everything falling apart.
Turns out I am better able to understand my illness
and help others as a result of doing this, and my life
is a better happiness than I ever knew before.
"I dont' think i'm an alcohlic."
My AA sponsor replies "maybe you
aren't. Maube you should try some
controlled drinking."
and, That's what I did.
2 years later I *knew* I had a problem.
I had to lose a lot more money, possessions,
a very special and magical romantic relationship,
attempt a couple suicide missions,
and. Ton of lost time with my daughter,
Stress from my parents about that, etc.
My perspective today is that
Any alcoholic in denial may say "I don't think I'm an alcohlic"
And from my experience (with AA and other recovery methods),
And in accordance with the AA literature,
Nothing is gonna stop us from having to really find this out
on their own.
Its like a fortune cookie I once got:
Good Judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from Bad Judgment.
We all could be right, wrong, it won't help
an alcohlic to argue the very nature of what they are,
That's more fuel to burn at the bar.
And if the controlling drinking doesn't bring a person
back in the rooms, on the forums, they are probably
not an alcoholic afterall. Its a serious diagnosis,
and second or third opinions will either reinforce,
or deny, the presence of alcohlism.
For this particular illness, the second opinions
Sort of have to be made from trying some
controlled drinking. A psychoanalyst or talk therapy
professional might help bring it all into a clear perspective.
After all my denial self propulsion and relapses,
Wreckage and so forth, I have realized that
things fell apart so that they could be pieced
together in better way, even though I thought that nothing
could be worse, than everything falling apart.
Turns out I am better able to understand my illness
and help others as a result of doing this, and my life
is a better happiness than I ever knew before.
Not all better, getting better
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Beautiful Inner Banks of NC
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by hopeful999
Guys, thanks so much. I actually don't think I belong here and am trying to disable my account (as soon as I can figure out how to do that). Many,many of you have been very helpful here, so I want to thank you for that. I think there is another forum that may be more appropriate for me and I'm going to give it a try.
Best to you all.
Laura
Best to you all.
Laura
You can lurk, go away for awhile, but "the family" will always be here for you. Take care.
Focus
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Dee74
I actually think we as a group try very hard to assume nothing and not to diagnose, K.
I know all I can do is respond as honestly and helpfully as I can, using my experience, to what people post.
I might be wrong - two of us might be. But all of us?
Dunno.
D
I know all I can do is respond as honestly and helpfully as I can, using my experience, to what people post.
I might be wrong - two of us might be. But all of us?
Dunno.
D
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