I have a problem.........
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
I have a problem.........
AA suggests attraction, not promotion.
I have been in commission sales for nearly 30 yrs.
Soooo, ya might just say, I'm a promoter.......LOL!
Add to that, I really believe AA has not only saved my life, but given me the spiritual tools to build an entirely new & different life.
I struggle with not being in the promoter mode here @ SR @ times.
I'd like to apologize to each and everyone of you who I may have offended at any point.
I'm a passionate man about many things, recovery being one of them.
That certainly is no excuse however to push my feelings or AA on anybody.
I can only hope to those I may have offended you will forgive my approach in the past.
I am committed to being very aware of this and striving to not repeat moving forward.
Thank you,
Thomas
I have been in commission sales for nearly 30 yrs.
Soooo, ya might just say, I'm a promoter.......LOL!
Add to that, I really believe AA has not only saved my life, but given me the spiritual tools to build an entirely new & different life.
I struggle with not being in the promoter mode here @ SR @ times.
I'd like to apologize to each and everyone of you who I may have offended at any point.
I'm a passionate man about many things, recovery being one of them.
That certainly is no excuse however to push my feelings or AA on anybody.
I can only hope to those I may have offended you will forgive my approach in the past.
I am committed to being very aware of this and striving to not repeat moving forward.
Thank you,
Thomas
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,051
You crack me up Thomas, is this an amends? 
When I registered on SR way back in 2006 I think I had a beef with one of your threads, I'm just being rigorously honest, OK?
So what did I do about that? I went home and looked in the mirror, and the problem was staring back at me. It wasn't your thread I had a beef with, it was my perception of your thread.
I suffer from that diseased perception pretty often. Thankfully, I can come to SR and learn from people such as yourself who are passionate about AA and recovery, and I can go to sleep every night without taking a drink.
For that, I'm pretty darn grateful
When I registered on SR way back in 2006 I think I had a beef with one of your threads, I'm just being rigorously honest, OK?
So what did I do about that? I went home and looked in the mirror, and the problem was staring back at me. It wasn't your thread I had a beef with, it was my perception of your thread.
I suffer from that diseased perception pretty often. Thankfully, I can come to SR and learn from people such as yourself who are passionate about AA and recovery, and I can go to sleep every night without taking a drink.
For that, I'm pretty darn grateful
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,942
There is a very fine thin line between attraction and promotion of AA.
In my opinion we attract people who do not want to drink, but we DO NOT promote the notion that everyone on the planet should quit drinking.
We do not go into bars and places where people CHOOSE to drink and expound upon the dangers and downside of alcohol.
In other words - for me - AA does not promote abstinence from alcohol for all people, AA attracts people who desire to abstain from using alcohol.
Do you have a problem? If you have a problem... come to AA.
(If you don't have a problem with alcohol then carry on, have fun!)
In my opinion we attract people who do not want to drink, but we DO NOT promote the notion that everyone on the planet should quit drinking.
We do not go into bars and places where people CHOOSE to drink and expound upon the dangers and downside of alcohol.
In other words - for me - AA does not promote abstinence from alcohol for all people, AA attracts people who desire to abstain from using alcohol.
Do you have a problem? If you have a problem... come to AA.
(If you don't have a problem with alcohol then carry on, have fun!)
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE and then South some more
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by Astro 
You crack me up Thomas, is this an amends?
Beating this demon for GOOD
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 143
Thomas
I'm a "newbie" around here and already I've enjoyed every post that I've read by you!!! I think you have a lot of wisdom from what I can see, and I haven't perceived any of what you've written as "promotion" in anyway. I see how many people AA has helped everyday at every meeting that I go to when zillions of hands go up when folks are asked for a show of hands to show how many have one year of more of sobriety under their belts! If that's a "bad" thing, I'll gladly take it!!! lol!!!
God bless!!
God bless!!
Not all better, getting better
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Beautiful Inner Banks of NC
Posts: 1,702
Thomas, you've been around about the same amount of time as I have, though I have to say the QUALITY of your time is far superior!! As you know I've always been quite presistant about wanting my recovery secular as opposed to the 12-step variety. We've probably sparred a time or two over this, but I want you to know that I have always, and continue to respect you and your opinions. I've always felt that whatever you have said and shared has been in the name of love and the hope of helping another. Keep it up!!
BTW, don't fall off your bike, but I'm really starting to come around to the 12-step way of thinking. I still believe that AA is not the only way, but I'm starting to believe it may really be the way I need. What can I say, I gotta hard head, only took about 7 years of beating on it to start to get through!!
BTW, don't fall off your bike, but I'm really starting to come around to the 12-step way of thinking. I still believe that AA is not the only way, but I'm starting to believe it may really be the way I need. What can I say, I gotta hard head, only took about 7 years of beating on it to start to get through!!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 285
Thanks for your post. This is an interesting topic. I think tommy is pretty much right. AA is about attracting people to the program through their track record--they are not out actively promoting AA, advertising or sitting outside a bar trying to save people or some nonsense. I think this comes from the knowlege we have as alcoholics, or addicts; at least for me, I needed to make the decision it was time for me to try AA and little anyone said made a big difference. It is a very personal thing and the best we can do for those we want to help is to lead by example.
However, if someone asks us for help but is adamant about not wanting to do AA for whatever reason, I think is our responsibility to try to show them that it is in their best interest to give it to try--ultimately it is still their decision. I know I sure didn't want anything to do with AA at first and if wasn't for some great people nudging me strongly into the program I don't think I would be sober today. But I was only open to direction into AA once I already had made the decision that I wanted to quit drinking--trying to convince me before that was always fruitless. I think that is the point: AA does not promote an abstinent lifestyle, but if someone has a desire to stop drinking, promotion of the AA program on an interpersonal level is appropriate.
However, if someone asks us for help but is adamant about not wanting to do AA for whatever reason, I think is our responsibility to try to show them that it is in their best interest to give it to try--ultimately it is still their decision. I know I sure didn't want anything to do with AA at first and if wasn't for some great people nudging me strongly into the program I don't think I would be sober today. But I was only open to direction into AA once I already had made the decision that I wanted to quit drinking--trying to convince me before that was always fruitless. I think that is the point: AA does not promote an abstinent lifestyle, but if someone has a desire to stop drinking, promotion of the AA program on an interpersonal level is appropriate.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
To each & everyone of you, thank you!
Astro, yes.........lol.....love the comment about my perception, SO true! I have not, as of yet, spent much time trying to figure out which post that was......but......
Tyler, thank you for your kindness. I too have been slow, in old character, to take direction & have the willingness to be willing.
Most recently, I can not recall a time when I did not listen to my sponsor & do as suggested. Even when I was not keen on it. This is huge for me.
What continues to help me is an understooding (not understanding, which implies I fully understand, lol) of what I'm up against.
How the disease of alcoholism mainfests itself in my life. The never enough, disatisified, fault finding, can't be happy mind. It's progressive.
How ego is such a powerful force. Less than, or greater than, never equal to. Separation from. Separation from a Higher Power. When I think I know best, that suggests to me I know better than God. All ego.
How the authority of self plays out & self obsession. Self does not reveal self, to self w/o an outside force. Professional athletes need a coach. So do I, and I am not the coach. My God is.....
The greatest battle I'll ever face the battle between self will & God's will.
If I could only remember any of this most of the time......
Spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection.
Astro, yes.........lol.....love the comment about my perception, SO true! I have not, as of yet, spent much time trying to figure out which post that was......but......
Tyler, thank you for your kindness. I too have been slow, in old character, to take direction & have the willingness to be willing.
Most recently, I can not recall a time when I did not listen to my sponsor & do as suggested. Even when I was not keen on it. This is huge for me.
What continues to help me is an understooding (not understanding, which implies I fully understand, lol) of what I'm up against.
How the disease of alcoholism mainfests itself in my life. The never enough, disatisified, fault finding, can't be happy mind. It's progressive.
How ego is such a powerful force. Less than, or greater than, never equal to. Separation from. Separation from a Higher Power. When I think I know best, that suggests to me I know better than God. All ego.
How the authority of self plays out & self obsession. Self does not reveal self, to self w/o an outside force. Professional athletes need a coach. So do I, and I am not the coach. My God is.....
The greatest battle I'll ever face the battle between self will & God's will.
If I could only remember any of this most of the time......
Spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,051
I found it enlightening to go back and read through this entire thread, Thomas http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...g-sponsor.html I was mistaken, you weren't the original poster. And in going back and reading through that post, it seems that I was very passionate about my views!
I've changed a lot in the last few years. At least I hope so since I've got that much more recovery under my belt. Reading that post again actually made me feel a little uncomfortable
I've changed a lot in the last few years. At least I hope so since I've got that much more recovery under my belt. Reading that post again actually made me feel a little uncomfortable
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,051
We will not regret the past (including what we've posted) nor wish to shut the door on it!
Actually, I notice much more compassion and acceptance in your current posts. And I still appreciate them for the wisdom they contain.
Actually, I notice much more compassion and acceptance in your current posts. And I still appreciate them for the wisdom they contain.
Not all better, getting better
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Beautiful Inner Banks of NC
Posts: 1,702
I'm quite sure I'm afraid to go back and read some of my older posts!! While I still have a long way to go, I've definately found more peace in my life. I no longer have the need to always be right and argue for the sake of arguing. I guess that is what is called progress!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,279
I have read your posts & could feel your passion about it. Its is always quite clear that you have the best of intentions & are trying to help people by sharing what has worked for you.
As long as we all understand & respect each other then we are all good, sometimes we all need a little kick in the butt or should I say direction
As long as we all understand & respect each other then we are all good, sometimes we all need a little kick in the butt or should I say direction
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Thomas, I have no idea what post of yours one could view as "Promoting" AA, did you run an ad?
I was on fire when I first showed up here, I had not been sober that long, I had tried everything (So I thought) to stay stopped drinking and what finally worked for me was AA. I was concinced when I first came here that one could not be REALLY sober unless they were in AA and working a good program and I let folks know it!!! I probably did more harm then good early on!
I have learned a lot here, I have learned that there are other programs that work and that some people have found recovery through SR & reading recovery literature and are doing very well.
When any one of us share here we are sharing our personal Experience, Strength, & Hope most of the time. Sometimes we share our opinions based upon our ES&H or make suggestions based upon our ES&H.
The above being said, if AA is our program of recovery then what else can we share but what has worked for us? Where does our ES&H in recovery come from?
If I had found recovery using SMART or what ever I would be sharing my ES&H based upon my SMART recovery.
Sharing our ES&H is not promoting using AA, if we have good recovery that is reflected in our posting our ES&H using AA that might make AA "attractive to somone one else, even if it does not make AA attractive to them, it could still have been helpful to some one.
The one thing that will make AA unattractive is bashing another program of recovery, why in the world would one want to bash any program that works for even one person? Bill W. & Dr. Bob both openly admitted that the program of AA did not work for every alcoholic and both continued to seek other ways that other alcoholics could use to recover right up until the day they died.
I was on fire when I first showed up here, I had not been sober that long, I had tried everything (So I thought) to stay stopped drinking and what finally worked for me was AA. I was concinced when I first came here that one could not be REALLY sober unless they were in AA and working a good program and I let folks know it!!! I probably did more harm then good early on!
I have learned a lot here, I have learned that there are other programs that work and that some people have found recovery through SR & reading recovery literature and are doing very well.
When any one of us share here we are sharing our personal Experience, Strength, & Hope most of the time. Sometimes we share our opinions based upon our ES&H or make suggestions based upon our ES&H.
The above being said, if AA is our program of recovery then what else can we share but what has worked for us? Where does our ES&H in recovery come from?
If I had found recovery using SMART or what ever I would be sharing my ES&H based upon my SMART recovery.
Sharing our ES&H is not promoting using AA, if we have good recovery that is reflected in our posting our ES&H using AA that might make AA "attractive to somone one else, even if it does not make AA attractive to them, it could still have been helpful to some one.
The one thing that will make AA unattractive is bashing another program of recovery, why in the world would one want to bash any program that works for even one person? Bill W. & Dr. Bob both openly admitted that the program of AA did not work for every alcoholic and both continued to seek other ways that other alcoholics could use to recover right up until the day they died.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: in France
Posts: 393
Hi Thomas
i don't know for what post or who exactly you are apologizing to but i just wanted to say:
I want to be sober and will use any methods/ideas to do so.
I really like a lot of the tools on SMART and find them really useful.
However i sometimes feel that on their own they can be so sensible and a little lacking in passion.
Among others the people on SR who have been so supportive and kind in my recovery have been passionate aa members like you, Tazman and Dime . To all of you i am very grateful for the help and support you have given me.
I'm not an aaer as such but certainly don't see any reason to bash it.
You've certainly never said anything that offended me. Quite the opposite you've always been very helpful.
i agree with an earlier post that what makes SR so helpful is the variety among the members. As long as we all respect each other what's wrong with having varying ways to get to the same goal?
Please keep posting and giving us your advice-and i'm going to try to get out on my bike more!
i don't know for what post or who exactly you are apologizing to but i just wanted to say:
I want to be sober and will use any methods/ideas to do so.
I really like a lot of the tools on SMART and find them really useful.
However i sometimes feel that on their own they can be so sensible and a little lacking in passion.
Among others the people on SR who have been so supportive and kind in my recovery have been passionate aa members like you, Tazman and Dime . To all of you i am very grateful for the help and support you have given me.
I'm not an aaer as such but certainly don't see any reason to bash it.
You've certainly never said anything that offended me. Quite the opposite you've always been very helpful.
i agree with an earlier post that what makes SR so helpful is the variety among the members. As long as we all respect each other what's wrong with having varying ways to get to the same goal?
Please keep posting and giving us your advice-and i'm going to try to get out on my bike more!
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