Jimba

I agree all those things are nesscary to determine what you are or need. Dr.s 12 step etc. unfortunatly like some in this thread have suggested you do drugs your drug addict, these attitudes come from far to many senior veterans of the na species and health professionals alike.

Sorry for some of the dissemblance I am posting in transit with tv phone.

Jimba

And I guess part of my point is when you are pshysical addicted and you are stuck with the feelings produced by that state or the state of detox the truth is confusing and just say no doesn't really make much since, until you get to the other side. Your on the up swing it is very easy to say, but to do it is something else completely, especialy if just say no doesn't get you anywhere but sober. Because who wants sobriety without joy contentment and serinity. I'd rather be numb. I guess that's a little off course but...

Mark75

Right... And as I understand some of what's been said around here is that joy, contentment and serenity is, of course, what recovery is all about.

But what I understand about what you are saying is.... that once a person who is addicted to drugs, gets through detox/withdrawal and has serenity and does not crave or obsesses over the drug, then that person is not an addict...

Do I have it right ??

That's what I'm saying...

Mark

christin1225

Christin has been out of the posting on this for a little bit because Christin is really pissed off that she's an addict and it's not having a real positive affect on my life right now.

I received a PM regarding this topic and I would like to share part of the reply because I think that it has something to add to the position that not all those addicted are addicts (and I don't have a whole lot of time to do anything else because I have to figure out "what next" and, at this moment, I'm really starting to understand the last five minutes of an NA meeting, the time set aside for "burning desires", for those who may feel like they want to use or hurt someone or hurt themself. I'm feeling all of those things right now. I'm so, so frustrated!!!


I don't think that anyone would argue that individuals who have become addicted "due to medical reasons" are addicts. They are physically dependent on their medication. Period.

I'm saying that there are those who become addicted because they have played with fire and have been burned or maybe they have self-medicated for things such as depression and anxiety and have become addicted. In other words, there are those individuals who have become addicted because they have ABUSED illegal or prescribed drugs, yet still they may not necessarily be ADDICTS. They simply (or not so simply) played with fire (drugs) and got burned (addicted).

This position was confirmed for me when I attended IOP with a nurse who had become addicted because she was ingesting and then shooting narcotic pain medicines. Little surprise that she got hooked (but many of us know how alluring the high can be). She foolishly had thought that she could play with narcotics and stop before it was too late. Since getting caught, she has detoxed, has not had a single thought or dream about using, has had no cravings, and just wants to make amends for her mistake and get back to her life.

I sat in group with her, along with other addicts. She listened in group and she even shared. Her empathy was wonderful. She was compassionate and had a personal appreciation for being dope sick. However, when matters of obsessive thinking and the compulsion to use came up, she sat there with a blank expression. She didn't have a clue. Because of the drug use, her work required her to attend IOP and NA/AA for three months if she wanted to receive her license back. From what I heard her share in group, I sincerely believe that if she were to stop attending meetings after three months, she wouldn't relapse. Detox is sufficient treatment for someone who is not an addict. On the other hand, if an addict were to stop there, the chance of success would be bleak.

christin1225

Mark,

WHY don't I read your posts before I write mine??? This is EXACTLY it! How many words was that... one, two, three....forty-two? Wow! Thanks.

If an addict "...gets through detox/withdrawal and never works a program, if he stays clean it's by "white-knuckling" it. He doesn't have serenity.

Mark75

Thanx...

I don't have a significantly dissimilar story to the nurse you described. My experience diverges, though, because I became an alcoholic...

I agree absolutely, completely, positively, well... you get the idea, thanx for your thoughtful reply and posts in this thread. I hope christin is better now.

Mark

Add... I saw your second post after I posted this!

nocoincidence56

"Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason--ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor--becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker: but may at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink." BB pgs 20-21

I remember from NA that alcohol is a drug...

Jimba

No what I am saying is that drug addiction has many causes, the blanket statement or label diminishes the individuals struggle, those that have continuing cravings and can't just walk away more than likely have (guestimate) 80% have underlying medical conditions. They don't just like drugs a lot. On the other hand I can walk away not have a craving, can come home and have a beer be happy yet have a tendancy to abuse mind altering chemical every 6 to 10 years usualy lasts about 6 month then I'm done. So I don't have cravings after detox and can be happy I may need a program and be what AA or NA define as an addict. Maybe the same for you have you asked why twice you forgot how much physical addiction sucked or maybe you had an injury, I don't. But bottom line is I think those with the compulsion are more likely to have a medical condition such as post tramatic stress syndrom or you name it manic depression drug use actually causes these diseases in some I have read.

Christin has brought much light to me and I thank you for that.

Jimba

Christin if you don't mind me asking since your habit began, how many times have you been totaly detoxed. I guess a better question is your longest period of abstinence and how long has it been since you first started using on a regular basis?

Mark75

So what you are getting at is, essentially, what is it that causes the compulsion. So if the compulsion is driven by, say anxiety, remove the anxiety, compulsion goes away, non-addict?? The addicted individual was, then, self medicating.

If the compulsion has no cause, no illness, and the compulsion is driven only for the euphoria the drug produces... addict?

I get this... Then the challenge is to sort out what drives the compulsion... and how would you really know in some cases... Lines could get very blurry here...

But maybe your message is... When evaluating an addicted person, correct any underlying illness, physical or emotional, then see if there is still compulsive behavior???

Mark

Jimba

Yeah, I think these are things we all have to consider and get over looked by a lot of us. Even Dr.s and Phyc.s seem to miss this. My Dr. told me last week that he didn't like me at first and now he thinks I'm a great guy. I said why, he told me "I thought you were just some drug addict." which is the last thing you would think if you saw or spoke with me. I felt this shame like never before. Always been proud of my use and took full responsibility, never blamed it on my mom or my genetics or my friends peer pressure. My choice I made its mine including the pain. Maybe it was more than a choice maybe it was a tendency due other factors which nonusers either avoid or enjoy their absence.